Smashface Gardening with Rith
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 122 | 213 COMMENTS | 21012 VIEWS | IN 53 FOLDERS
Thanks SorinDankov! I like Joiner Adept, and may have to pull in Druid of the Anima from my maybeboard too.
October 30, 2015 10:24 p.m.
Some suggest for the manabase, add the shocklands, checklands and painlands, Naya shocks are some of the cheaper ones.
Iknow u have counters but, this can be removed for Far seek, so u can ramp and fix a little more colors.
October 30, 2015 11:12 p.m.
Hey, Lanzo493, thanks for all the suggestions!
Some thoughts:
- I like Mycoloth, but think he draws too much hate for his $5+ price. Especially after he's just devoured a bunch of Saprolings.
- Dragonlair Spider, Devout Invocation, Avenger of Zendikar, Assemble the Legion, From Beyond, Storm Herd, and Requiem Angel are all great cards, but not for this deck. You may not have noticed I'm running Saproling and Dragon tokens only.
- I totally agree with you on Dragon Broodmother though. It's on my maybeboard and I'll include it as soon as I can.
- I've been off and on about Parallel Evolution. There's a couple token decks that show up in my group periodically, and I hate giving them any advantage. But based on your rec' I'll add it to my sideboard.
- I'm not a fan of the Blighted Woodland (no tutors for me) nor the Fertile Thicket (because lands aren't that important in this deck, and I hate having to put all the goodstuff on the bottom of the library). I like Sandstone Bridge though (especially since I just cracked on in a BFZ draft!) and Sejiri Steppe. I also really appreciate the Blighted Steppe recommendation. I hadn't even looked at it, as there's really no lifegain in the deck, but I can certainly see how that'd be a nice bonus late-game. I'll definitely take a hard look at all of these as I tweak my mana base.
- I had Mentor of the Meek in an earlier version of the deck, and pulled it because it was too inconsistent (it's great early game, but whiffs mid- and late-game once I get the Saprolings start ETB pumped up)
- I have Collective Blessing on my maybe board and I totally though I had True Conviction there too. I really like them both, and I'd love your recommendations on what cards I should pull if I add these.
- Thanks TONS for the Archangel of Tithes rec'. I've never really paid any attention to Angels, but she's great, and would be a really strong add to the deck. Any ideas on what to pull?
Thanks again!
October 30, 2015 11:29 p.m.
Lanzo493, I agree that Strionic Resonator causes a TON of rules questions, and I thought I had them all nailed down. I need to dig into the comprehensivve rules and get back to you on a couple of the points you raise. I also agree that's it's only useful with a handful of the cards I list (that's why I only made comments on a handful).
Also, Contagion Engine, Fireshrieker, and Impact Tremors are all in my maybeboard. I'd love your recommendations on what cards I should pull if I add them.
October 30, 2015 11:41 p.m. Edited.
Thanks _Djanngo_, I'm definitely going to have to spend some on the Naya page at ManabaseCrafter!
No Farseek for me though (no tutors).
October 30, 2015 11:45 p.m.
Pulling cards is rather hard. It's especially hard because your deck doesn't just focus on one aspect, but multiple. You've got saprolings and dragons. By focusing on the two of them, it becomes a lot harder to distinguish which is more important, but I'll give my 2 cents.
Dragon Tempest is rather lackluster. It does add haste, which is nice. You have approximately 9 dragons/dragon generators in this deck. You'll probably get 3 out in a game (including your commander). It won't do much damage. Even if you give your commander haste, you won't have mana to activate his ability. It'll just be voltron instead of token generation, and he takes 4 hits to kill.
Proliferate is not a very viable option in this deck. Well, not as viable as other options. While you can make your army bigger, it gets super messy keeping count of it. Plus, Cathars' Crusade is enough to kill your opponents off on its own. Therefore, proliferate only works with Ajani Steadfast and Juniper Order Ranger (unless I missed a card). Getting both Ajani and proliferate out in a game is unlikely. I say remove Contagion Clasp and Volt Charge.
Night Soil is great in concept. However, in order to get a good number of tokens off of it you need a lot of creatures in the graveyard. That can't really be accomplished without milling or a lot of creatures dying. If you're meta is prone to boardwipes, then you should keep it. Otherwise it's kind of a wasted card slot for something better.
