Serial Killer [Primer Included]
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 105 | 66 COMMENTS | 14923 VIEWS | IN 44 FOLDERS
your thoughts on Ensnaring Bridge, Aphotic Wisps, Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip, Wall of Souls, and Stuffy Doll
September 29, 2017 11:02 a.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #3
Ensnaring Bridge is at its best when this deck is functioning poorly - we want to have cards in our hand, because that's the best way to threaten other players with the unknown. That said, if we're struggling to get our card draw off the ground, it could buy us time. Perhaps worth trying out, but I'm not sure how effective it would end up being.
Aphotic Wisps is fine - I'd prefer Cremate, since it'll be relevant more often to exile a card than to give a creature fear.
Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip was in this deck for a while. She's good, especially if we can get her to flip. I'm not running enough creatures to reliably flip her, however, so more often than not she's just a 2/3 lifelink for three. Sometimes that's fine, because we often need to gain life to offset a lot of our card draw mechanics. I ended up taking her out because more often than not, she just wasn't performing to her maximum in this deck.
Wall of Souls and Stuffy Doll could be quite good, if you choose to move in a more creature-based direction. Both threaten opponents out of attacking us, which is the point of the deck. But unlike our kill spells, they can be removed. I'd therefore rarely be tempted to tap out to cast one of these, but if I could cast one and keep three or four mana open as well, they could be good defenders.
September 29, 2017 11:54 p.m.
I've just discovered a good card to filter the graveyard full of instants but it kinda runs in the creature based direction Deadeye Tracker
I dont even know if Meekstone would be useful either on account of using Rise of the Dark Realms
September 29, 2017 11:59 p.m.
October 2, 2017 9:32 a.m.
Scuttlemutt could help with the mono black situation with non black spells
Priest of Yawgmoth with Thornbite Staff to use the spine multiple times or the staff on magus to ramp up mana
October 8, 2017 9:35 a.m.
Love Toshiro Umezawa and your deck is great! One glaring omission that you might want to add is Bojuka Bog.
Archfiend of Depravity is another pretty neat card that has been an all-star whenever I play it.
November 8, 2017 3 p.m.
You were right about obliterator while powerful for defense he's just...there :( same with mirari and unfortunately Revel in Riches as well a few discard spells may be effective due to toshiro's flashback ability. Some cantips like Cremate or Lose Hope could provide card advantage
November 9, 2017 8:42 p.m.
Skooma_Puma says... #9
Hey, I also run Toshi for my commander and have suggestions. Definitely move snuff out and crypt incursion to main deck. Crypt incursion hoses gy strats and saved me on many occasions. Kill spells that don’t take mana are great for playmaking and good for surprising opponents. I would also like to suggest slaughter pact and imp’s mischief. Imp’s mischief can even redirect an opponents copy spell onto your slaughter pact for a surprise kill
February 26, 2019 11:52 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #10
Hey Skooma_Puma! Thanks for the comment! I'm definitely planning on playtesting both of those cards soon. Crypt Incursion in particular seems excellent, since I pay so much life for card draw, it's nice to have a few ways of regaining that life quickly. Snuff Out is a card that I've always been on the fence about, since it's another card that can't hit black creatures, along with Slaughter Pact , Doom Blade , and Malicious Affliction , all of which I'm currently running. I'm planning to test it in place of Terror , since SO is actually less restrictive than Terror, but I definitely don't want too many cards that can't target one of the more popular colors in commander. :)
February 27, 2019 4:16 a.m.
Lord_Europa says... #11
I’d recommend Thrilling Encore as a quick way to gain advantage after a board wipe.
March 9, 2019 5:03 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #12
Thanks Lord_Europa: I actually tried out Thrilling Encore for a while, but I was pretty disappointed overall. The high price means I'm not often able to cast it after chaining together several kills for a bunch of value - often, I'd have to ignore other relevant creatures I wanted to kill in order to get some value out of the Encore. That meant I was pretty dependant on using it after my opponent's board wipes, which was fine, but... not really worth the times it just sat dead in hand.
March 28, 2019 3:32 p.m.
I would use Pestilent Spirit to make sure that the target will die. and with Bolas's Citadel coming out soon I believe toshiro will hold a edge and we can save mana for better situations. With that said I believe Sensei's Divining Top is needed. I don't know if Massacre Girl will be a good asset. Liliana's Triumph is a good removal card for the deck
April 7, 2019 4:52 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #14
Hey gdm1989, thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately, I don't have any instant or sorcery spells that do damage, so Pestilent Spirit doesn't do anything here. Bolas's Citadel is interesting, and I'll probably give it a try when it comes out! Sensei's Divining Top , however, isn't very good with more ways to interact with the top of my library, so I probably won't add that just for the Citadel. Liliana's Triumph is already in my maybeboard/"to be tried" list. Massacre Girl is a sweet card, and I'm brewing her her own deck, but she doesn't belong here because if she kills anything, she'll kill Toshiro and Crypt Ghast , probably also Chainer, Dementia Master , and those are too important to us.
April 8, 2019 1:46 p.m.
I misread that spirit so bad :( and while I agree that top is kinda risky I think Aetherflux Reservoir is a exception
April 9, 2019 9:10 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #16
Aetherflux Reservoir is a cool card - but it puts a pretty big target on us, and gives our opponents incentive to attack us, which is what we typically don't want. In other decks, it works well because the turn you cast it, you can quickly storm off and gain enough life to have a lethal threat. In this deck, while we often can cast several spells in a turn, it's not always enough to make up for the life we typically are paying to draw cards, meaning we can't reliably get to a high enough life total in one or two turns.
