I suggest you add Nemesis of Mortals . Ive played dim for 2 green, and monstrous him for just as cheap ;D

@ToTheMaxTG: I playtested a lot with Nemesis of Mortals , and being able to drop a huge threat for cheap feels awesome indeed. This deck, however, already runs quite some pay-off cards. Empty the Pits , Necropolis Fiend , Nighthowler , Sidisi, Brood Tyrant . If I were to add in more pay-off cards, I'd have to run less enablers. Also, all these pay-off cards seem better, mostly due to Nemesis's lack of evasion. Basically, it's just a very efficient vanilla creature, either 5/5 for GG or 10/10 for GGGG. I could see it take the place of Sagu Mauler , but while Mauler is harder to cast, it's also a lot harder to remove, and has trample.

It's still something to consider, that's for sure. What would you suggest taking out for him?

Have you looked into adding Marang River Prowler? I think he has a lot more utility than either Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Torrent Elemental.

With Tasigur, I don't like cards that put my fate in the hands of my opponents' decision-making. I'm also not a big fan of Torrent Elemental. I found him to be a little too slow and situational for my liking.

Have you considered more removal? With all of the cards going in your graveyard, Murderous Cut would make a real nice addition.

@jshdfshr: First off, thanks for the feedback!

I've used Marang River Prowler to great extent in the pre-release. A recursing unblockable dude assured some wins for me, for sure. However, I feel he was just great in the pre-release. He's a dude for limited formats, not Standard. My 3 mana spot is pretty filled with dudes I really want there: Courser of Kruphix to help my lands and set up a very solid defense, and Nyx Weaver which boosts my strategy. This guy does neither of the two. With Sidisi making tokens, Empty the Pits making even more and Torrent Elemental pushing me through, I'm looking for big finishes. Prowler doesn't help this strategy in no way, and I can use the 3 mana wiser at every point of the game.

As for Tasigur, I never play his ability to get a card back from the grave. At best, I can get back something slightly useful, at worst, I just furthered my gameplan a bit. He has synergy with Courser too, in that if I don't like the top-deck I'm seeing, I can get rid of it. But most importantly of all, he's a 4/5 body I can put on the field when my regular play leaves a land open.

Torrent Elemental is my favorite card of the new set, and I can't tell you just how awesome he is. There's boatloads of value to be found. He has purpose everywhere. In my deck, he can give Sidisi a zombie. On the field, he'll push me through. In my grave, I can Whip him, and again he'll push me through, OR I can Delve him without losing him. In my hand, he's an option for me to play. Even in exile, he's another option for me. Against staled boards, he can give you the win. Against control, he's a recursive threat. He has a very nice resistance to Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. This dude is an all-star, I promise you that.

Maybe I'm just biased, but I think the build's kinda where I want to be right now. I do have to grant you though, I agree I need more removal. Murderous Cut would be a great addition to the deck, and I think it'll make the cut somewhere in the near future. But first I need a lot more playtesting to see where I can create the space to jam it in.

@Yananas

After playtesting, I see the limitations of Marang River Prowler. A three-drop that can't defend is an open invitation early in the game.

You've convinced me that I have to give Torrent Elemental another shot. I wouldn't be surprised if I grow to love him as much as you.

I loved Nyx Weaver when he first came out, but he became a little redundant for me once Sidisi, Brood Tyrant was released. The one advantage Nyx Weaver has is that he can fetch out of the graveyard, but it costs 3 mana just to get it back in hand. If you were looking to open up spots for more removal, that's where I would start.

Have you messed around with Temporal Trespass at all? I haven't been able to get any synergy out of it in my whip deck.

@jshdfshr: At this point I've reached a (probably over) critical mass of creatures in my deck, with literally 50% creatures. They make Sidisi very happy (though even now, she still botches sometimes!), but it might be a little over done. Still, I haven't played a lot of games with this build yet, so I'm going to test this amazing amount of creatures some more before doing anything. But if I have to cut anywhere, it's the creature site (and hopefully I can get away with 1 land less, I've been thinking about it a lot and paying close attention to redundant lands).

I think I'll start by cutting Silumgar, the Drifting Death and Pharika, God of Affliction. They're both cool, but I think it stops there. Pharika is great when she can give me a surprise blocker (ideally by exiling Torrent Elemental) and when on the Whip mirror match (by exiling their Hornet Queen, Siege Rhino or Sidisi, Brood Tyrant). Silumgar is great against token strategies. I think they're more sideboard material.

I do agree about Nyx Weaver, but I'm not sold yet. He enables, runs through my deck and is single-use instant speed selective card advantage, of which the selection gets stronger as the game goes on. Also, turn 3 plays are very nice to have. I do agree that when Whipping Sidisis every turn, he gets to be quite redundant. I'd have to test how the deck runs without him, or just less of him.

@Yananas

The one thing I like about Nyx Weaver over Sidisi, Brood Tyrant is the ability to fetch Whip of Erebos when you mill it into the graveyard. Perhaps you could cut one of each to start, that still would give you ten cards feeding your graveyard. I know it hurts lose a functional three-drop, but Hero's Downfall is a three and Murderous Cut is usually less. I know it's discard and not removal, but Rakshasa's Secret gets cards out of your opponents hand while filling your graveyard.

