Rhadamanthus says... #2
I use Wrench Mind because for 2 mana it gets either 2 cards or 1 Jitte/Stack/etc., but I think you're right to suggest another card that also lets me see the opponent's hand in addition to getting rid of creature cards. I'll sub it in and see how it feels.
February 12, 2011 11:46 a.m.
This is pretty sweet. Usually only green can handle the big guys, not red. Ostracize is definitely better than thoughtseize for this deck though.
April 14, 2011 1:16 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
I wouldn't take out Thoughtseize for Ostracize because the latter can't be used to pick out removal, countermagic, or combo pieces. This is a deck that I actually put together and take to sanctioned Legacy events when I have the opportunity, so I have to be more mindful of the utility of the cards I choose.
However, I love this deck so much that I should probably make a casual version of it to have around all the time. If I were to do that, then I probably would use Ostracize in that version, and maybe even switch up some of the creatures (card:Gaea's Revenge, woo hoo!).
April 14, 2011 3:11 p.m.
planar_snap says... #5
Odd question and I probably have ZERO idea what i'm talking about here. Since I haven't actually played competitive legacy, have you considered Kederekt Leviathan as a Gambit target, seems it could clear a board fairly well. That said you have Progeniti for that.
June 10, 2011 7:54 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
If I were to finally make the casual version of this, Kederekt Leviathan would be a wonderful idea (especially if I were to add effects like Anarchist , Nucklavee , etc.). However, for competitive purposes, I really don't know about it. I chose the creatures in here now because they can protect themselves and can attack for the win in 3 turns or less. When I think about it some more, it would be nice to have some way to reset a swarm created by Bitterblossom , AEther Vial , or just some good old fashioned Zoo activity. Sundering Titan shouldn't be in the board anyway. His ability is good, but probably not that helpful.
June 10, 2011 8:59 a.m.
planar_snap says... #7
I used to use it in my Manland deck as a way of resetting the board easily. As it often had the mana to cast the thing and hand size to discard it for the slightly easier unearth. Found it too be surprisingly effective against just about everything.
Even in standard at the time. It would more often than not create some interesting blowouts vs Jund and Bushwacker Boros or the various Naya decks of the time.
June 11, 2011 1:40 p.m.
I'm not a legacy expert but I think that
+4 inquistion of kozilek
+4 Duress
-2 Liliana
-2 blightning
-4 wretch mind
Then fix mana base however you see fit/ are willing to spend on it
December 13, 2012 9:55 p.m.
CrimsonKing says... #9
I would cut the 2 Liliana Vess for 2 Liliana of the Veil . She will help you discard your creatures while hurting your opponent. The difference between a 3cmc and a 4cmc planeswalker will make all the difference. I also suggest adding Griselbrand because his "pay 7 life to draw seven cards" ability is nuts and you will probably draw everything you need to win. I'd cut the 3 Inkwell Leviathan for 3 Griselbrand . I don't have much legacy knowledge but I hope that helps, At least playtest it.
December 13, 2012 10:37 p.m.
CrimsonKing says... #10
My reason behind suggesting Griselbrand over Inkwell Leviathan is because you want your creatures to have an immediate impact on the game when they are cast. Inkwell Leviathan just sits there for a turn while ol grisel will give you cards at instant speed. You could probably go with this:
+1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn +3 Griselbrand +3 Liliana of the Veil -3 Inkwell Leviathan -2 Progenitus -2 Liliana Vess
December 13, 2012 10:49 p.m.
Continuing on previous suggestions:
Griselbrand , Inquisition of Kozilek , and Liliana of the Veil seem good. I'd run good old Lightning Bolt over Blightning /Duress , though.
You also want Chrome Mox instead of Lotus Petal .
December 13, 2012 11:32 p.m.
Also, what happens when you play certain decks like Elves? Your Stronghold Gambit is useless.
