Sente: The Politics and Metaphor of Stones
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 33 | 25 COMMENTS | 4186 VIEWS | IN 6 FOLDERS
precociousapprentice says... #2
I like Torment of Hailfire well enough. One way or another, it is pretty punishing. There are a lot of token decks in my meta, and it is not the best at punishing them. I find Choice of Damnations to be very underwhelming. I frequently find it ends up being an inefficient damage spell at somewhere between 6-10 single target player damage. An Exsanguinate is often better in both of those slots, especially in decks that like to extend the game.
As for a lot of those enchantments, I have a hard time introducing even light stax into my meta. This deck as is has made people balk, and this is even less stax-y than yours. I have to work in ways that punish deck archetypes, but still allow people to play their decks. That is the beauty of Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control. Everyone gets to play their deck out, people fall one at a time, and then someone faces off against Marchesa. About 80% of the time, she scrapes out a win, and everyone seems to think it is a plain lucky win that happened because everyone just handed it to me. Little do they know that it is because I have engineered a board state that very subtly supports that outcome. Stax tends to make games unfun for my friends. I have to go very light on stax, and then make my stax-esque pieces avoidable if they just don't attack me. That is sort of my goal here as well.
I am thinking about my endgame tactics after a few games. Bloodchief Ascension and Zur's Weirding are cool together, and gives very strong control, but it is slow, and people seem to hate Zur's Weirding. I am thinking about strengthening the Paradox Engine combo, adding some specific hate for common deck archetypes that synergize with the rest of the deck, and then adding a few bomb finishers that are good for control decks. At this point, I am thinking:
Man-o'-War -> Unwinding Clock Take out a duplicate bounce and add to the power of the mana rock suite. And that artwork is amazing. Need it in foil. May go further and add Vedalken Orrery for playing on other people's turns. A sort of ad hoc semi-Prophet of Kruphix.
Tidehollow Strix -> Aven Mindcensor This would hate on anyone with too many tutors and fetches, and specifically slows combo decks. If this works well, I may add Mindlock Orb. If I do this, fetches and other tutors will be removed. Which may increase the need for my next change.
Clutch of the Undercity -> Lim-Dul's Vault Removal of a bad tutor for a not-really-tutor, to help get around Mindlock Orb. If this change happens, then possibly will need to remove Expedition Map for the same reason. Cards with alternate uses besides tutoring could stay.
Not sure how, but would like to add Energy Field and Rest in Peace, possibly some other pillow fort cards. I find Pillow Fort to be incredibly political. Maybe exchange Merieke Ri Berit for Zur the Enchanter, and may rework my utility creatures, planning to help speed up my Pillow Fort. This may conflict with Mindlock Orb. Not sure what is working and what is not.
Cultivator's Caravan -> A different mana rock. I can only crew this with Sen Triplets, an enemy creature I steal, or multiple creatures, unless my utility creatures get bigger. May trial this for a bit longer. Enemy creatures may become my mainstay for crewing this, but I have a feeling that this is less than optimal. I am considering Chrome Mox in this slot, or Grim Monolith. Either that or a finisher like Sun Titan or Consecrated Sphinx to get value and fill that finisher spot as well.
Wash Out -> Another mass bounce or straight board wipe spell. Stealing creatures to bounce them back to their owners' hands is not cool. This would work better in a different deck. Still, I need mass control.
Artifact lands -> Basics. Artifact hate may become too much for me to withstand. Need a balance.
Annyway, after some more play testing, I think I am narrowing in on the interesting style of control you can get in a Sen Triplets deck. It has been fun so far.
December 20, 2017 4:54 p.m. Edited.
precociousapprentice says... #3
Holy cow! This deck can be surprisingly aggressive! With the unsummon effects, it can end up taking control of the early game, smashing face, and leaving people really hurting before they can consolidate. I really wasn't expecting how aggressive you can get with an Esper control list. All stars in my most recent game were Equilibrium and Venser, Shaper Savant. I had already basically controlled the board by that time with Aven Mindcensor, Jace's Archivist, and Indomitable Archangel, leaving a path clear with Equilibrium to lay the early beats, but brining in Venser, Shaper Savant let me completely control the board and continue the creature dominance. It was a very interesting aggro/tempo beatdown. When I started tapping Jace's Archivist to dump a full hand of bounced enemy creatures to the graveyard and replace them with a full hand of lands I could steal to cast my opponents' other creatures in hand, it was all over. This is my first real tempo deck. It feels both very aggressive and very controlling. I sat on a bunch of mana rocks and a Paradox Engine because I was dominating without it, and I didn't want to either abandon my strategy that was working or overextend into two separate strategies.
