so i play a blue counter deck and i have a blue white prison deck and in my play group we have a stax player and i have to say i dont really see how this deck functions?

you dont really have any big creatures to beat face with. and thus i cannot see a clear win con that is reliable every time. the thing with Nevermore is that you have to know what decks you are facing. Dig Through Time is ridiculously expensive and you can get almost the same effect from a Ponder and a Brainstorm which cost less than a third of what Dig Through Time does. Static Orb and Winter Orb both affect you as well so unless you are in the ideal board state, which will be less than 5% of the time, its not worth running them in this deck. I see a lot of potential in the deck but theres too many different areas that you are branching into. If you want lock commit fully to lock, same with stax, if you want to make players pay then you have to commit fully to it. Detention Sphere is good but only good for one card. and once it is removed they get their card back! This means that anyone with a Revoke Existence or Return to Dust or Austere Command or any one of a thousand other enchantment removals that are in regular rotation with edh, will make short work of your Detention Sphere. Omniscience seems good but in reality it is just way to expensive to do any good in edh. Path to Exile is alright for spot removal, but im not a fan of giving your opponent anything so id opt for something like Wing Shards. although path isnt terrible. Pact of Negation is terrible. you counter one spell and potentially fuck yourself on the next turn. just take it out. there are any number of more reliable counters that dont cost 5 and that dont have the potential to make you loose the game. If i ever saw anyone cast this i would calmly wait until the end of their next untap phase and then Mana Short or Turnabout them so that way they were guaranteed to loose and i know that you are going to say oh thats what i have Negate for, but the reality of playing against any seasoned blue player is that they are going to have a counter for that as well or even a Redirect. Into the Roil is ok for bounce but again if you are playing a bounce deck commit to it and play something like Snap. you are playing Rest in Peace but no Helm of Obedience?? one doesnt go without the other. Steelshaper's Gift is good but you only have 5 equipment cards in the whole deck which in my mind doesnt really warrant wasting a card searching for them since you can just draw them out. Stoneforge Mystic is also ok but not worth having in the deck to search for 1 of 5 cards. ontop of that you have to pay two to get the card onto the battle field which is not really great since the most expensive equipment card you have is only 3. Any player that runs counters would know to counter any of the cards that seem to give you the advantage, which forces you to either counter back which will waste the one you have or put it in the graveyard. Now imagine if someone counters your Sun Titan or Phyrexian Metamorph which are the only two cards that could allow you to stomp face.

Anyway im not trying to be overly critical or mean because i see a lot of potential with this deck. Just trying to make you aware.

Cheers

@dash.secrets, I feel like you didn't even READ my primer. I'm gonna refute each point you made that I don't agree with, which is all of them.

-The win con is literally commander damage. I run 4 of the best equipment cards in magic. This deck plays like Cawblade- a deck that always had access to a creature (in this case, my commander) which it used to just control the board pound-for-pound, then use the repeatable effects on sword to win. I don't need big creatures to win. The win condition is to stall your opponents until they are out of options, then swing in with your commander and make big advantage through on hit effects. Also, I run Bribery and Gilded Drake; I don't need my own win cons, I'll stall and then borrow yours.

-Nevermore is great against commander-centric decks. Either get Nevermore out before their commander or just stall around then plop it down. Also I play with the same people a lot so, yes, I do know their decks.

-Dig Through Time allows me to dig 7 cards deep at instant speed for a paltry 2 mana. I don't use my graveyard- I run one source of reanimation, Sun Titan, and a Snapcaster Mage for a body and a copy of the best spell in my yard. So why shouldn't I play a delve card? Argument can be made for Treasure Cruise, sure, but I don't need a ton of little cantrips. Instead I'm just packing my deck with all the best responses I can fit. Plus looking 7 deep in response to a spell is incredible- the other day I used Dig to find a counterspell at the 7th card in.

-You think I just go "OH I drew Winter Orb, WINDMILL SLAM!!!!!"?? There is no way I would EVER play Arbiter without at least Winter Orb. You don't play it until you're either ahead a ton or your opponents are all tapped out and just out of gas. Plus I run Sword of Feast and Famine for a reason.

