But he says "Combo", so which combo does he mean?

The doomsday combo usually involves Laboratory Maniac. Doomsday into Gush, drawing a counterspell (or orim's chant) and frantic search. Frantic,put the lab maniac into your gy, Unearth it and probe/street wraith for the win.

Many other ways to pull it through as well,so he is right when he says it is very popular in competetive decks.

I assumed they were well enough known to be immediately recognized. My apologies.

Ad Nauseam combo in EDH is a combo that involves casting Ad Nauseam followed by Angel's Grace, allowing you to draw an enormous portion of your library in a single turn. The win condition varies depending on the owner's preference. Some use Sickening Dreams to deal 80+ damage to the entire table. Others use Laboratory Maniac and a cheap instant speed cantrip. Both are essentially guaranteed wins, since you'll have drawn into 2-3 free counterspells, and enough free mana to cast the necessary combo pieces and protect them with the aforementioned counterspells. There are also a few variants that try to rack up a storm count and win via Tendrils of Agony, but that's more for French EDH.

Doomsday is a little more complicated. It involves casting Doomsday with a few mana open and stacking the appropriate "pile" of of spells that allow you to win on the same turn. The pile differs depending on opponents, board states, and other factors, making it an extremely difficult combo to master. A knowledgeable pilot can win in nearly any situation with it though.

Both combos have the capability of going off as early as turn 3 with fair consistency if needed.

link to Ad Nauseam list

Link to Doomsday list

Ad Nauseam tends to require less slots, and is overall marginally stronger, so I would recommend playing around with it first.

Thank you, that makes a lot more sense.

I was also considering using Children of Korlis + Vizkopa Guildmage with Necropotence or even Ad Nauseam as was suggested by a commentor a while back whose name I have forgotten.

That was me :3

Ah! Thank you Sleazebag, I may have forgotten your name, but not your suggestion :)

Ok, so I have tinkered with my list and come up with this: #SorryNotSorry Redux

I also tweaked the mana rocks to allow for more colour fixing versus colourless.

What do you guys think? Should I roll this into the real list?

(If you like the new list, please say so here, as the other deck is only temporary)

First off - I love this list. It is really good, even though I would have done some things differently.

Regarding the alternate list.

I like that you took out

• Liliana of the Veil as she is just not good enough in EDH
• Well of Lost Dreams as it just too expensive
• Hanna, Ship's Navigator not enough value in the new list, and I would probably not run her in this list either.
• Transmute Artifact not enough value in the new list, and I'm unsure why you would run it in this.

With your very optimized land base, I don't see the need for the extra signets, especially since they will be dead draws mid to late game. I would keep Mana Vault, Mana Crypt and Grim Monolith in the lineup instead.

I don't see Children of Korlis make any real impact, so I'd not run that. If it is just to combo with Ad Nauseam I'd probably run neither.

How is Sickening Dreams worth the slot? I must be missing something, otherwise I find it way too situational.

I'm wondering why you have chosen not to run Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond ? It fits the list perfecly, and each cards works fine on its own.

I like that you added Vizkopa Guildmage and Angel's Grace to the list. I'd find room for those in this list as well.

Since money does not seem to be an issue, I would add Grim Tutor and maybe Imperial Seal (or Beseech the Queen).

Cheers

Cheers

MrHighscore, thanks for the feedback, you make some great points that I will consider.

Regarding a few of your questions:

• I made a choice long ago not to run the usual Oloro instant win combos. Because of that, there is no Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond , Test of Endurance, or Felidar Sovereign
• The reason for adding Sickening Dreams is to either combo with Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace , or to utilize a grip full of cards along with Necropotence + Venser's Journal (Journal not necessary), which is a board state I actively seek and often have
• Children of Korlis + Vizkopa Guildmage + Ad Nauseam or Necropotence can win games

Please continue to comment if you have other thoughts

Thanks for clearing that up.

It seems like an 'all eggs in one basket' strategy to go negative with Ad Nauseam to insta-win with Sickening Dreams. Even if you make it un-counterable with Boseiju, Who Shelters All it can still be prevented/reduced/reversed/whatnot :) I'm not a fan, and I think the original list is superior.

I respect the reasoning for not running Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond . How about Sorin Markov, is he too ordinary (or too high casting cost) for your deck?

Cheers

When drawing your entire deck in one turn, you also draw every counterspell. It's not that easy to disrupt.

I get that, but still - The base combo is + + + + . Pact of Negation will protect it for free, but the other counterspells are at minimum + .

Since there are many combo pieces, it is also vulnerable to ingest like strategies.

Cheers

You do have a valid point MrHighscore but it would be a pretty cool way to win.

I'm still interested for other opinions on the proposed changes above

That said, it would be a cool way to win!

If you choose that route, I'd recommend that you replace Arcane Denial with Force of Will so you have two free counters in your arsenal.

If you change strategy, and if exile-from-library strategies are common in your meta, I'd also recommend that you add Cunning Wish and Death Wish.

Cheers

MrHighscore: Unfortunately, exile does not count as a zone outside of the game anymore (and hasn't for many many years). So Cunning Wish and Death Wish can't fetch an exiled combopiece.

Ouch! Then what can you do?

Prevent them from exiling stuff I suppose..

Yeah theres really not much "anti-exile" in the game beside counter magic.

btw Ender "Proposed changes above", you mean Highscores comment. Yeah?

Oh, no. I linked to a revised decklist a bit further up, but here it is again:#SorryNotSorry Redux

Alrighty,

IMO I like the Redux list a lot more. you cut a bunch of the low impact cards in favor of things that would impact the game more.

My only beef with the new list is Thassa, God of the Sea. You dont run enough creatures that her Unblockable ability is relevant and you run enough draw engines that her scry ability is a lot weaker than it would be otherwise. A "Free" counter would be a lot better here.

Have you tried:

Starfield of Nyx - You dont drop it and become the creature deck. you board wipe, then play it and swing lethal after a few turns of stacking enchantments. its a sweet alt win con.

Spreading Plague - One of my favorite cards in my build. but my bias towards board wipes may be skewing my judgement on how good this one is.

MrHighscore, Ender666666: Well, there does exist one option with Pull from Eternity... Or restarting the game with Karn Liberated ultimate. All in all, not worth the effort, but it IS possible!

I like the idea of Pull from Eternity, and may just have to get a copy "just because".

Have you thought about adding your changes to this decks sideboard, so you can go back and forth between the 2 strategies? I mean you do get a 10 card sideboard in commander ;).