I think that this tempo strategy may end up being more powerful than I thought, and could end up being subtle and overlooked. It brings a ton of flexibility to the deck, and allows me to switch gears from combo/control when this strategy will be better. I think it may have the ability to own both aggro and midrange decks, since the tempo plays allow for games that the deck is effectively much faster than it appears, because the other decks are always being put back a step with each step of this deck. There were several points were it felt like my play had retroactively reversed the turn order or even felt like Time Walks. I am hoping that the Aven Mindcensor and the amount of bounce/steal and counter/control is enough to handle control and combo decks. If so, I feel like this could end up being a solid 80% deck, competitive and fun against every deck archetype, and exactly where I want to be.
December 23, 2017 1 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #4
More testing and some ideas for new cards to trial.
Reins of Power -> Orim's Chant: Lower casting cost Fog that can sort of double as a not-Time Walk. After the feeling I got from my most recent games, I may continue the theme of making other people's turns not matter, giving me a not-Time Walk. Also, this fits onto Isochron Scepter. We will see if the Fog effect is more potent than getting all opponents with Silence, but that is another consideration.
Sun Titan -> Shimmer Myr: The Titan can be a bomb, but the surprise flash of the Myr followed by either Sen Triplets or Paradox Engine can be at least as solid of a play, and another early beater could enhance that aggression that I was able to bring with the small creatures and Unsummon effects.
Snapcaster Mage -> Windfall: Snappy has been somewhat underwhelming. With how well Jace's Archivist played, I thought I would try Windfall. I see this picking me up some lands from opponents, maybe get rid of a problem permanent or two after I have Unsummoned them, and making those Unsummon effects less likely to be card disadvantage, since a card in their hand turns into an extra card in my hand.
This is turning into an interesting experiment. I am going with what the cards and results of play give me, and it seems to be taking me in directions I was not expecting. Definitely having fun with this commander.
December 24, 2017 5:17 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #5
Just got a Mana Drain. I needed to pick up an Iconic Masters Mana Drain, and I guess this is probably the best place for it. I think I will replace Chain of Vapor. This is the least useful of the Unsummon effects in the deck. Counter and ramp. Gotta be good.
December 24, 2017 10:23 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #6
Decided to see if ditching the two slow wincons would hurt things. I had not actually won with either, and Thopter Spy Network had not really done anything for me. At least Mechanized Production was dependable ramp, but a 7 turn clock is pretty weak.
Mechanized Production -> Aura of Silence: Plan is to get some removal that comes with the ability to slow down opponent mana rocks. This should both slow their game and potentially leave some rocks in their hands for me to steal. We shall see.
Thopter Spy Network -> Sunder: MLD is often frowned on, but this is soft MLD. The fact that I could potentially steal some lands or Windfall/Jace's Archivist them away permanently is just gravy, and this will hopefully be asymmetric given all my rocks.
December 24, 2017 10:52 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #7
Updated the land base. I decided that more any-colored lands would be helpful, and that I often find that the lands are pretty unhelpful, and could almost be colorless lands. I added a bunch of any-colored lands and trilands.
December 25, 2017 11:59 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #8
After multiple test games, I have come to realize that this deck wins as often by mill as anything, unless I mill myself. With that in mind, I have removed a card that has been less than useful and which has actually made several instances of a likely mill win into a mill loss.
Baleful Strix -> Phenax, God of Deception: With Phenax in play, a Paradox Engine loop becomes a relatively easy mill, the beater body is nice, and indestructible is always nice.
December 25, 2017 3:07 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #9
Strangely enough. I am finding that Dissipation Field is underperforming. It is too passive and doesn't set anything up. It is also very redundant bounce. I have also found that Muddle the Mixture has some interesting targets, but when the combo goes off, it is less than useful, with few truly important targets.
Dissipation Field -> Diviner's Wand: This adds both card draw and a voltron strategy. The card draw is expensive, but it makes Sen Triplets or any other wizard (creature for that matter) into a pseudo-Thrasios, Triton Hero.
