CapitonMurfish says... #2
So how was the Stitcher's Graft in the deck without Always Watching . Didn't think that route with but can see the explosive power, but does it slow the tempo with that sorcery speed equip when its out and should I add more. I should have pre-ordered the smuggler for the price to try it out.
October 2, 2016 10:13 p.m.
The two Always Watching are still there. Even without it on the board, making my Mausoleum Wanderer a 4/4 meant that it couldn't be ignored and that I would negate any board wipe (or other instant or sorcery spell I didn't like). It also meant death for any planeswalker that hit the floor.
October 2, 2016 11:16 p.m.
It hasn't come up yet, and I doubt it will: it's too slow against us, doesn't block spirits, and we simply don't go wide enough for it to matter. Nevertheless, there are 2 tips:
Don't overextend. With Rattlechains on the board, Selfless Spirit is just has good in hand than on the board. If it lands and takes 1-2 spirits, you really don't have lost too much tempo, especially because you choose.
Diversify your threats. Put in Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and some artifacts. That's a reason I went with Stitcher's Graft: any Spirit I have left on the board will be a threat.
October 3, 2016 8:36 a.m. Edited.
why bygone bishop ? he is slow and loud with 3-manas cost. I was testing Ongoing Investigation which is doing much better with his clue per turn. (turn 3 you put bygone or turn 3 you have already 2 clues ?)Also Glimmer of Genius is best blue draw of standard, I think. I hesitate between both because both works very well and it depends a lot of your game style, as you prefer instant a glimmer at 4 or doing several things in a turn with a clue at 2.
Gideon main deck no ? It is so strong ! I won a fnm, 3-0 and gideon was second MVP, after spell queller.
I am doubt about ratio 4 nebelgast/2 reflector mage or 3/3. There are much game where you throw your opponent into space with a mage that bounce a creature he has second copy in hand. Win game instantly. But fly is more relevant. Also reflector is not pretty good against etb effect I think at "well" constructed energy deck and has noo fly. I think that if we play with 3+ reflector mage we have to play with elder deep fiend also, perfect target to him.
Elder deep fiend I like this creature. His trigger on upkeep opponent phase is so complicated, but when cast effect resolved, it's instant win as your opponent does nothing in a turn. The drawback is if your opponent has instant to answer in his end upkeep phase to kill the fiend or use a counterspell. I really do not know if we should play all the time this creature, as avacyn. Gamebreaker, but only "perfect" target creature in our deck is reflector mage.
I am doubt about also always watching. In fact, spirit deck can be agressive, midrange or control and we have to choose depend of meta that is not etablished actually (I will see that next week in PTQ). Here you choose to play main deck an aggro list. Always watching is only for that purpose but I wonder me if it is something to do. Maybe we can just play Revolutionary Rebuff , Select for Inspection (as it bounce also vehicle AND has scry 1). So playing a aggro-tempo deck without always watching. Then conclue for game 2 if we are against control to entry always watching, negate etc or to entry fumigation, stasis snare or else against aggro-mid.
For this point, I would have some suggestions or usefull card in this optic (control or midrange spirit deck)
toppegeist is it for fun ? I see no way for him to be valuable. If you want to laugh, go splash green for Permeating Mass :D Also stitcher's graft lol that greed. Works only with your 2 AW in the deck or if you really want a all-in version but please add some scry or draw effect :DAnd copter ??? whaoh ! .... hum.. why ??
declaration in stone in side no ? works only against token strat. You have already enough solution, or if you want stasis snare at instant speed. I understand that is for lower curve but I think it's not worth or you should go on other way (that is why I talked about select for inspection).
You don't put Dispel on sideboard ? spirit's weakness is instant spells. And Kozilek's Return or new similar red spell in kaladesh. Also works well against Izzet burn.
October 3, 2016 1:42 p.m.
Wow! Thanks for that long post.
Bygone Bishop is something I put in for long, grindy match, but I never liked him. It makes sense to cut him loose.
I don't use draw spells because this isn't a control deck. If you go control with spirits, have fun (though I'd start with Anticipate).
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is not needed against creature-based aggro decks, which is what I face ove 70-80% of the time in my local meta. He is there against control, which is when I board him in. He could be used maindeck, but I generally don't need him in most match-ups.
Elder Deep-Fiend won me a few matches back in EDM standard, but he was also stuck in my hand half the time. Feel free to use it instead of, or in addition to, Archangel Avacyn Flip. Most of the time, however, I never wanted to sacrifice a flying creature for it.
Always Watching has led me to many game 1 "free win", which is why it's there. There is an argument for Gideon instead of it in the main deck, but it does lower my curve.
Select for Inspection I don't like, since I am more often than not the aggressor. Revolutionary Rebuff seems ok, but I am not interested in running it over Negate.
Topplegeist is for a lower curve, and the only other useful spirit at 1 mana. With Always Watching , Stitcher's Graft and Smuggler's Copter, he works well (no more than a 2 of). Plus, I got foils.