-I don't need to make players pay 5 extra per spell. I used to do that, but it was unnecessary. Against bad decks, setting them off by 1-2 extra mana means their random 8 drop splashy spells are just gonna be outside their reach. Against finely tuned competitive decks set up to function at so many lands and so many rocks, the slight increase in their curve throws their game off so much that they're in a constant state of 1-2 turns behind.

-Detention Sphere is in here as it is an amazing answer to token armies (kills all of them), a decently costed removal spell, and an out in my deck against planeswalkers. If you assume people ALWAYS have the answers to your spells 100% of the time, you're gonna be way too scared to ever even cast anything.

-I'm not trying to cast Omniscience almost ever. I cheat it into play by killing Academy Rector.

-Path to Exile isn't good??? Are you serious right now??? It is tied for the CHEAPEST white removal spell- 1 mana, exile a creature? You can't have that with literally 0 downside, the land they get is fair as hell and almost not important in EDH. Wing Shards can't target- so if you throw a 20/20 and a 1/1 token at me, I drop Shards, oh no, you choose to sacrifice the token! (I used to play Wing Shards too, btw- cut it a looong time ago.)

-First of all your scenario with Pact of Negation is impossible. No player has priority on the untap stap, so if you cast spells on that phase, you cannot. The earliest you get priority on a turn is upkeep. I will give you that if the stack is Pact trigger, then Mana Short, even though I can tap my lands to produce mana, you still drain them before I can use them for Pact. But your Turnabout example does not work at all- I'll just float all my mana in response to your turnabout, then use it for the trigger. Secondly, Pact is absolutely nuts. You seem to just assume I'm playing this deck braindead, not taking into account what the game state looks like. If I'm in a situation where casting Pact might make me lose, I won't cast it. But 9 times out of 10, the card is absolutely insane. Opposing combo player sees the control deck tapped out? He'll go for the combo all in with complete disregard, then you just Pact them and destroy their combo. Also I think your argument of counter wars is funny. You assume I'll say I have the answer, then IMMEDIATELY assume you have the answer to that answer? You don't see the hypocrisy in that?

-Into the Roil is a swiss-army knife. In Arbiter it costs as little as U, can just cycle for a new card if it's totally dead in my hand, can pick up ANY non-land, not just creatures, and can go on Isochron Scepter. Also, if I put it on the Scepter and have Winter Orb, I can pick up the Orb end of turn before mine, untap ALL my lands, replay Orb, all while kicking Roil to draw a card while I'm at it. all Snap can get is creatures.

-I play against enough graveyard decks that I want the Rest in Peace. I myself barely even use a graveyard. While Helm of Obedience is a win con for the deck, I'd rather not add a second card that does potentially nothing by itself, and just run a card with 2 CMC. The opportunity cost of playing RiP is so low that it is worth just plopping it in the 99.

-Steelshaper's Gift is a 1 mana tutor to grab somne of the best 4 cards in my deck and put them into my hand. Stoneforge Mystic does the same thing, and she doesn't even need to cast the equipment, meaning she is insane if she gets in against another control deck. The difference between paying 1W to put a card out by an ability and paying 2-3 to CAST it, where it can be countered, is phenomenal. Also, you say I only have 5 cards to get with it. 4 of those cards are Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Feast and Famine, Sword of War and Peace, and Umezawa's Jitte. These cards alone will win the game if they go unchecked. I don't need 15 random crappy equipment when both of those cards only tutor once when they're used. I run Gift, Enlightened Tutor, and Mystic literally as extra copies 2-4 of whichever sword I need for whichever matchup.

-You missed Consecrated Sphinx, Serra Ascendant, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence for my good creatures.

I'm not trying to be a dick, and I prefer not to tell someone they're wrong on a game, which is subjective and opinion based, but frankly, you're wrong.

you say all of this but all it would take is a Declaration of Naught to defeat your commander ever coming out.

im just saying if you were to play this deck in my meta you would get facerolled in very short order and then cry your way home.

sup "Opal is getting" Banned ;)

Have you considered putting Helm of the Host into the deck because the shenanigans on Grand Arbiter are hilarious.

