I have watched a fair amount twitch playing and/or playing against Hogaak Dredevine.

(1) they commented on a lot was that Necrotic wound rarely came in from the Sideboard.

(2) Humans is by far the worst matchup (even with mainboard creature hate).

(3) the Mirror match which happens a lot comes down to a race to find hate for the answer the leyline of the void. The value engine while looking for answers often times means both players are between 5-10 before one player breaks the game open.

(4) Surgical extraction on one piece of the deck is not lights out. The deck can win without two main pieces.

(5) Neoform Griselbrand deck is still faster than Hogaak Dredevine.

(6) The few times affinity has showed up as an opponent it did very badly.

(7) Burn (Naya, Rakdos, or Boros) can sneak away with wins if the Hogaak player does not watch his life total with the fetches and shock lands.

P.S.

Current Version

ALL HAIL OUR NEW GRAVEYARD OVERLORD HOGAAK!!! GRAVEYARD WINTER IS COMING!!!

Marcus_Licinius_Crassus,
Great comments; thanks so much! Some thoughts ...

• On Necrotic Wound : I found I brought it in often enough, but that it was just too inconsistent for my tastes. E.g., I had one in hand vs. Humans, but they had a RIP on board ... ugh! I've swapped it with Lightning Axe , for now.
• Flamekin Harbinger is MVP in the Mirror. Finds Wispmare when they have a Leyline start, and can grab a Vengevine when they don't.
• I've also been amazed how strong the deck is vs. Surgical Extraction ... I started out totally convinced the deck needed 3-4x Silent Gravestone and now I'm almost positive it doesn't need any :-)
• Neo-Grisel is definitely faster, but it seems MUCH easier to hate out (not necessarily with this deck, but by other decks) so I don't think it's going to be anything but a super-fringe.
• Yeah, Burn is scary. Especially since I will almost certainly have to start with Sulfurous Springs in paper ...

Thanks again, and I'll give your deck a hard look shortly!

//

Enral,
All hail, indeed!

I love the Flamekin Harbinger plan especially with Wispmare and all the other cards that happen to be elementals like Vengevine .

Sulfurous Spring does a good job for games 2/3 when you have to find an untapped land past turn 3. The deck pilot will take 1-3 damage in a game playing this card,but it is not a bad option. I would call the Sulfurous Spring a 90% option.

Thank you for Sideboard suggestion(s).

Follow on: the Flamekin Harbinger also finds the Ingot Chewer . The creature finding a piece of the SB is a great way to still put a body on the field to advance the altar of dementia game plan.

The evoke mechanic (like you mentioned) plays very well into the altar game plan.

Marcus_Licinius_Crassus,
Yeah, I've been liking Flamekin more and more ... there have been a couple times now where the one extra turn (i.e., putting the card on top of my Library instead of just having an extra copy in my hand to start with) has really hurt, but I think having the "extra" sideboard slots helps enough to make up for it.

Cheers!

Any thoughts on how to make this work without so many expensive lands? I can afford sulfurous springs and forbidden orchard, but I'm thinking it might be more smart to go for more basic lands and then lands like dragonskull summit, but then again you risk getting locked out of the cards to cast when it could be a crucial time to get the casts off.

Is the white sideboard necessary? I was thinking just Assassin's Trophy

UnderworldFiend then you'd still be splashing a color for sideboard.

Imnottyler17,
The manabase challenge is that the deck really wants B or R on Turn 1, BB by Turn 3, and W by Turn 3 (postboard). Based on Frank Karsten's classic article on manabases, this means we need should be running 19x B sources, 14x R sources, and 12x W sources. The current 18-Land configuration is actually a little shy ... it only gives us 18x B sources, 14x R sources, and 11x W sources.

Good places to save some money are with ...

• Blackcleave Cliffs : Cards like Sulfurous Springs (or Mana Confluence and Gemstone Mine , if you already have them) aren't as good (especially in longer games where the lifeloss will add up, and we'll eventually lose the Mine), but at least they won't slow the deck down any.
• Fetchlands: The deck needs 8x Black fetchlands but any of them will work. Polluted Delta , Bloodstained Mire , Marsh Flats , and Verdant Catacombs can all fetch a Blood Crypt or a Godless Shrine just fine, so feel free to mix and match whith whatever is least expensive/whatever you might already have. Of note, the Fetches serve double-duty in the deck, as they are GREAT for recurring Bloodghast.
• Godless Shrine : The deck needs at least 1x (so we can find W with a Fetchland), but now that I take a hard look at it, I think Concealed Courtyard might actually be better here.