Muddle the Mixture -> Trophy Mage: There are some key CMC artifacts in the deck. All the CMC mana rocks are pretty key. Shimmer Myr lets us drop Sen Triplets EOT before we untap, minimizing the chance that it gets removed. Proteus Staff is the start to an important creature cycle, and the Trophy Mage gives us fodder for this cycle. We will have to see how it turns our, but Diviner's Wand could turn out to be a player as well. All of these are important aspects of how the deck should play.
December 25, 2017 11:50 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #10
Some more changes.
Equilibrium -> Muzzio, Visionary Architect: I want to incorporate multiple bounce elements, but not make them totally oppressive. Equilibrium also needs creatures, and is a dead draw at times. Turns out that Words of Wind is a much stronger card for this deck, since drawing a card is a more common event than playing a creature, and the ability to bounce permanents of all types and from every player is much more pertinent than just a creature from one player. Muzzio is a nice Dig card, and will most commonly be ramp when I get to pull out and play a mana rock. It will also work toward the overwhelming position of rocks plus Paradox Engine. It should have a similar feel to Proteus Staff.
Vedalken Orrery -> Baleful Strix: Vedalken Orrery has the same cost as Leyline of Anticipation but without the first turn cheat and with a more vulnerable card type. It is more expensive than Shimmer Myr, and while more versatile, we only really need flash to avoid hate on Sen Triplets. The Orrery does not have Flash itself, which is pretty clutch when you drop the Myr and Sen Triplets out of nowhere EOT before you untap and control someone's mind. Vedalken Orrery seems a little redundant for a card that does nothing by itself. At least Myr can attack or block. Baleful Strix is a nice little artifact blocker with some extra draw value, and adds to both offense and defense.
Illusionist's Gambit -> Tidehollow Strix: I really wanted to like the Gambit. It was even very evocative given my Go analogy. It has just seemed less pertinent than I had thought. I may try to work this back in, but for now, the addition of a body, especially with evasion and deathtouch, is probably superior. Also, the thematic addition of small drones to the mind controlling sexy robot team is fun.
Orim's Chant -> Hope of Ghirapur: Replacing a mind control, semi-Time Walk card with a similar card, only a drone with a body, is both thematic and potentially adds to the tempo fueled aggro rush possible with this deck. This could be a bad trade out, but I would like to trial it anyway.
December 26, 2017 7:38 p.m.
Hello, I like the work you've put into this. Sen Triplets has always been a card I wanted to play, but the response from my group has been poor. No one likes having their hand exposed and no one likes having someone else play their cards.
This seems to be the general response to Sen Triplets, and is something I'd be curious to get your thoughts on. If your intent is to create a shared sense of understanding in exposing one player's hand and "helping" to play their spells, you run the risk of still, every game, being the initial target and likely archenemy.
Assume the game begins before the first turn. While shuffling and cutting decks, your opponents are assessing each commander.
What does Sen Triplets represent that Queen Marchesa does not? Heavier control and combo colors! Both of these things additionally contribute to the risk you assume in becoming the target while playing this general.
The rational response in any situation involving playing against Sen Triplets is to kill the Sen Triplets player!
If we accept the fact that we are going to be pursued aggressively each and every game we play, we have several options:
- Go for an extreme pillow fort/rattlesnake strategy.
- Go for a heavy, mass removal and control strategy (which goes against some of your defined deck-building goals) or fast combo.
- Somehow communicate that you aren't the threat you seem to be, which is what I'd like to do.
To that end, the list I am brainstorming will be a mix of pillowfort/rattlesnake cards, with a dash of group hug effects, emphasizing cards (some already in your Marchesa list) that communicate how little of a threat I actually am. And that's going to be a challenge! Marchesa is awesome, but no one sees her on the other side of the table and fears a turn 2 reanimated Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur or Sharuum the Hegemon infinite combo.
I don't ever intend to play Sen Triplets on curve.
Early drops might include Sun Droplet, Wall of Omens, Wall of Denial.
Bitterblossom does a solid Forcefield impression.