Druidic Satchel is a card I don't like. For 2 mana, once a turn, you either get a land to make up for half that mana, get a weak token, or gain 2 life. All options, except the land, are pretty mediocre. Life gain in EDH has to be BIG for it to be effective.
Selesnya Evangel is way too slow. Rith is fast, and any cards meant to help him have to help significantly to make much of a difference. Just take a look at Sprout Swarm. It makes multiple tokens and those tokens can make more tokens, and it's a mana sink.
Overwhelming Instinct can only draw you one card a turn. That's not very much. It just doesn't compare to big draw spells like Slate of Ancestry and whatnot.
I hope I gave you enough ideas of switching out cards. Not all of my ideas are relevant since I haven't been able to be totally familiarized with your deck, but I believe some of my suggestions are on the mark. As a general rule for future changes, make changes that either get better effects for cheaper, kill the opponent faster, or control the board.
October 31, 2015 12:43 a.m.
Lanzo493, I really appreciate your comments on Strionic Resonator.
- I was playing Atarka, World Render wrong. I had cross-wired her 'attack' trigger with the resultant 'deals damage' triggers from double-strike. You're totally right that the combo has no effect :-(
- I was playing Beastmaster Ascension and all the other combos right though. Whew!
I updated the description too, below. Hopefully it makes more sense and is more correct now!
Thanks again!
Some combos worth mentioning:
- Cathars' Crusade
+
Strionic Resonator
: An extra counter for every creature you control
- Dragon Tempest
+
Strionic Resonator
; Preyseizer Dragon
+
Strionic Resonator
: Double damage
- Dragonmaster Outcast
+
Strionic Resonator
: An extra 5/5 Dragon
- Rith, the Awakener
+
Strionic Resonator
: A bunch of Saprolings, then (if you've got the mana) a bunch more
- Strionic Resonator
+
Utvara Hellkite
: An extra 6/6 Dragon
- Pollenbright Wings: An extra X Saprolings
It also combos nicely (though not spectacularly), with the following ...
- Aura Shards
+
Strionic Resonator
: Destroys an extra artifact or enchantment
- Beastmaster Ascension
+
Strionic Resonator
, Champion of Lambholt
+
Strionic Resonator
, Strionic Resonator
+
Sunscorch Regent
: One extra counter
- Juniper Order Ranger
+
Strionic Resonator
: One extra counter on the new creature and one extra on the Ranger
- Purphoros, God of the Forge
+
Strionic Resonator
: Two extra damage to each opponent
- Savage Ventmaw
+
Strionic Resonator
: Six extra mana
- Drumhunter
+
Strionic Resonator
, Overwhelming Instinct
+
Strionic Resonator
, Skullclamp
+
Strionic Resonator
: Draw an extra card
- Contagion Clasp
+
Strionic Resonator
, Psychotrope Thallid
+
Strionic Resonator
: One extra counter
- Strionic Resonator
+
Thelonite Hermit
: Four extra Saprolings
- Strionic Resonator
+
Verdant Force
; the creature enchanted by Strionic Resonator
+
Verdant Embrace
: One extra Saproling
- Strionic Resonator + Zhur-Taa Druid : One extra damage to each opponent
Of note, Atarka, World Render + Strionic Resonator is a non-bo, which has no effect. Here's why: Declare a Dragon as attacker/attack trigger goes off; the Dragon gains double strike (the ability to deal combat damage during both the First Strike step and the normal Combat Damage step) from Atarka; activate the Resonator; the Dragon gains double strike again ... which has no additional effect.
Hellkite Charger + Strionic Resonator is a non-bo as well. You can get an extra attack phase from the Resonater, but it's more efficient to just have the Charger attack again.
October 31, 2015 9:34 a.m.
Lanzo493, thanks also for your suggestions on what to pull! No easy choices there for sure, but I really appreciate your perspectives.
A couple quick thoughts:
- I'm afraid Dragon Tempest is a keeper. I usually get enough Dragon tokens out to make it worthwhile. And pulling a Descent of the Dragons
+
Dragon Tempest
is just insane.