Smuggler's Copter is fantastic! Attack, draw/discard means a fast clock and great card filtering. People slept on Baby Jace: this is the aggro version. Also, 32 Copters out of 32 possible slots in the first SCG tournament's top 8; I hope you have yours.
Stitcher's Graft, like the Copter, makes our one drop relevant. Mausoleum Wanderer equipped with the graft means the opponent has to ask permission for any instant or sorcery spell. Those artifacts won me the first KLD FNM without a game lost.
Stasis Snare is great in a control oriented Spirits deck. This isn't it. I am also very afraid of Fragmentize and other artifact/enchantment hate, which should run rampant with Kaladesh.
Dispel I cut because CoCo and the Commands are out. Board wipes are a stronger concern, which is the reason for 4 Negates (Invasive Surgery could be useful as well).
October 3, 2016 2:39 p.m.
RyuujiTakasu says... #8
Btw smuggler's copter just rose from $9 each 2 days ago to $15 today. Their very good ._. and declaration is good in aggro as it can possibly clear multiple threats, and your opponent would hardly have the mana open to crack clues. If they do, they risk not having enough mana open for responses to surprise flashed in spirits or mausoleum sac eff.
As for stitchers, don't like it but everyone has their own ideas for the deck. Btw boardwipe has felt meh and even weaker with the cycling of languish due to having Selfless Spirit and Mausoleum Wanderer to counter and Avacyn AND spell queller (that even worked against languish).
Btw question, how has your land ratio been? when i was running at 24-23 lands i flooded, but at 22-21 sometimes i dont draw any opening hand or draw them at bad moments :/
October 3, 2016 10:04 p.m.
At 24 I flooded sometimes, screwed sometimes. At 23, I haven't flooded yet, nor been screwed, but I have had some moments when the 3rd land came at just the right moment. With Smuggler's Copter, I feel erring on the higher land count is probably better, since you can discard the additional ones.
October 3, 2016 11 p.m.
Thank you for that answer. Your argues are sensed. I understand now how that aggro list is very strong and I want also to try this list :D
Stasis snare is also to manage vehicles. I understand your argue of enchant-hate but you weren't face a boros vehicle for example. They can win race. But other great solution is Select for Inspection. So just for 1 blue you bounce his vehicle he has already crewed by other creature and you throw him into space because you ruin his curve and tempo. And scry effect is relevant, it is a turn-one so I think this card can be usefull. What is your opinion ? Maybe instead of declaration if you want absolutely to keep your topplegeist
October 4, 2016 7:03 a.m.
Against Vehicles, I intend to race, with Topplegeist and Nebelgast Herald to tap their vehicles. The only deck that ever outraced mine was another spirits deck.
I do get the danger of Vehicles and the need for instant removal. I will include a couple of Stasis Snare or Skywhaler's Shot in the sideboard for such a deck, in addition to Blessed Alliance.
October 4, 2016 4:17 p.m.
mirror match-up in very interesting to play. "you-land at you-land you-at you..."
October 4, 2016 8:43 p.m.
Quite true. Had that happen a lot in EMN standard. Always Watching and Archangel Avacyn Flip were what won those matchups... or the initial die roll.
October 4, 2016 8:50 p.m. Edited.
After some testing, I feel 24 lands is just more consistant. I'm adding an Island and an Archangel Avacyn Flip against the two Topplegeist (cute, but mostly harmless).
October 4, 2016 11:18 p.m.
Brandon_Me1 says... #15
Any thoughts on the new 1 drop counter target colorless spell in the sideboard? Ceremonious Rejection I believe it's called.
I tested it myself and it actually came in quite well. Dealing with Vehicles, artifacts and Eldrazi in the meta.
October 5, 2016 2:07 a.m.
Would you consider running 1 gideon mainboard and moving 1 angel to the side?
October 5, 2016 12:24 p.m.
Ceremonious Rejection certainly can have a spot in the sideboard. It should be great against vehicles and good against Emerge decks.
Yes, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is certainly maindeckable. In fact, I know of at least one deck in EDM standard that ran 4! You can replace Always Watching instead of Avacyn if you want too.
Dovin Baan, however, is just no. He is terrible in this deck: he wants to be in a pure control list only. If you want planeswalkers, the best is Gideon, second best is Tamiyo, Field Researcher, third is Jace, Unraveler of Secrets.
October 5, 2016 4:52 p.m.
Awesome spirit deck! Stitcher's Graft is interesting, I'll be sure to try it out in my deck! I made a spirit deck inspired by yours, but slightly more attuned to my meta. Mind checking it out?
October 5, 2016 5:30 p.m.
Spinifex how well do you think panharmonic would do in this deck ? There's a lot of ETB triggers that would be insane and you'll be forcing them to either counter it or feel the pain and for game 2 you could always take then out and mess up their sideboard game. Congrats on your 4-0 and foil queller !!!