Group hug will focus on draw specifically (after all, we aren't in green). My favorite group hug deck mitigates the empowering-the-person-to-your-left effect by playing a sprinkle of chaos (please see Zedruu, the Greatest of all Time here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/598449-zedruu-the-greatest-of-all-time; it really is awesome, and the deck is a result of its creator's diligent effort and love, and it stands apart from most Zedruu lists).
Enabling opponents just the right amount will be hard to achieve, but it's a direction I'd like to explore. Also, seriously, who will expect Sen Triplets group hug?
Regarding chaos, Knowledge Pool would be on theme here.
Ultimately, like Marchesa, if you can be one of two players remaining, with the appropriate protection to maintain a board position where any move your opponent makes toward you is an inherently in your favor, you can utilize key cards from their hand (Sen Triplets), deck (Praetor's Grasp, Acquire, Bribery, Knowledge Exploitation) and graveyard (Memory Plunder) to finish them off.
If you made it through this ramble, thank you. And thank you for the interesting take on Sen Triplets!
December 28, 2017 7:06 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #12
I agree with your general assessment, and I would reverse the perspective to gain some additional insight.
For opponents facing Sen Triplets, things that they need to stay aware of and counter are:
Sen Triplets can systematically dismantle any carefully constructed strategy through theft and information exposure. If she is not in play, this is not as much of an issue. Take out the head and you kill the snake.
Esper can bring amazing control. Being cautious and not over-committing is important, as counters and board wipes can seriously wreck your plans. Expect and plan for disruption, and ensure that this can't eliminate your effect on the game. The ability to shut you out of a turn through the Triplets mind control ability means you have no hope of this. Keep the Triplets off the battlefield.
Sen Triplets can basically shut down a single deck at a time. Allowing the Triplets to divide and conquer will lead to sequential losses until the Triplets win. Being united with the other players can keep this under control, along with keeping the Triplets off the board. Never allow the Triplets to make an extended appearance, or you will lose this fight.
Esper has basically all the Tutors, and tons of infinite combos. The Triplets represent danger to anyone at any time, simply due to being able to just end the game in a single turn if they hit their combo. Either being confident that you can break a combo or being able to kill the Triplets before the combo can come online will be essential to not losing. Since the Triplets can shut you out of a turn, you have to keep the Triplets off the battlefield.
So if we are thinking about facing the Triplets, every priority strategy includes keeping the Triplets off the battlefield. Any strategy by the Triplets player will include being able to make your strategy work without the Triplets being on the battlefield, and being about to bring in the Triplets and your win conditions in a way that works around the hate you are going to encounter. This means that the Triplets player needs to be able to handle early hate from multiple players and not seem obvious about building your board state to a dangerous level.
I have been trying to wrap my head around Sen Triplets Group Hug, but I ultimately keep spinning on the idea without producing anything. It will likely be difficult to convince people that it really is Sen Group Hug, and then you are empowering them as they beat on you. I am not sure this will work out well. I really want to make it work, and ultimately, with the list as is, I find I could use more card draw, and I don't much care when my opponents draw, since their cards are often my cards anyway. I just need to find the right card draw. Jace's Archivist has been an absolute all-star, and is often the foundation of most of my wins. If I could get another just like him, I would. I am considering adding back Temple Bell, even if it is not nearly as effective as the Archivist, at least it can be used multiple times a turn under the right circumstances, unlike, say, Howling Mine.
Strangely, all of the theft cards have been underwhelming. Sen Triplets can fill that role completely, and anything else is often dead anyway. I find that Unsummon effects are much more versatile, cost less, and combined with Sen Triplets, make the density of steal type effects much higher than with another general even packing every steal effect in the game. If the game goes as it usually does, Bribery and the like end up being a wasted slot.
So the really surprising thing about this deck is that I have never seen a deck that runs Sen Triplets go so heavy on the Unsummon effects. This just seems like a perfect match. On top of that, the tempo gained through those Unsummon effects can be much more powerful than people realize. A single Unsummon is just a delay. A hand full, especially when constructed in a way that is repeatable, can keep the game in the early game stage for a long time. Given that Unsummon effects are much more mana efficient than the cards they affect, then you can often develop your board around Unsummoning all the key pieces of your opponents' game plan. It is surprisingly effective. The one issue I have seen is decks built around ETB effects. Those are a problem. I need to work out how to keep the effectiveness, while being about to stop those ETB heavy decks.