- I've been off and off with both Sprout Swarm (in an earlier version of the deck) and Slate of Ancestry (in an earlier maybeboard). I'll give both another hard look ...
Great points on the others. Thanks again!
October 31, 2015 12:10 p.m. Edited.
Shared Animosity is stupid with any sort of tokens. A less broken and harder to remove Coat of Arms. Mana Echoes pairs beautifully with any sort of tribal theme an goes infinite with Jade Mage or any other style mana sync that produces tokens, and since you aren't running tutors it won't really push you past the 75% you are looking to maimtain.
November 1, 2015 7:39 p.m.
Also unless it was a budget decision I would replete Primal Vigor with Doubling Season. No point in helping your opponent.
November 1, 2015 8:48 p.m.
Thanks, Faybian!
Shared Animosity looks cool; I'll give it a hard look.
I'm going to pass on Coat of Arms though...there are a lot of tribal decks in my group, and like you say, there's no point in helping my opponents.
I had both Mana Echoes and Jade Mage in an earlier maybeboard and dropped both (because of their price and speed, respectfully). But I hadn't thought about the combo potential and will give them a hard look as well.
Doubling Season is undoubtedly a great card, but it draws so much hate in my group that it has really bad price-performance. Especially considering my comment (you may have missed it): The deck's on a tight budget, so any card over $5 has to be REALLY good ... and cards like Phyrexian Altar, Earthcraft, Doubling Season, and Gaea's Cradle are right out.
Thanks again!
November 1, 2015 9:59 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #13
hey man! Now I'm jumping onto your page lol. Quick question, why do you play Berserkers' Onslaught when you can play True Conviction for 1 more mana, non conditional double strike AND lifelink? Lifelink has been sorely underestimated in EDH across all my decks imo, it's a great political tool. People rather go for an alpha strike on someone than hit someone with a higher life total in my experience (unless it's oloro)
November 1, 2015 11 p.m.
Fair enough, also Mana Echoes does require some work to go infinite, but even without the extra pieces it can get silly, I run it in my krenko deck and honestly there just is not enough cards in the deck for me to spend the mana on. I'm also brewing up an angel tribal deck for my wife, splashing red just because of those two cards. I have never had them under perform.
November 1, 2015 11:08 p.m.
Hey rockleemyhero!
Onslaught vs. Conviction is all about that one extra mana. I actually had True Conviction on an earlier maybeboard, but dropped it when I noticed that it and Rith are both 6-drops...and with Onslaught as a 5-drop, I can conceivably get it out the turn before Rith. I'm not sure it's ever played out that way IRL, mind you, but that was my thought process.
I'd never thought about lifelink as a political tool though. Hmm, back to the maybeboard!
November 1, 2015 11:12 p.m.
Also Elder of Laurels is a really solid performer in any creature based deck, and tokens just make it better, he can also be had for like 75 cents foiled. My wife runs a mono green ramp deck and in 2 turns using him and Feed the Pack she was making more tokens then I could possibly hope my poor Krenko, Mob Boss to keep up with. If you don't mind loosing a little flavor for some scary performance I would recommend both of them. Sorry for so many long posts but seeing a nice deck that is outside the pay to win/degenerate commander spectrum is something I like and don't get to see often in my local meta. If I think or learn of anything worthwhile in this deck I will be letting you know.
November 1, 2015 11:20 p.m.
Last one for now, I would strongly recommend replacing Tower of Fortunes for either Slate of Ancestry or Staff of Nin 8 mana and taping down for 4 cards is pretty steep. If you prefer creeps Garruk's Packleader and Mentor of the Meek also aid in some nice draw power.
November 1, 2015 11:33 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #18
clayperce hmm, i see. If you're going for the 75% build and the political side of things, how does that work? I guess where I'm confused is going turn 5 onslaught into a turn 6 rith paints a big target on your head. And even if you have haste, you wont have the mana at that time to trigger rith's ability. Do you ever find this to be a problem?
November 1, 2015 11:50 p.m.
