Swords to Plowshares isn't modern legal Suns_Champion, the modern legal alternative is Path to Exile which I do like more than Condemn.
The other major problem I see is that you aren't interacting with the board until T3 most games and even then its only a single pillowfort piece... The Hyper Aggro decks will go right under your defenses most of the time and without ramp, you won't reach your pillow forts fast enough. It seems well enough for a budget deck but most tiered decks can find ways around this.
September 10, 2017 8:14 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #3
Ohh shoot. Commander player here. Didn't realize that it wasn't legal haha
Yeah it's not bad for a budget build. Good luck!!
September 10, 2017 8:56 p.m. Edited.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #4
Thanks for the feedback folks! I didn't expect a response so soon, it's really cool.
Like Zaueski said, Swords to Plowshares would be better if it were modern legal, but sadly it isn't. Otherwise, yes, that would be a better choice.
As for Peek... Well, I can't disagree with your assertion that it is useful, however it isn't completely essential either. Once an opponent has played a card there are likely to be more copies, and against more competitive decks it isn't honestly too hard to guess what the other cards they have are. Plus while it isn't technically a dead draw, with a Telepathy in play it's really just cycling. Not ruling it out though, just not sure if there's anyplace to squeeze it in that it would actually add value.
I expected the Path to Exile suggestion early on, but to be honest I'm not sure I see why it would be better. Sure, it can remove non-attacking creatures, and it exiles instead of tucking them, but it gives them a land of their choice from their deck. Letting people be ahead on land for the rest of the game doesn't seem as good of a trade to me as giving them a little life, especially where I don't care what their life is and am trying to slow down their play. I'd love if you could elaborate on it for me.
You also bring up a very good point about the speed of top-tier decks being an issue. If fact, it's been the most prevalent issue I've seen thus far in my playtesting. Do you have any suggestions for what could be swapped in/out to make the deck run faster?
September 10, 2017 8:58 p.m.
Yes, but it heavily increases the budget... A playset of Chalice of the Void would help astronomically. You have almost no one drops so being able to set a chalice on one slows down a ton of decks. Sadly, there's not much mana ramp in UW for T1 so it'd probably involve a color change.
TBH, moving forward into the competitive realms... I see this deck going artifacts instead of enchantments and becoming Lantern Control or dropping Blue for Red and becoming Sun & Moon... This iteration can steal some wins, but against a lot of decks you just wont get enough lock pieces fast enough.
September 10, 2017 9:35 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #6
Yeah, Chalice of the Void is really out of the question, a single copy costs more than the rest of the deck put together. Any suggestions that won't cost an arm and a leg? The deck isn't aiming to be super competitive, just as good as it can be on a reasonable budget.
September 10, 2017 9:50 p.m.
Scion of Primal Hunter says... #7
I love this, and i say that even if i'm an' "go wild" player! +1
October 8, 2017 8:49 a.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #8
@Scion of Primal Hunter:Thanks for the support! Do you have any suggestions to help improve the deck? It is very much a work in progress, after all.
October 9, 2017 12:45 p.m.
Interesting deck.
You may want to use Swords to Plowshares as a replacement. It's a cheaper Path to Exile with a similar effect as Condemn.
I don't know anything about card legality though.
October 9, 2017 1:22 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #10
@kosuk4: Unfortunately, Swords to Plowshares isn't Modern legal. Otherwise, I would absolutely use it over Condemn
October 9, 2017 1:30 p.m.
A few suggestions:
Budget: Skywise Teachings for blockers against creature heavy/ infect decks or as an additional wincon, Render Silent for vs Control, Dovin Baan for a Planeswalker addition, and Mirage Mirror.
Non-Budget: Greater Auramancy
October 10, 2017 4:47 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #12
@ Wyldemage: Thank you for the suggestions! I do, however, have reservations about each of these cards. If you think I'm wrong in my criticisms, by all means I would love to hear your thoughts on them more in-depth, but here are the issues I see.
Skywise Teachings: This doesn't seem like a very good card to me. not only does it cost 4 to cast a card that does nothing on it's own (except count towards enchantments), but it takes another 2 every time you want to activate it, all for a single 2/2 creature with flying. Spot removal is cheaper than these chump blockers, and without mana ramp we rarely have lots of extra mana floating around. It really just seems far too slow, and too weak for its cost.
Render Silent: I love this card, and have strongly considered adding it for flavor alone. However, three mana is a lot to hold up for a counterspell, and where we don't run many instants keeping mana up for it is hurting our board state progression a lot. Plus, once this card does get played, an opponent can still cast any number of instants before it resolves. Again, this really seems to boil down to being too slow. I could see something like Silence, but this is in just the wrong spot on our curve.
Dovin Baan: I might be able to see this one going in, though I have a hard time justifying what cards it might replace. Most of our high cost cards do more work, while our low cost cards are really important for staving off other decks until we get bigger pieces in play. I just can't see where this card would fit in without doing more harm than good.
Mirage Mirror: This card seems interesting. It is another 3 drop, which is concerning given that this is already our peak for our mana curve. It also costs another 2 every time we use it, which isn't fun, but being able to briefly make extra copies of any of our permanents, OR our opponents? It could be good... but again, I just don't know what to remove. I'd also want a second opinion on this one, it feels like it could be a trap.
October 11, 2017 6:43 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #13
Edit: After a quick bit of research, I have to rule out Mirage Mirror altogether. Since it isn't entering the battlefield when it copies cards and doesn't attach if copying auras, the only cards of mine worth copying ever are Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety, which both do the same thing and neither of which I need more of. That just leaves copying an opponent, and given how this deck would use that (mostly chump blocking) a total of 5 mana is just too high.
October 11, 2017 7:01 p.m.
I think Dovin Baan is at least worth sideboarding. His +1 isn't very strong, but his -1 gives us card advantage, and his ultimate could help is us against a "go wide" strategy if we haven't managed to draw into Sphere or Ghostly Prison. Just the thoughts of a newb still learning. I appreciate your insight and thinking in your other analysis. I'm.currently working on a similar deck, and getting other opinions has been useful.
This is a suggestion for a one drop card advantage and scry. Brainstorm It helps us draw into cards we might need either in the early or late game, or possibly help fix lands.
October 12, 2017 2:53 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #17
The main issue is that Vapor Snag returns a creature to it's owner's hand, whereas Condemn tucks it away instead. The life change is irrelevant since the deck has no way of winning by damage deal, and while Condemn does require the opponent to be attacking with the creature, unless we already have a Nevermore effect naming that card a creature that has been bounced could just be played again next turn. Condemn, while more situational in when you can use it, is much better at actually making the creature stay gone.
That said, Vapor Snag or even Unsummon don't seem like terrible additions...
October 12, 2017 8:53 p.m.
It falls in that pesky CMC 3 spot, but is Aura of Silence worth including or sideboarding?
October 17, 2017 9:05 p.m.
Disciple_of_Doran says... #19
Aura of Silence is a good card, but I don't think it's good enough to fit in this deck. The extra cost only happens once at casting (as opposed to cards like Ghostly Prison potentially costing every turn), and most artifacts and enchantments that affect us negatively need other cards also in play to be useful, so just banning the relevant cards that go with them with Nevermore effects can often hit 2 birds with 1 stone.
Suns_Champion says... #1
It's evil and I love it!
Don't you think I'd be worth running 2 more Peeks? They seem so crucial to your gameplan and aren't dead draws like multiples of Telepathy.
Also: Swords to Plowshares over Condemn? It'd only be $8 for a significant upgrade.
September 10, 2017 8 p.m. Edited.