The strong Pillow Fort theme can accomplish the necessary strategy of being able to face down multiple early attackers, but it is known, and for the Triplets and Esper, this can be threatening all by itself. Pillow Fort is an amazingly good strategy, but going all in has been less necessary given all the Unsummon effects. A small Pillow Fort has been all that is necessary, and going bigger has seemed to dilute or delay the deck development otherwise.
So as it stands, Tempo through Unsummon effects, a small Pillow Fort, being cautious about brining in the Triplets and being able to still progress and defend when they are removed, being cautious about building a threatening board state while keeping other players' offense directed elsewhere or otherwise under control, and then having a plan to end a game with whatever strategy is necessary, depending on what they direct toward us, all in a synnergistic shell with value in each card alone that only builds when they are combined in multiples, all while representing the deck in some ways as a Group Hug with draw cards that help me more than them and otherwise still advance the deck strategy, that will be the overall goal.
tldr: I agree that some key Group Hug-esque cards may be great, but I want to ensure that I can play without the Triplets sticking, and I need ways to get around the hate I know will be coming. Tempo, soft control, soft Pillow, and making it so that the only plans that no one sees coming are mine will be the overarching strategy.
Thanks for the feedback, I will continue to consider the Group Hug idea, and may evolve further that way.
December 28, 2017 11:18 a.m.
I understand better what you are aiming to accomplish here. Is there a place for cards like Painful Quandary or Oppression? What about Arcane Laboratory or Rule of Law?
That Zedruu deck I linked to is able to go all in on the Group Hug plan because all its primary group hug cards can be easily donated with Zedruu for additional advantage. We wouldn't have that here, so I would only put a few in, which might unfortunately take the slot of more well-rounded utility pieces.
I plan to proxy this and give it a go. Kudos again.
December 28, 2017 5:02 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #14
I have yet to find a great place for Painful Quandary. That one draws some serious hate. I am not sure I want that much hate. Oppression is great, and I use it in my Meren deck. It is a little evil for this deck, though. I think Arcane Laboratory and Rule of Law may hinder us as much as them. The value of gaining tempo with Unsummons, the value of low CMC cards, the value of counters and spot control, all these depend on being able to do more than one thing in a turn.
Agree on Zedru. I love that list, too. I want to make a Zedru Aikido political deck at some point, but I got distracted with this first.
As for my own Group Hug cards, I was thinking of going with symmetric draw cards that are permanents, preferable that can be activated outside the draw step.
I am not sure that the typical Group Hug draw would work as well, but the obvious Hug nature may make it easier to clue people in to the Group Hug side of the deck, so that should also be considered. Howling Mine and Horn of Greed are cheap, and could be all I need. The problem is that I can't shut them off if I need to, like those in the list above that allow me to keep total control. Even so, they may be worthwhile testing.
Card draw that other people have access to has a tendency to be less threatening to my opponents than card draw that is only in my hands. With the Triplets, cards in hand for my opponents can be a resource for me as well. On top of that, decking people has become a serious wincon in the deck, so enhancing that make work to my favor. In any case, this was a surprising development for me as I play the deck more.
December 28, 2017 5:30 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #15
Dark Depths -> Blightsteel Colossus: Dark Depths is too slow, even if I have the possibility of a Vesuva or Thespian's Stage to cheat it. Blightsteel Colossus can also be cheated in, it doesn't require two land drops to do it, and the Infect damage is good against possible infinite life.
Hope of Ghirapur -> Jace's Phantasm: Hope has been underwhelming without a dedicated build around it. I like the drop, but late game it really has no value, and early game it doesn't do much. The Phantasm at least becomes a beater.
Trophy Mage -> Man-o'-War: I want to really trim the tutors. The jellyfish is another bounce creature, so it fits right in.
Prismatic Lens -> Thought Vessel: Turns out I rarely use the any-colored-mana ability, and also turns out I sometimes hold a ton of cards. Easy switch.
As Foretold -> Temple Bell: As Foretold was cute, but not really that impactful. Going for a little Group Hug to see where that takes me.
Leyline of Anticipation -> Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: Leyline was really just in for sneaking in the Triplets at EOT. Teferi can do that, is a threat himself, cuts people out of responding outside of their turn, and adds to the Wizards Tribal I almost have going.
