The more I think about it the more I see Arlinn Kord  ^Flip being slightly disappointing in this deck. I will probably still test her, but what do you guys think about dropping the 2 Arlinn, and moving Kalitas to the side to make room for 3 Mindwrack Demon, Deathmist Raptor, or Thunderbreak Regent?

The_Riddlebox Yeah, I think in a build like this, she doesn't give that edge you'd want. I actually ended up moving my build to strictly G/B and going deeper into a reliance on Creature based abilities to interact.

PS: Dead Weight might be required to turn on your Traverse the Ulvenwald

PSS: Here's my list; A Shady Rock

I'd love any feedback you have, that goes to anyone who sees this. I appreciate it all!

How come there's no Olivia, Mobilized for War? It's really great, you can probably replace Fiery Impulse with Fiery Temper in a few situations and get more value from Den Protector with her!

I believe there were two of it in here, but they got removed because they did not seem to perform too well. I suppose it could support Mindwrack Demon.

toes_

Yeah, what NotSquishedYet said. I actually started with 3 in the deck, then ended cutting one to make space for other stuff, and after discussing it with another user I cam to this conclusion: Olivia needs to be drawn and played early to get the most advantage out of her, if not played early she isn't that useless but a 3/3 with Flying is very unimpressive late game. Maybe she has potential, but as the game goes longer I feel like she gradually loses value, and having only 2 in the deck is simply not worth the slots.

That said, even if I had Olivia, not sure I would run Fiery Temper, it wouldn't be enough discard outlet to warrant the sue, and I am also not caring much about he burn, as removal spell Fiery Impulse is just better, but if you are an aggressive deck then Temper probably is better as it can bolt an opponent as well. I however only need the removal and not the burn.

I wonder if it's a better call to completely remove the Fiery Impulse, as Dead Weight does a similar job, and put the Ultimate Price back in.

fiery impulse is way better then dead weight

kincx

Yes and no. Obviously it is 1cmc 2 damage, or 3 with Spell Mastery, at instant speed; which obviously sounds better than -2/-2 at sorcery speed. However, in case you have not noticed, there are a whole lot of creatures that are going to have 2 toughness or less in the new standard, not only that but Spell Mastery won't always be active in the early turns since this deck has a relatively low number of Instants/Sorceries. That being said, if you look at the last update I posted, I mentioned why I put in the Dead Weight. Since I might try out Mindwrack Demon, getting delirium as soon as possible is very needed, and having Enchantments that are easy to get into the graveyard definitely helps, and if we go back to the fact that a lot of decks are going to be running 2 toughness or less creatures then Dead Weight acts like a sorcery speed Fiery Impulse that also makes it easier to enable Delirium. Enabling Delirium also helps with Deathcap Cultivator and Traverse the Ulvenwald.

May I recommend Sin Prodder, after playing with it any against it this weekend I now realize it's serious power.. Also in this deck you can bring stuff back from the yard

cdunn92483

Thanks for the suggestion. I am glad to hear that it did well in testing in a sealed event, which may not mean it is good in constructed, but it does mean it definitely could be. I originally had Sin Prodder in the deck, it was actually the main reason why I initially wanted to run Jund colors. The problem became that the deck was a little too lackluster, that meant I had to make cuts. The only card I could see cutting to make room for it is Tireless Tracker as it does a similar purpose: offers card advantage. If it looks like that the Tracker under-performs, I will definitely try out the Prodder in its place, until then I really don't have any room for it, unless I cut Arlinn Kord  ^Flip and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, which I would rather cut for something like Mindwrack Demon or Thunderbreak Regent.

Having played Wolves at a prerelease yesterday, you are not cutting Arlinn. Not a chance in hell. Games where I did not draw her were grindy and close, with many opportunities for my opponent to crush me with good plays. Games where I drew her, I didn't even have opposition. I won all of them with ease, and she never died.

I also highly recommend Vessel of Nascency and Kindly Stranger  ^Flip. Turn 3 Delirium with draw-fixing and digging was AMAZING. The Stranger was valuable, and game one was conceded as I used Arlinn's -6, played the Stranger, flipped it to kill Drogskol Cavalry, and tapped it to kill Thing in the Ice  ^Flip with two counters.

1) Have you found you need Traverse the Ulvenwald for manafixing? If not, do you have Delirium consistently? I really feel like, unless in testing you really need it for manafixing, it's only good if you have Delirium consistently. Otherwise you could go down on it and put in some other removal.One thing to consider with Sin Prodder, which is admittedly a card I really like, is that it does dump things into your graveyard if your opponent chooses to, which can turn on Delirium faster. Especially considering they'll always throw something like Dead Weight in the yard even if they don't have creatures you can kill with it-- meaning you wouldn't have any other way to get it in there.