Faybian, those look like some great recommendations ... I really appreciate it, and will dig into them soon! Also, no worries on the "long posts" and thanks much for the kind words!
rockleemyhero, Rith's a target as soon as anyone at the table figures out how explosive she can be with Saprolings, or how fast she can kill with Commander damage given just a little boost. I don't honestly feel I'm anywhere near 75%, considering my budget, lack of tutors, and very strong flavor.
November 2, 2015 6:26 a.m. Edited.
elvennoble says... #20
Mycoloth is a must have with any token deck. The fact that rith gives you the tokens to sac already, and then rith's trigger increases with the new tokens, I would definitely recommend it.
November 3, 2015 8:10 p.m.
awalloftext says... #21
Hey, cool deck! Only thing that seems a little out of place is Volt Charge - I actually think that (although you've cut it), Goblin Bombardment is a better call!
Volt Charge is OK at what it does, but by my count, you have more token producers than cards that care about counters; Bombardment gives you reach and wrath protection, so I think it's a must have for this deck - give it another shot, I say.
November 4, 2015 11:12 p.m.
awalloftext and Lanzo493,
OK, I'm finally convinced ... Volt Charge and Contagion Clasp are out. And more sac' engine would definitely be nice, so Goblin Bombardment is back in.
With the proliferate effects out, I'm pulling Ajani Steadfast too. He's not the total hate-magnet so many Planeswalkers are. But he still takes more than his fair share of heat, just for being on the table. Spirit Mantle's in.
Not sure on the last slot. Wayfaring Temple for now, but I'm sure I'll be tweaking it some more when the Commander 2015 decklists come out!
November 6, 2015 12:11 a.m.
So for C15 updates, there are the Confluences: Fiery Confluence, Righteous Confluence, and Verdant Confluence. Of the three I'd lean towards the White one since it makes 2/2 Knights. Bastion Protector could help Rith punch through damage. Rite of the Raging Storm would be a sweet include for political shenanigans, and Arachnogenesis is sweet with your token producers. Bloodspore Thrinax would be neat if you wanted to help make your future creatures large and in charge. Ezuri's Predation feels like an auto include in any Green tokens deck. Pathbreaker Ibex also feels great with huge dragons and Saprolings who want to get pumped up.
November 7, 2015 11:50 p.m.
epicusername says... #24
My knee jerk reaction is to pull Pollenbright Wings and Saproling Burst in favor of recursion from Eternal Witness and Verdant Confluence. You should have plenty of token generation without them and the recursion is good for pesky people trying to blow up your Beastmaster Ascension or Aura Shards. Homeward Path is great in any deck with high value creatures like Utvara Hellkite as blue can't borrow all your stuff and smack you in the face with it. It will also save your life against a game ending Insurrection. I agree with the Pathbreaker Ibex include, maybe drop Descent of the Dragons in favor of it assuming you're targeting your tokens with it. I'd also recommend getting another early mana dork in there like Avacyn's Pilgrim. I'd replace Reconnaissance with it because the pilgrim will provide much more early value.
Lanzo493 says... #1
I would like to clarify Strionic Resonator to you. A triggered ability is defined as using the words "when", "whenever", or "at" (it says so in the reminder text). First of all, Atarka, World Render may use "whenever" but giving a creature 2 double strikes does nothing. It still only does damage twice. Beastmaster Ascension can get extra quest counters off of strionic resonator, but you can't double the +5/+5 because it isn't a triggered ability. Cathars' Crusade does work, and that's awesome. You know what's better than Contagion Clasp? Contagion Engine. And neither are triggered abilities, but activated abilities which have a ":" (cost : effect). But you can copy the enters the battlefield ability (you can copy Rith's triggered ability but be forced to play the 2G again).
Don't get me wrong, Strionic Resonator is very useful. However, for all intents and purposes, it is really only useful with a couple of your cards. Copying the abilities of Dragonmaster Outcast, Rith, Cathars' Crusade, Hellkite Charger, Preyseizer Dragon and maybe some other card's I missed. HOWEVER, it is almost ALWAYS a better idea to copy Rith's ability than anybody else's (that's because Rith's ability generates massive attacking/defending power and pumps a lot of your other cards in the process). You can also "copy" Rith's ability by giving him doublestrike via Fireshrieker.
I forgot to suggest Impact Tremors.
October 30, 2015 6:58 p.m.