December 13, 2012 11:33 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #13
Liliana of the Veil is a very good suggestion, but not because discarding my own creatures is something I want to do (it totally isn't). She's a really strong discard & removal effect, so it's right for her to go in.
However, the original reason for Liliana Vess was her -2 in addition to her +1 . Without her I'll just be counting completely on luck to get the pieces, and I don't know how I feel about that. I need either some replacement tutoring or some card draw. What would you guys suggest in that respect?
Duress can't hit creature cards so I'm afraid I'll have to pass on that suggestion.
As of right now, all the creatures are both highly resistant to removal and can start ending the game fairly quickly. Though Griselbrand doesn't have any built-in defenses, the card draw will let me try again if something bad happens to him, so I agree he's at least worth trying out in place of Inkwell Leviathan . Progenitus will stay because he fits the aforementioned requirements and will at least offer me Game 1 protection against mill combos (if Leyline of the Void is out in Game 2 and the mill is coming from Grindstone , I'll eventually have to choose to apply the exile replacement effect to break the loop; otherwise it's a High Tide deck that will kill me with card:Blue Sun's Zenith in Game 2).
I'll take out Wrench Mind . It was only in here because it can be 2 cards for 2 mana, but it leaves too much up to my opponent. Having my opponent dump his entire hand is the most surefire way to clear the path for Stronghold Gambit , so I would prefer to stay with effects that can do multiple cards at once. I'm increasing Blightning and adding a couple Persecute s (partly because of the Elves issue brought up by mafteechr).
Regarding Lotus Petal , I usually only need the boost once since my curve stops at 3 (which is also why there are only 20 lands), but I'll see what Chrome Mox can do for me.
-2 Liliana Vess , -3 Inkwell Leviathan , -4 Wrench Mind , -4 Lotus Petal , -X Not Great Lands, +2 Liliana of the Veil , +3 Griselbrand , +2 Blightning , +2 Persecute , +4 Chrome Mox , +X Much Better Lands
So what's going on in Legacy nowadays that I need to be Sideboarding for?
December 14, 2012 10:47 a.m.
Legacy meta is currently:
UW Miracles, RUG Delver, BUG Control, Show and Tell, BW Stoneblade
And probably more. Check the results of the SCG Invitational and SCG Legacy Open this weekend to get a better idea.
Here is information from a month ago (but things change often).
December 14, 2012 2:12 p.m.
Despise is a one drop discard spell that you might want to consider as it hits creatures and planeswalkers with no life loss. You are more interested in the creature part I am sure. Might not be the best suggestion but it is an option that you may consider. I think it is about as situational as Inquisition of Kozilek but may be better in this type of deck. It is worse against decks like storm but can hit bigger creatures if needed or Jace, the Mind Sculptor and other planeswalkers. I will leave it up to you to decide which you like more.
December 14, 2012 4:12 p.m.
Would you rather have Persecute
in your sideboard and main Despise
or Mind Twist
instead. Seems like Persecute
could be real hit-or-miss, and it can't force a discard of any colorless creatures.
Also, why Cruel Tutor
in the maybe board instead of Demonic Tutor
?
December 14, 2012 10:36 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #17
This isn't a casual "legacy" deck, it's intended to be used in sanctioned, Legacy-format tournaments. No Mind Twist or Demonic Tutor for me, unfortunately.
December 15, 2012 9:48 a.m.
I didn't realize they were out of format. My mistake.
December 15, 2012 10:55 a.m.
Did anybody mention Despise yet? It seems to fit well.
December 18, 2012 10:56 p.m.
adamshomaker says... #20
if you want a good replacement toutor and your not planing on paying for it have you ever thought about Rune-Scarred Demon i may be a little biest on that but i love him and have made a few decks around that card and also this is probably a stupid suggestion but what the hell why not no boomerang? i can not see why its not in here to be honest
RobotsAndPuppets says... #1
Like the idea, I enjoy goofy tactics. Try adding in Ostracize to specifically target creatures, and take out Wrench Mind .
February 10, 2011 10:33 p.m.