April 10, 2019 2:37 a.m.
If you're not running a lot of creatures, and aren't too keen on making sure to keep some up, perhaps Spreading Plague would be a nice card to consider?
May 1, 2019 3:06 a.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #18
Good call ZypherW! I'll probably give that a try sometime soon. It's a good way to clamp down on go wide or token strategies that sometimes can give this deck trouble. I am worried that it might cause us to become a target, so likely better deployed late at 7+ mana when we can threaten another kill to back it up.
May 1, 2019 3:49 a.m.
If I may interject regardless of those cards are in there you'll still be targeted due to commander. Sometimes it's best to hit fast with a few of those cards or have them for insurance. Secondly there are far worse stuff out in commander they'll be more concern about (Thanks Urza) The question is how you time using the cards. Don't get me wrong I understand your concern on just playing the role of observer which I like to do as well, however I'll be quick to shift to mass murdering psychopath if I see a opportunity to win in commander. Now with that said I suggest Force of Despair , Crypt Rats , Defile, Mind Rake , maybe Umezawa's Charm and Hatred to give someone a boost while they take out a ally for you. I think the Gauntlet of Power and r eplaced with Mimic Vat in your maybeboard. Seeing how some very powerful cards were spoiled in modern horizons, you're going to need either some more monsters with great defenses or stax to prevent any threats coming towards you. Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge might work, mostly the former if you don't want the archenemy option
June 1, 2019 11 a.m.
oh and this may be crazy but your thoughts on Forbidden Crypt
June 1, 2019 11:04 a.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #21
Hey gdm1989!
Defile is sweet, and will definitely be getting a slot in here. I'm still on the fence about Force of Despair - it seems strong, but it seems better in 1v1, where I'm not going down two cards to clear one player's creatures right before two more players get a chance to play. I'll test it, but not sure how good it will be.
Crawlspace is a fine card. I don't particularly like playing it because it's not my style (I prefer threats over restrictions), but it's certainly strong.
Ensnaring Bridge isn't as good. First, because it stops our opponents from attacking each other, and second because it relies on us not having cards in hand, which is not what we want. I'd rather have a grip of kill spells than a Bridge and an empty hand.
Umezawa's Charm , while flavorful, is still not powerful enough for the deck. Umezawa's Jitte is strong because of its reusability, and the way it can continue to stack counters when its modes aren't useful right away, allowing it to really build up a large effect. The charm is a one-off, that can't build up to get stronger, and doesn't do any of the things this deck wants very well. Even the Jitte isn't in the deck, because combat damage isn't reliable in the way I play, and the charm is just worse.
Hatred , on the other hand, is very strong. I don't run it because I prefer to pay a lot of life into card draw effects, so paying large chunkcs of life into hatred would be either dangerous or restrictive of the number of cards I can draw. That said, a different build that focused on being more aggressive could use it very well.
Mind Rake is underwhelming. I don't usually care about cards in my opponent's hands. Without a lot of other discard synergy, it's not worth running a one-off discard spell.
Crypt Rats kills itself, and kills our commander, faster than it can kill anything else. Unless I'm 1-shot killing someone, it's not worth it, and if I AM one-shot killing someone, my existing X-spells are better. If I wanted that effect, I'd play Pestilence or Pestilence Demon instead, since those can be more useful in short burst activations.
Gauntlet of Power is one of the strongest cards in the deck - removing it, or one of the other mana doublers would be a serious mistake. Mimic Vat is nice, but not worth removing the Gauntlet for.
Forbidden Crypt is bad. I can already reuse most of the cards in my graveyard. Returning them to hand isn't actually gaining card advantage, especially since I have to exile them when I send them back to the yard (the same as if I had just cast them with Toshiro), and because I have to sacrifice the ability to draw cards to do it. If it were a "may" ability, it MIGHT be okay, but even then I'd probably not bother. Plus, Bojuka Bog and Nihil Spellbomb and other mass graveyard hate already targets my deck a lot - with that card in play, it makes me lose the game on the spot.
June 7, 2019 7:05 a.m.
Crazy that onone mention Jet Medallion yet. I mean you want to chain your reomovel with Umezawa.
June 7, 2019 8:36 p.m.
Really cool deck! I have a Toshi deck too, and it's my favorite :) I play a bit less instants and a few more creatures, check out my list if you want! It's like murder except legal (MonoB Control EDH)
As far as suggestions go, why no Necropotence? And Insidious Dreams is crazy as far as tutors go. Put Necro on top, get everything else right at the end of your turn.
June 8, 2019 2:51 a.m.
disregard the card I mentioned earlier. Vilis, Broker of Blood , Yawgmoth, Thran Physician (better if running Ogre Slumlord or overseer of the damned), and Contamination . I notice help with the draw power and a temporary stall if you need to refill hands. Just be careful with using Vilis if you decide to use him
gdm1989 says... #1
Also sorry for all these comments. I also want to thank you about your suggestions as well. As far as getting attacked. My play group don't trust whatever deck I use even if I use Isamaru, Hound of Konda they'll want me dead as soon as possible. XD
Here's my attempt at the deck. I'm still working out the kinks to it
September 28, 2017 9:52 a.m.