Femme_Fatale says... #2
Unfortunately, Counterspell is not legal in modern. Only 8th edition and up.
Artful Dodge is nice if you want to save the potential unblockable for later, however you have to spend one mana on it that you could use for combo or for counter. I thought Distortion Strike would be better since it too lasts for a second turn, but also gives my creature a +1/0 bonus, and its second use is free. I also considered the fact that since this is supposed to be a deck that can win on turn three (I didn't have the time to put the proper description in), I don't really need to wait for the second activation on Artful Dodge when I can have it activated right away with Distortion Strike .
I thought about the dual combo between Master of the Pearl Trident and Spreading Seas , however I thought that the combo was difficult to stay out over a simple one mana drop unblockable card. I am already running an infinite exile mill combo and wanted to leave the main idea on that. Not to mention this is supposed to be viable in modern tournaments, which means I have to focus on only one combo, keeping that combo alive, and I have to win or be winning by turn 4. If any of those requirements are not met, then the deck is not viable in modern.
July 12, 2013 3:37 a.m.
How does Gift's Ungiven really help you if you cannot recurr your combo?
However, I do like the idea. I may be a competative player at heart, but I do like combos like this than come out of nowhere.
July 13, 2013 3:20 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
I agree with you LeaPlath, Gifts Ungiven is a difficult card to play, because if you are trying to get your combo out it basically destroys your chances to get the cards out as
A) It would allow the opponent to discard your combo.andB) It would alert your opponent to your combo and allow them to prepare accordingly.
The best way to play it is actually with low mana cost cards that have nothing to do with your combo, but still allow for a nice win. In this, for example, you use Gifts Ungiven to find your counter target spell cards, since you automatically get at least one.
If playing in other decks, you can search for three cards that allow for a specific card in your combo. For example if this deck was W/U, I could search for Muddle the Mixture , Idyllic Tutor and Freed from the Real . A guarantee card for my combo, but those are rare conditions and I don't really like building the deck around it like that.
The best way for this is to search for Trinket Mage , Muddle the Mixture , Spell Pierce and Mana Leak . If they know of your combo they'll automatically want to get rid of Trinket Mage and/or Muddle the Mixture giving you a guarantee one counter spell card and another one or a card to help your combo.
Also: It is a nice card to let them loose their own counter spells as it makes them think you don't have your combo already set up in your hand.
July 13, 2013 3:34 p.m.
I know how good it is, but without a way to recurr your combo, I don't think it is so good.
July 13, 2013 3:48 p.m.
smash10101 says... #6
i think Artful Dodge is better than Distortion Strike because you can toss it with Gifts Ungiven and still use it. Also, if you can afford it, Remand is much better than Delay , especially when you're playing combo. Again, if you can afford it, fetches would help, though they are $50 a pop right now.
As for the sideboard, I think Mindbreak Trap would be good against storm.
September 17, 2013 11:52 p.m.
Trollhoffer says... #7
I like the ideas in play, although I suspect you might be a bit vulnerable to removal. Counterspells are good and all, but as you point out, you have to be well established by turn 3 or 4 to have a significant chance of winning the game. That means using your mana in those opening turns to establish your board, which in turn means that you'll be unlikely to be countering anything until afterwards.
I suggest things like Unsummon , AEtherize , Rapid Hybridization and so on. Anything that'll allow you to slow down an assault, bounce, or equalise the board. Unsummon can also be used protectively if need be, especially in the format that has Lightning Bolt and other stupidly efficient power removal.
All in all, +1. Good deck, good idea. I just think it'll be at its weakest when your opponent decides to ignore what you're doing in the critical opening turns and smash face instead, or if they use early, cheap removal to disrupt your combo. No doubt this deck gives midrange decks and dedicated control decks a lot of trouble, though.
September 18, 2013 1:05 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #8
You throw me a good point with Artful Dodge that I didn't see. And thanks for the side-suggestion, though I have never liked Remand actually is one of my most hated cards Not because I don't like facing it, but because I've never seen it's "Time Walk " effects work as they should playing with or against.
Thanks for the suggestions and the +1, and yeah, removal is my biggest threat, which is why I put in Spellskite as my side, though I suspect I'll have to find more alternatives. This'll take a lot of play testing and getting used to mono-blue.
September 18, 2013 2:24 a.m.
smash10101 says... #9
Remand is basically the biggest FU in modern. It's like saying instead of you having a second (or third) turn, I'm going to draw a card. Most modern combo decks use fetches and cantrips to find their combos, and Remand is an amazing cantrip. While that isn't the strategy you're using, drawing the extra cards to help dig to your combo or a tutor is still very good in your deck. That's also why I recommended fetches. They make a big difference over time in thinning your deck.
September 18, 2013 5:16 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #11
I know why people use Remand all the time, however it is still one of my most hated cards. And I won't bother with the fetches, as the impact it has on a deck with this many lands is negligible. Though, ... Isochron Scepter + Remand I don't mind doing ...
I have a bunch of other cards that may be useful that I would like you critique on and any of them could be sideboard or mainboard. Devastation Tide , Kira, Great Glass-Spinner , Snapcaster Mage , Pithing Needle and Isochron Scepter .
September 18, 2013 2:57 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #12
There was a thread here yesterday about how the idea of using fetches in a mono-colored deck to thin it is actually a fallacy. It makes so little difference for your consistency over many games, and in an aggro and combo dominated format you sometimes can't afford the extra one or two life you pay over the course of the game.
While life is as much of a resource as anything else, it's the idea that if you waste your resources you're still going to lose.
Now, for this deck...it's funny these are alot of the cards I was going to suggest for the Mountain of Bant. Very nice combo.