Displacement Wave -> Withdraw: I never wanted to cast the Wave. Withdraw will hopefully give me another multi-bounce card.
Energy Field -> Reliquary Tower: Energy Field never lasted more than a turn, I rarely got the Rest in Peace combo, and it usually just felt like a dead draw. Being able to hold more cards is probably better.
Rest in Peace -> Bojuka Bog: RIP is amazing, but some of the wackinness that can be achieved with Archaeomancer is eliminated with RIP in play. Will go for the Bog instead.
Gemstone Caverns -> Mikokoro, Center of the Sea: The Caverns are lackluster unless you get absolutely perfect conditions. Will add to the Group Hug thing.
Vesuva -> Horn of Greed: We can trim the land base some now, and with all the any colored lands and without Dark Depths, this is dispensable. Will add more Group Hug.
Thespian's Stage -> Howling Mine: Same as for Vesuva.
December 28, 2017 6:01 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #16
I have become less than impressed with Diviner's Wand. The :Draw a card ability works, but is less than necessary after the inclusion of the extra card draw, and the pump is only OK most of the time. If the pump is amazing, usually I have better things to do at that time than just worry about the extra damage. I would usually win without the pump if the card draw is enough to make the pump crazy. Thinking about replacing it. Cranial Plating would be nuts in most games. Blade of Selves would start some serious craziness in many games. Venser, Shaper Savant packing a Blade of Selves is scary. Anything with a Blade of Selves and a Proteus Staff is pretty nice value. Blightsteel Colossus and Blade of Selves is plain nuts. Blade of Selves with Archaeomancer or Baleful Strix is just pure value. The other option is to replace Diviner's Wand with something like Evacuation. Tough call. Either way, I think it is going, even with the Wizards tribal thing I have going on.
Also Phenax, God of Deception feels a little win-more, and otherwise not overly helpful. I feel like the Unsummon theme is working really well, and bolstering that may be worthwhile. Maybe Evacuation as listed above, maybe Hurkyl's Recall, Hoodwink, Kiora's Dismissal, River's Rebuke , Baral's Expertise, all of these could be good. I love the idea of sending all mana rocks back to someone's hand and then casting them all using Sen Triplets, but even just saving all my stuff from a Vandalblast would be worthwhile. Enchantments and lands could be difficult to manage with this deck, so maybe Hoodwink. I may just try to play around with one of these, and then every time I draw it, ask myself if I would have rather drawn one of the others. That usually clarifies things.
December 29, 2017 11:41 p.m.
Any thoughts on Curfew as an instant speed group bounce? It would let you replay your own ETB effects, and also provide you something else to imprint onto Isochron Scepter.
Harbinger of the Tides provides some additional ETB creature bounce that is both more and less flexible, and is a wizard to boot.
December 30, 2017 8:37 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #18
I have considered both, both have been in the deck at some point in the past, and both are on the back burner for possible inclusions. Given that I am adding as many bounce creatures, I should probably more strongly consider Harbinger of the Tides. My only reason for cutting it originally was because I had drifted away from all the bounce creatures, and the tap requirement was less than ideal. Curfew is interesting, and is a nice multi-bounce card, cheap CMC, and would definitely be nice on an Isochron Scepter. The problem is that it allows the opponents to choose, not me. When they only have one choice, this it fine. Otherwise, it is often not optimal unless it is on an Isochron. As it stands, I think there are better choices. Those are really great considerations for inclusion, and I appreciate the suggestions, but I have just not quite gotten there yet. Maybe I should try them again, just to see.
December 30, 2017 8:45 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #19
I just want to note that a couple turns of mana rock ramp followed by Sunder, followed by Whelming Wave, followed by Windfall is basically good game.
December 30, 2017 10:47 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #20
I decided that this deck needs to try out X. The card looks to be super silly and perfectly in line with what it is built for, almost like a secondary Sen Triplets. We will see how people respond, but honestly, I think that it can't really be worse to see X than to see Sen Triplets.
It does beg the question, does X untap while in an opponent's hand on a Paradox Engine trigger? I would guess not, but that would be amazing.
January 3, 2018 10:01 p.m.