2) Again, I haven't tested your manafixing yet, but I've been testing my own similar build and even with four Deathcap Cultivators it can be pretty difficult to get double colors, including double black. It'll be hard to know before the meta is stable, but you should consider Ultimate Price or even To the Slaughter mainboard instead of Grasp of Darkness in my opinion. It'll be easier on your mana, and all of your other removal is already conditional on p/t. The one big draw of running black is that you get "destroy" effects instead of "damage" effects! I saw you considered this already, but even against things like Avacyn-- Ultimate Price is fine removal except for the turn she comes down, which will probably be a flash in anyway.

3) I don't think you need Goldnight Castigator in the sideboard. Your deck is not super aggro, and she's more of a finisher for a fast deck than something you want sticking around on your board. I just can't think of any matchup where you want to bring her in.

I've got a bunch of Jund/Gruul lists on my page if you want to check them out to see what I'm up to!

NotSquishedYet

I don't want to cut Arlinn, I really hope she works like a champ, but if she is underwhelming and doesn't impact the board-state that hard she is getting the axe for something that will.

I am really not sold on the Vessels, I think they are all pretty bad. It might be good in limited, but in constructed I really don't like it. It does help Delirium, but I feel like it is a very MEH card. The same goes for Kindly Stranger  ^Flip, that's a a lot of mana invested on a very mediocre creature just to get it to transform and kill a creature. I would rather just run a removal at that point. That combo might be fine in limited, but in constructed it seems clunky and slow.

As always I might be terribly wrong in evaluating new cards, but one thing to keep in mind is that what works in limited does not always work in constructed.

abby315

I can't say I tested this deck a whole lot. Traverse the Ulvenwald acts as more than just manafix, which you are aware of considering some of your comments later on. It allows me to manafix, while offering value in the late game and allows me to have a slight "tool box" feel to the deck by running a couple of 1 of bombs or situational creatures. It is also an additional card type that gets thrown in the bin to enable Delirium, and I feel like it helps with early plays that do require black mana. Overall I am not sure how to judge how badly this deck need mana fixing due to the lack of testing. I do agree that Sin Prodder does help with getting Delirium online, and I like the card too, but the problem that I keep running into is the lack of spots in the deck. As I mentioned in a reply to another user if Tracker is under-performing I will try Prodder in it's place as they are the same cmc and both are supposed to act as a sort of card advantage engine.

You make a good point on running Ultimate Price over Grasp of Darkness because of the mana intensity. The only worry I have is that I am not sure how many staple threats will be multicolored vs. monocolored. I feel that 4 toughness is going to pretty much cover almost every creature in standard shy of something like a flipped Avacyn or Thing in the Ice  ^Flip, but similarly there are going to be a whole lot more monocolored creatures this rotation as well. This will require testing and exploring the meta a bit more. I could always replace Fiery Impulse with Ultimate Price, and add more black mana producing lands so I wouldn't have as big of an issue casting Grasp of Darkness and just have more well rounded removal in the main period.

Goldnight Castigator is a very aggressive creature thanks to having Haste stapled on there. This mid-range beater would be sided in against Ramp/Control matchups where the deck operates slower than most other decks and where I need to win as fast as possible before they get their threats online. Castigator, thanks to the haste, requires an instant speed response at hand or it smacks you in the face for 4 right off the bat. I am not the best at deck building, so maybe this is a terrible choice, but only testing and seeing the meta will be able to tell if Castigator is a terrible card, or all star answer to slower decks. One thing to note is that the Castigator is one hell of a walker killer too.

The_Riddlebox "You make a good point on running Ultimate Price over Grasp of Darkness because of the mana intensity."

My counterpoint to this; Eldrazi/Devoid creatures are going to be a large part of standard still. You won't interact in the slightest with Ramp and any Eldrazi based build. I recommend just sticking to Grasp and toying with the mana base.

AlgrinStonecloak

That's also a good point. I can't say i am overly worried about Eldrazi, and any Eldrazi that's of any real threat to this deck, especially if from ramp, is going to have toughness greater than 4. Regardless, like I hin't in the remainder of the reply, if I move Ultimate Price back in it would be in Place of Fiery Impulse as to warrant an increase in red mana. As it stands, Grasp is staying.

If I may say, I don't think you should play deathcap. Having one ramp creature seems weird, and ramping isn't what the deck does. You want card advantage, and deathcap isn't. granted he turns into a removal spell if you have delirium, but i don't think that's justification for that. I would rather run something that's more jundy, that slows your opponent down, or provides great card advantage.

@Stephenburgin106 @The_Riddlebox I think you're right! I just realized the only thing missing from a list like this is Duress and/or Transgress the Mind.This deck could also consider Pick the Brain Think about it, You play it turn 3 to pick a relevant card helping you play your game the next few turns. THEN you get to flash it back with Goblin Dark-Dwellers and likely trigger the Delirium for EXTRA value. That's pretty sweet. I think Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Pick the Brain could be really good friends in this deck.

I'm more of a transgress person myself, I feel like three mana is a lot for a thoughtseize that exiles since most card you'd pick would be transgressable by then anyway, and by going transgress instead delirium isn't a concern, and doesn't need to be worried about.