I kind of feel the same way as you about Silumgar, the Drifting Death. By the time you're able to play him, you've already been beaten to death by the tokens you're trying to counter. Still, the hexproof and flying are pretty nice. He's brutal late-game, the trick is getting there. Originally I put him in my deck because I was trying to get him to synergize with Soulflayer, who I ended up pulling. Pre-FRF, I had Doomwake Giant filling the anti-token role. I thought Silumgar, the Drifting Death would be better, since you don't have to rely on enchantment drops to trigger his ability, but Doomwake Giant gives everyone the -1/-1 when he enters the battlefield, while Silumgar, the Drifting Death has to get over his summoning sickness, plus he costs one more to cast.

I'm going to try the 3xNyx Weaver/Sidisi, Brood Tyrant in my deck. I haven't been using Empty the Pits, though it looks pretty fun. I usually rely on whipping Hornet Queen for my win con.

@jshdfshr: Doomwake Giant was also my anti-token dude of choice, and I think it was clearly the best choice. Silmgar tries to fill his spot, but I don't think he can really make it. The ETB vs the needing to attack isn't the deal breaker for me, as the goal is to Whip him anyways, and Silumgar has Hexproof so he can't be removed as easily on instant speed. The 1 higher CMC is the sucker though, as hardcasting Giant is way more viable. And a hardcast Giant will trigger when playing Whip, also huge.

Empty the Pits is a lot of fun, and the way to win with it was going wider than your opponent, playing EtP at their end step and surprising them with a fuckton of Zombies. However, with Torrent Elemental, I don't need to go as wide to win, so I'm considering cutting it, which would again give me space for removal.

@Yananas

Allow me to be the first person in the universe to admit he was wrong on a message board.

I just playtested Torrent Elemental and it's a brilliant card. Now that I've seen the light, it's hard for me to understand why I didn't before. Not only is it a failsafe against "Exile opponents graveyard" cards, but it's an alternate win con, too!

Right now, my deck is struggling with early-game defense. Against good decks, even when I win, it seems like my life gets way low until I fish out Whip of Erebos and lifelink myself back into the game. I was thinking of adding some Rakshasa Deathdealers, but maybe I'm just being stubborn and need to admit that I need to get Nyx Weaver back in the mix.

Do you have struggles early in the game with your strategy?

@jshdfshr: I've seen lots of people who initially said the Elemental was utter crap while I tried defending him. Just looking at his stats, I get where that's coming from, he's just a 3/5 flyer. You can only get him back sorcery speed, and he comes tapped. Recently a pro player (Reid Duke) wrote an article saying he thought it was awesome, and now awesome seems like the consensus. I'm glad I helped you see the light while he's still cheap (though I don't think he'll go up much).

Early game can be tricky against fast decks, but I always have a turn 3 play. Sometimes that play is Satyr Wayfinder or Sylvan Caryatid, but at least there's some defense. It's true that you just have to get by the first few turns, and wait for Courser of Kruphix, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and Whip of Erebos to get you out of kill range. The beauty is that if you make it, you're basically untouchable.

Nyx Weaver is a dude that receives a lot of hate in the more competitive environments for being 'a bad card'. I really like the little spider though, but I do think that after Pharika and Silumgar, he's the weakest link in my creature base. Rakshasa Deathdealer is great, and you really can't go wrong playing him as a solid creature. Then again, he doesn't help my game plan, so I like Weaver better. Deathdealer would make for a faster curve though.

I think Soulflayer could be good, as a 1 of. with whip and you other creatures he could very well be a flying, hexproof, deathtouch, lifelink.

Plus one for the great description :)

Out of curiosity do you feel Kheru Lich Lord would make a good re animator for this deck?

@wizardjohn: Soulflayer is a fun card, which can be very strong when you feed it a Hornet Queen. However, he's a terrible Whip target, and frankly, you don't need a flying deathtouch hexproof guy to win. I just need loads of zombies and a Torrent Elemental to push me through. Soulflayer would compete for resource with Murderous Cut, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and most importantly, Whip of Erebos.

@FatherLiir: I don't think he has a spot in this deck right now, mainly because I think Whip of Erebos is just better. He does have a few upsides: activation is cheaper than Whip, and he gives flying + trample. But the downsides outweigh that: initial cost is higher, no lifelink. You choose if you want a guy at the start of your turn, before you can use a Satyr Wayfinder or Sultai Charm to help get the good guys in the grave. Worst of all, and the absolute dealbreaker, is 'at random'. I don't want a Sylvan Caryatid with Flying, Trample and Haste, I want Hornet Queens, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and Torrent Elemental. Not being able to choose makes him weak in standard. He's very fun in EDH though. Again, not very strong, but a good chaos card.

Thanks for letting me know :) Just a little gem I found out recently and was wondering how he would fit in a reanimator but you'd need to build the deck around him and just spells to get stuff in the graveyard. As for your deck I think you are spot on with everything.

Looking really great, may give it a try

@iceyyou: Thanks! Let me now how it works out for you if you try it.

Going to run it at fnm tonight, so will definitely let you know :)

@iceyyou: I'm curious about your results. I also took it to FNM, which has a slightly competitive environment. I found the deck a bit weak to aggro, but having strong game against the rest. How did you do?

I really like this deck. +1 from me

@Yananas Same here, really. it functions very similar to a sidisi whip deck, but I don't feel it is fast enough. May add another sylvan to the mix and test again

@iceyyou: I agree on the speed. Rounding out the Sylvans might be a good thing, I used to run 4 but cut 1 to make room. I'm also thinking of putting in a couple of Thoughtseizes.