September 18, 2013 3:21 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #13
Yeah, aeonstoremyliver did that one right?
The way Mountain of Bant was going seemed to me to be a better choice with R/U/G scapeshift, Valakut combo/control. Which I found was a little boring so I decided to delete it.
Think you can help a girl out here with which cards I should use? I have the ideas and the choices, I just don't know which ones to take out, put in and which quantities. I'm thinking of removing the Wake Thrasher part of it for more control and equalizers. I just don't want to have to do the extensive play testing against other decks to figure out what to use and what not to use, so I'm hinging on others' knowledge of mono-blue.
September 18, 2013 4:29 p.m.
Trollhoffer says... #14
Of the cards you mentioned, I think Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Snapcaster Mage are the best. Using Snapcaster to flashback a cheap counterspell isn't particularly creative, but it just might save your bacon, and that card has about as many applications as there are spells in your graveyard. Kira isn't a sure defense, but that card ensures your opponents will have to pay exorbitantly to deal with your stuff barring boardwipes. Getting hosed by something isn't really that bad if your opponent had to pay a stupidly high cost to hose you. In fact, it might even put you ahead. Skilled players will recognise this and simply cease targeting your stuff until Kira is out of the way. So at its worst application, playing Kira will slow down an opponent's play, force a boardwipe or otherwise require a drastic measure to interrupt. At best, Kira could stabilise the game for you. A good choice.
The other cards you mentioned seem more like sideboard cards to me. Isochron Scepter is a lot of fun and formidable, but it might be a tad slow. That said, I've never used that particular card; the closest I've come is Elite Arcanist , who does a similar thing at a slower speed, so I might be biased against the general "imprint" thing as a result of only ever playing a 4cmc version (not that the Arcanist doesn't have applications).
Think hard on Devastation Tide . On one hand, blue doesn't get true boardwipes like black, white and red do, so it might be a very powerful play as a close equivalent; on the other hand, in some situations, you'll only be delaying the inevitable or even setting yourself back.
September 18, 2013 5:25 p.m.
merrowMania says... #15
consider Tolaria West for some islands to tutor for Paradise Mantle
September 18, 2013 5:28 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #16
Tolaria West changes things, I would no longer need Trinket Mage , removes the idea of adding Fabricate , and allows me to up Muddle the Mixture to 4 as it would tutor Grimoire Thief , Isochron Scepter and Snapcaster Mage .
Thanks merrowMania~
September 18, 2013 5:45 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #17
Tolaria West is a great suggestion. It's a no-lose way to tutor a free card, can't really go wrong.
I have to say I'm not super familiar with mono-blue but I do play a lot of combo. That being said, the biggest thing is protecting your combo pieces. I'd probably look at Snapcaster Mage if you have them. Snapcasters make gifts piles WAY harder to split, and you already have a good number of answers.
Ive found that you dont need to run too many copies of your combo cards if you have lots of ways to find them. This allows you to devote more slots to control.
September 18, 2013 5:52 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #18
Geez. Make a whole bunch of changes to totally invalidate my two-cents...lol.
September 18, 2013 5:54 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #19
@ MindAblaze!, Trollhoffer, smash10101.
Now just made the alterations considering all your suggestions, thanks for the help everyone~
Earlier in this deck's construction, LeaPlath mentioned that Gifts Ungiven wasn't all that good and now after making a stronger direction to control I believe that she is right. So I removed that, and also removed Wake Thrasher and Artful Dodge for favor of more control and other forms of tutoring.
I upped Muddle the Mixture and Drift of Phantasms to 4, and replaced Spell Pierce for Remand .
Also added two of the following: Snapcaster Mage , Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Isochron Scepter .
If anyone has other points to make and concerns about my choices of cards and quantity, let me know.
September 18, 2013 5:57 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #20
Oh, you were a bit too late there MindAblaze!~
And considering the Snapcaster + Gifts Ungiven thing, I can either go 4 of each of my combo pieces, or make them 3 ofs and put back in Gifts Ungiven , but I really want to hear everyone's opinion on the gifts removal.
September 18, 2013 6:02 p.m.
Kira has a bit of a no-bo with your enchantments and I wouldn't suggest her.
Remand is amazing, simply cause it cantrips and buys a turn.
Cryptic Command is also pretty amazing at protecting said combo.
I would run either Sleight of Hand or Serum Visions in place of Rapid Hybrid as a way of cantripping through the deck.
As for gifts. Gifts should be used to make piles like Card you need, card to protect card you need, recurring, land/useful card. For example, Gifts Ungiven in Gifts the deck (to beat land based decks) can go Life from the Loam, Forest, Ghost Quarter, Eternal Witness. The best way to split that would be Eternal Witness/Forest to hand because then it slows them down by a turn most likely but they can still get those 4 cards.
Another thing to consider. A white splash for removal, value and protection.
September 18, 2013 6:12 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Thanks for letting me know about Kira LeaPlath, out she goes!
And what about Gitaxian Probe as the cantrip considering I can now use it to prep my next play?
September 18, 2013 8:49 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #24
Yep it was me. All my fetchland fault haha!
I like this Johnny brewhaha!
merrowMania says... #1
+1
Artful Dodge over Ghostform and Distortion Strike since you can control which two creatures are unblockable and when as well as a guarantee of a hit when you want it
Trinket Mage is all you need. Fabricate isn't necessary
Counterspell over Mana Leak
drop Aura of Dominion and Thousand-Year Elixir
Spreading Seas over Convincing Mirage
Master of the Pearl Trident and/or Merrow Reejerey over Merfolk Sovereign
July 10, 2013 6:11 p.m.