Stephenburgin106

He isn't here to ramp, he is here to color fix. I look at him literally as another playset of Hissing Quagmire. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it, and maybe I should drop him especially because he does clash with Sylvan Advocate for the same spot on the curve. What would you suggest I replace him with?

AlgrinStonecloak

I had Duress/Transgress in the MB, then ended up moving it them to the side board, and then ended up cutting them completely. That may have been a mistake and will try to find a spot for them back into the side, not sure how I like them in the main board for this build. I am not a big fan of Pick the Brain it's an expensive Thoughtseize, that needs delirium to make it act like a sort of Slaughter Games; I would just rather have Duress or Transgress the Mind instead.

Thank you both for the suggestions.

I would put transgress over the deathcap. I love discard effects, and they help jund out greatly. Part of why you need more color fixing is because you aren't running but one rb dual! If I were you, I'd play 4 smoldering marsh, 2 foreboding ruin, 4 game trail, 2 cinder glade, 4 hissing quagmire, 4 forest 3 swamp, 2 mountain and that should provide enough colored sources for you to be fine. I'd also consider swapping traverse the ulvenwald with oath of nissa. It's less powerful without delirium, but you don't have to try and enable delirium for it to be good. Oath is a more powerful card on average, because Traverse is going to be more limited in choice usually. It's going to tutor lands more often then not, and oath is extremely likely to hit lands anyway, while also being able to snag a threat if need be.

After reading some articles about the coming rotation, what cards have been underrated and so on after being tested, I will make some possibly major changes to the deck.

Also, Stephenburgin106, as far as having black mana goes, I purposefully didn't add more duals because I honestly don't need much red early on. I need to secure green and if I needed black for removal I had 7 ways of fetching it and 4 ways of fixing for it. Not just that, but cutting G/R duals for B/R duals lowers my chances of having green in my opening hand, if anything I might add in a couple of Llanowar Wastes to have more G/B duals other than the Hissing Quagmire.

with how your manabase is set up, you have 21 sources of green in the deck including death cap. That's insanely high considering you don't have a single double green card in the deck, yet you have both double red cards and double black cards. under the landing i suggested, you could go up a RG dual, or a forest, and have 15 sources. that's enough to have one source opening hand on average, and that should be the only green source you'd need for most of the game. By turn 5 ish, you should see a second source if needed. You're playing both grasp of darkness AND kalitas. I'm playing a BWC deck, and my god!I couldn't play grasp in a deck with so few black sources. I have like 20 in mine and have trouble hitting that on curve, you may not want to hit it on curve necessarily, but between it, deadweight, and kolaghan's command, I'd say you want one in your opening hand. so why search for it, and waste a spell slot, when you can make your manabase more black acceptable? this deck seems like a RB midrange deck with a splash of green. That might be oddly put, but without traverse and deathcap you have 10 cards or so that are green. I feel like if you pulled away from trying to be so green, your mana base would be better, because you wouldn't need a green source until turn three, and even then you wouldn't NEED it until arlin's supposed to come down.

Ireally only care to hit red turn 4 and on, the biggest thing red is in here for is Chandra, as Atarka is likely getting the axe. I guess I do also have Impulse but I am not worried about it too much. Most of the cards in this deck are green, hence the emphasis on wanting green. However, Stephenburgin106, you do make a good point in that the green cards I do have only require a single source of green and will take that into consideration.

I will make changea as soon as I get out of work.

Pretty big overhaul here, and maybe not for the best, but I want to try these changes out.

The manabase will need to be reworked to match the changes made to the deck soon, just didn't have the time to do it today.

Man, I hate to keep gettin on you for this, the mana base DOES look better, but I would still find room for some smoldering marsh in here. Like, drop one of each basic for 3 of em, you have even more black now and it's still your least represented color, and now you're trying to make mindwrack demon work? that thing's at it's scariest on turn four, on the play, and that's gonna be extremely hard for you to hit. Last time I comment for the mana base, i promise.

Secondly, why pulse of murassa? You have enough things that recur from your graveyard as is between kolaghan's command and den den. I'd just play another command or something in that spot, and if it's the life gain that sways you, play something that makes the life gain not needed. I'd rather have an answer rather then life gain. i get that it can be advantage with dwellers, but dwellers can generate better advantage with other cards.I'd also try to be more consistent with your kill spells, and you don't have a lot of answers for the threats that will matter in this format, such as archangel of tithes, ojutai, reality smasher, or archangel avacyn. 2 of those you CAN grasp situationally, but only having two main deck to answer both threats sounds like you're asking for trouble. In all honesty, I would look to swapping black to white. Right now white has better removal, better threats, more planeswalkers for you to have access to, and the manabase for it would be skewed green like you like as your lands would be like canopy vista and cinderglade, allowing you to just dump plains in there for stuff like gideon, stasis snare, or silkwrap, not to mention dromoka's command, and a host of other powerful cards.