Adding Basics will make the early turns much more inconsistent (or cause additional mulligans), and adding checklands (e.g., Dragonskull Summit )/reveal lands (e.g., Foreboding Ruins ) will slow the deck down on early turns (or cause additional mulligans). I'm not honestly sure how bad the effect is going to be, especially once the London Mulligan kicks in ...

Good luck ... budget brewing is REALLY tough, and I wish I could help more!

//

UnderworldFiend,
Having Creature-based Enchantment/Artifact removal is better in this deck than Instant-based because we can sac' the Creature for value with the Evoke trigger on the stack, it counts towards Vengevine 's triggered ability, it gets around Chalice of the Void on 1 (if we were on Nature's Claim ) or 2 (if we were on Assassin's Trophy ), and it provides a 1/3 beater with evasion. The only exception I can think of is vs. Karn, the Great Creator + Mycosynth Lattice , where we sometimes wish we could float mana and kill the Lattice at Instant-speed.

Of note, this plan also gives us "extra" sideboard slots, because we can use Flamekin Harbinger as Wispmare numbers 4-5. Flamekin is especially amazing in the Mirror, since it can grab a Mare if they have Leyline of the Void in their opener and Vengevine if they don't,

Is Wispmare necessary? No. Is it better than Assassin's Trophy ? IMO, yes.

Thanks!

Imnottyler17,
FYI, I updated the manabase, based on your question and a bunch of discussion over on the Bridgevine Discord. It now gives us 18x B sources, 15x R sources, and 12x W sources.

So, after seeing this, and knowing I had a dredgevine deck, I have made what I can to use Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis . Would really appreciate opinion. Thanks for the inspiration as well. Its the land base which is a little different. Hogaak, on the Bridge.

So I've been looking at this deck extensively and I like either Cabal Therapist or Cryptbreaker in the flex spots. Both 1 mana and seem to do more unless your meta requires more removal with darkblast.

UnderworldFiend,
Yeah, those certainly seem like reasonable choices. The deck is very weak though to Creature-based hate cards (e.g., Harsh Mentor , Goblin Cratermaker , and Yixlid Jailer ) and Creature-based Combo (e.g., anything with Devoted Druid ), so I definitely like some sort of removal there.

Thanks!

Cabal therapist is good in bO1 and straight broken in bO3.

What are your thoughts on mainboard Leyline of the Void for fighting the opposing Hogaak decks? I've seen some other lists doing it.

Imnottyler17,
Eh, maybe. As I type this, it's shown up in exactly one of 49 successful Hogaak decks, so I wouldn't personally recommend it at this point.

//

ToolmasterOfBrainerd
I've found fast creature decks to be a bigger threat than other Hogaak decks, so I prefer removal in the flex slots. But it's a very reasonable call in a Hogaak-heavy meta.

So what's than after Bridge from Below got banned today? I'm trying to figure it out

Doombeard1984,
I'm not sure tbh. -4x Bridge from Below and -4x Altar of Dementia , I guess, for starters :-D

I'll probably start with some mix of Creeping Chill , Unearth , and Stinkweed Imp , but I've no idea where the deck might end up ...

Good luck with your testing too!

Has it been confirmed that Hogaak remains legal during the GP?

Kjartan,
Of course, lol. GP Vegas is 22-25 Aug, and the next B&R is on 26 Aug.

If you fear Surgical Extraction or expect snapcaster to make any sort of appearance Ground Seal is rather good, it also only shuts down Golgari Thug 's death trigger on your end.

PurePwnage,
Yeah, I generally just delete the spam.

Demarge,
I had tested Silent Gravestone in one of the very earliest versions of the deck, and frankly found it to be kinda meh. IMO, Surgical Extraction just isn't really worth a dedicated sideboard slot, plus the trigger from Golgari Thug is often quite useful (e.g., getting a Satyr Wayfinder back when we need gas or a Land drop, and getting a Hogaak back when our opp has a Grafdigger's Cage ). The cantrip of Ground Seal is nice though, so I'll keep it in mind if Surgical becomes more of a threat.

Thanks!

Are the Caterpillars nessicary in the main?