October 15, 2016 12:52 p.m.
I don't see Panharmonicon making the cut: you spend your turn 4 playing a card that does nothing on its own. Wouldn't you rather run a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar instead? It's more of a combo piece and, while I see it doing well in Commander, I see it only in Commander.
On a side note, my deck made the top 8 of the Grand Prix! ... Ok, not my deck exactly, but one very similar to it.
October 16, 2016 7:12 a.m.
Yeah first thing I saw of pro tour is also your deck list :D
Presence of Thraben Inspector is justified only because of 4 copies of Smuggler's Copter imo. Also the four copies of Gideon. I think that if we keep the inspector we should cut Essence Flux also and add 2 copies of copter, hmm. You added a loot-card, now you have 0 draw cards. I think it is a problem, don't you find that on your competition ?
But as this copter is expensive as hell now, a list like yours is more competitive that it was already competitive :P I wonder me, you played with copter. Now you change your list, without them. Why ?
I am always happy to run some Elder Deep-Fiend. Emerge a reflector mage at turn 4 is most time GG. Also it is later a solid answer to your opponent, not necessary at his upkeep phase and may be a kill with our spirits attacking. I re-ask you this question, but don't you think you can rise powerlevel of this deck by the fiend ?
I would talk about your mana curve also and Stasis Snare card. I played in PTQ a azorius flash list with ton of counterspell and flash flying creatures that works well. After seeing Pro tour, blue and white colors have tons of removal/counter spells that is so hard to choose. The stasis snare is really strong but just to go lower curve, and also because there are so much enchant-hated cards, maybe you can replace this card ?
Your deck is pure aggro-tempo. 4 copies of Reflector mage and Nebelgast are already bouncing annoying threat. Essence flux does amazing job in this deck, but not that much that we want more than 2 copies. Also AW wins race, wins vs thopters and is typically a card to side on game 2 because of enchant-haters, especially with running a solo Stitcher's graft.
Why not include Unsubstantiate ? This card creates some tempo by bouncing a spell and does combo with most creatures so it can be considered as offensive card. Otherwise, I appreciated synergy of Fumigate with Selfless Spirit because against a aggro match-up this synergy allow you to always win race. Maybe a side strat.
October 17, 2016 2:37 p.m.
On my 24 lands I was running 4x Aether Hub. This card allow you to stabilise your mana cuve at early game. Is it an interesting suggestion for you ?
October 17, 2016 2:45 p.m.
Yes, I should bring back the Looter Scooter. I have only two copies however. I think I should go up to 3. I cut the Smuggler's Copter because I wanted them for another deck... that simply didn't happen. They're back in the pool now.
Elder Deep-Fiend is nice, no question, but was so often a dead card in my hand, so I decided to cut it and I never looked back for several reasons. A) Except Reflector Mage, there's simply not much you want to sacrifice to it. B) With Archangel Avacyn Flip and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, you have your top end and don't really need more. C) Finally, there's the lack of evasion.
Yes, I was really torn between Stasis Snare and Skywhaler's Shot. I think the second is probably better with Fragmentize and Appetite for the Unnatural in the format.
Unsubstantiate was only ok in my testing. It's good against aggro, since they lose their whole turn generally, but I didn't need help there, thanks to Nebelgast Herald and Reflector Mage. Against Control, however, it wasn't that great: you won't have enough spirits in play (because of their removal spells and board wipes) for it to matter when they cast their spell next turn. My deck is simply not fast enough to use that Time Walk. I would run Essence Flux or Negate instead.
I cut Planar Outburst (didn't open any Fumigate), because there aren't enough "go wide" strategies for it to matter and I can generally out race those. Plus, Vehicles are resilient to board wipes.
I thought about Aether Hub, but it is merely fair without other Energy cards and it makes Port Town less likely to come in untapped.
October 17, 2016 8:19 p.m.
Updated the deck, following the previous discssion.
- In: 2x Smuggler's Copter (3rd in exchange for a Nebelgast Herald when I open/buy one), 3rd Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, 3x Skywhaler's Shot.
- Out: 2x Always Watching (moving one to sideboard against Liliana, the Last Hope), 3x Stasis Snare, Stitcher's Graft (cute, but dangerous with artifact hate since it would be a 2 for one, and bad without Archangel Avacyn Flip).
On a unrelated note, I bought a playset of Torrential Gearhulk for 7$ CAD each during pre-order season. Will be selling them for 25-30$ each (in store credit). Profit! :)
Spinifex says... #1
It worked sometimes, it didn't work other times. It was fun when I sided it in, the following week I maindecked it and it just sat in my hand all FNM. There's simply not a lot you want to sac for it (unless one of your creatures is the target of a removal spell). I prefer to run Archangel Avacyn Flip.
September 29, 2016 11:57 p.m.