Some1WhoPwns says... #21
AEther Adept + Paradox Engine + Temple Bell into a Windfall.... tie possibly? Throw in your Sunder and its gg for sure I was playing around with it and just couldnt stop laughing lol Ive built a version of your deck and its extremely similar, missing a couple high $ cards but it still works :) Im going to test it out tonight
January 8, 2018 1:44 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #22
Yeah, there are some whacky loops possible. With Jaces Archivist you can get into some pretty strange things, and I threw in Words of Wind to keep from decking myself while going after the mill win. I try not to Sunder to Windfall without a plan for a win right after too often. People get angry, despite the fact that keeping the game in the early game phases and taking advantage of tempo is exactly how the deck best likes to play. The amusing thing is doing that and then going Aggro with a bunch of little utility creatures. Beating a table with Jaces Archivist and Refector Mage to everyones face is just stupid.
Glad you like it, let me know how you do.
January 8, 2018 2:25 p.m.
Hello! I became obsessed with your Aikido Marchesa deck. Does this deck provide the same level of awesomeness as that one? Are you going to write up a similar overview about deck choices and whatnot for this one? I can't wait!
February 21, 2018 1:01 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #24
Thanks for the complement. I will slowly spend time writing this up, but my main love is still my Queen Marchesa deck. This deck plays pretty fun, but is not quite the same. It is super fun for tempo, it is surprisingly effective given that it plays few traditional threats, and it can really explode into crazy combos, but in reality, it is not nearly as fun to play against for other players. It is higher profile from the start, and it doesn't have the ability to enhance the plays of other players. It can be silly and fun in a very different way, and may even be more powerful at baseline, but I lose more due to being targeted. Still, very fun for when the Queen has been seen a little too much, but I am not in the mood for just a standard battle cruiser or beatface style deck.
precociousapprentice says... #1
Hey chadsansing, thanks for the comment, the suggestions, and the +1. I appreciate it.
I think I might need to expand on the deck description to let people know what I mean by politics in EDH. I spent a lot of time early on doing that when developing my Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control deck, and came to take it for granted that readers knew what I was getting at. I think I need that explanation here.
Politics to me is not deceit, manipulation, or meta-table negotiations. Those can be political, but they are not the extent of politics, and they are not nearly the best of politics. My understanding of politics stems from the idea that the players that I really want to beat are actually quite skilled and very savvy. Attempting to manipulate them into betraying their own interests is likely to be a failure, and will erode their trust in me, weakening any meta-table negotiations I may like to enter into later. Acknowledging the skill of my opponents, I want to ensure that I play to the fact that every good player will likely make the best choice for them and their board state for each choice available to them. Playing politically means giving my opponents the opportunity to take actions that are both beneficial to them and beneficial to me. In a multiplayer game, if every player takes one step toward their winning, and gives me a half step toward my winning, it doesn't take many opponents for me to not have to take any steps toward winning, but still end up winning. This is a semi-convoluted explanation, but the bottom line is that I want to encourage other players to make moves that are advantageous to me because they are advantageous to them as well, and that the net of all players making moves that happen to be advantageous to me results in me being in a position to win. With Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control, a crazy Pillow Fort that was very subtle, combined with mechanics to encourage people to be aggressive, as well as under-costed attacks that utilized their strengths against them, all combined to get me to the end game as one of the last players standing, and then I often had slightly more resources, and just enough reach to put them out of the game. It works a surprising amount of the time, even against some pretty competitive decks, and most never see it coming, because their deck is playing the way it is supposed to.
In this deck, I am hoping to use both exposure of more information about the game state (the Sen Hand Exposure), the act of sharing the burden of casting their spells to aid them in defeating our shared enemies, and the threat of loss of tempo or stolen resources to negotiate a mutually beneficial solution to a shared problem. I want to bring more table discussion into my politics, using a more perfect shared knowledge of the game state, a lower threat density in my deck, and the threats of my enemies that I steal from them, on top of a small political pillow fort and control suite to make it to the end game with more resources and better reach.
With that in mind, I can't see how either card you suggested is political. It gives my opponents choices, but not choices that benefit them while benefitting me. I went through your Guay deck list, and I see a lot of soft stax cards, but not cards that are meant to encourage other players to play in a way that benefits you. I could easily be missing it, so I would love for you to give me examples of cards or game states encountered by your deck that accomplishes politics like I have outlined. Esper is a new color combination for me, so I have a lot to learn, and I appreciate any help I can get.
December 19, 2017 10:35 p.m.