@Evellios Absolutely not. That is just way too win more, and needing to amass 9 mana total to set that up is absurd.

my arbitor deck has more views than the primer lol

also for the record any person would see the helm obedience combo long before you can get it online. at my table the second either of these cards came out they would simple get countered or destroyed.

dash.secrets You misunderstand how the deck works then. I’m not just casting my combo as soon as I can- I play the long game. The other players will either be too locked out to play against my combo, or they’ll be out of counters/removal because they were forced to spend it on other threats. In no way do I need RipHelm to win every game, and honestly it’s maybe 1 out of 4 games ends that way. It’s just a threat that my opponents are forced to respect, and sometimes lets me steal games I shouldn’t have otherwise won.

you have rip helm listed as your only wincon also further down you have rest in peace listed as "the most important card in the deck"

100% as soon as any of these cards hit the table they would be destroyed or countered. With either of these being out of wincon possibilities this deck will grind to a halt. Sure in a perfect world its easy to imagine the lock happening all the time, but the reality is that most times (especially if its a pod you play with often) as soon as you lay it down someone is going to be waiting to destroy it.

another thing is that you have 11 creatures in the deck. I have 16 in mine and Ive defiantly run into games where all 16 were destroyed which means you need to have more lock in place....which you dont have much of

you have tons of land and rocks and tons of draw but not tons of the other things that allow you to lock and win

This is all my humble opinion though. do what you want and play magic for fun

Why no rhystic study?

i have no idea how this deck manages to accomplish anything. theres simple not enough of anything to actually do anything. my conclusion is that you have to just be playing against newer people

Just a quick fist-bump of solidarity. We each run slightly different iterations and philosophies of the Pope, but at the base level, a lot of our decks are the same and that was completely by accident. Trial and error has shown that certain cards just "work" with him, and I've never played a general that was quite as polarizing, or imposing once the kinks are ironed out.

Loved the list, and It's given me a few ideas if/when the meta ever shifts here.

For reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-defy-you-3/

While I'm here: Have you considered Sunder, Whir of Invention, Transmute Artifact?

@Fu3lman: If I was playing Sunder I'd rather just be on Armageddon. I've considered Whir/Transmute for more redundancy/ ease on getting Helm, but while it is the best way to win, it's not the only way, since I just have a bunch of stupid grindy value engines that will mean I'll kill everyone somehow. I just don't think I need them, but I would not fault you if you edited this list to have them.

Can't argue with that. Since posting, Sunder has come out due to slightly underperforming. On the other hand, I've QUICKLY come to realize that Whir of Invention is an incredibly powerful card that can give what would normally be proactive artifact strategies reactive potential (think Orb effects, or SoFeFa if you're already under that lock) and can even allow you to circumvent Winter Orb for one turn by merit of the semi-convoke/tapping orb to help pay for it at end of opponent's turn. I've become a true believer of that card. If it means anything, I would 100% take Transmute out before I took it out. But that's just me :D

Before I forget, another card that I can't help but bring up is Thalia's Lancers. Your deck has (7) heavy-hitting targets for their tutor, and is effectively 4cmc for a 4/4 first-striking body for Swords/Jitte.

Fu3lman Nah there’s no way I’d want Lancers. Way too high a CMC for too small power level- Sun Titan and Torrential Gearhulk are good because at that cost, the card needs to be doing something more than just tutoring things to my hand, it needs to make a big impact right away.

This is still one of my favourite EDH builds. Any plans to update the decklist to the current meta?

unwucht Thanks dude! I’m debating slotting in some new hate cards, an Approach of the Second Sun wincon, maybe retooling a few of the instants around. What specific things are you referencing in the “new meta”? Always up for thoughtful suggestions!

Archon of Emeria might be a decent card to slow things down even further and it comes with a flying body. So maybe it is considered to be worth the 3 CMC. Drannith Magistrate is my current personal hate card (who would prevent players from playing their commanders?) but is definitely fitting to this deck idea. Still, as this deck is not creature heavy and aims to not be, I am a bit unsure if those two cards would fit to your deck.

unwucht I think Archon isn’t strong enough, but I actually have a Hushbringer and a Magistrate in the mail. Actually thinking of cutting Umezawa’s Jitte as well for more room, it underperforms too often. Was also thinking of cutting Glen Elendra Archmage, Terminus, and/or Fact or Fiction. You’re correct on creature counts; I want to keep mine low.

Umezawa's Jitte is a good card, but I personally would be totally fine exchanging it with a third sword.

Hokori, Dust Drinker could be an excellent insert in this deck, even if it is a creature.

Interesting update for sure! Thanks for keeping this up to date!