Good, then there's our answer, so it's a more expensive Temporal Mastery but with Narset it's another turn, and that's all that matters with her.

Ah okay, thank goodness for your language skills. The MTG Salvation translation didn't have the exile clause on it, which is a big deal, though not as big for our specific lists.

yogojen beiwoden

Dianni wuyao wang shuang

Is it that the effective two mana for Hanweir Battlements for another 'give Narset haste' is too much or colour issues?

Both the additional 2 mana and color issue are reasons why that card isnt used

Dies really hard to anti-competitive soft control cards...

Gaddock Teeg

Stranglehold

I would definitely recommend more spot removal, like Chain of Vapor (bonus combo fuel) and Council's Judgment (hits literally anything)

illumfolly I think that Grasp of Fate is probably better than Council's Judgment in most spots since you get to pick the targets and get one for each player instead of letting them vote. Anything that involves voting, you should assume that they are going to try and screw you over as much as possible before they'd ever let you win. They could even all vote for the same permanent that isn't the one you chose and have your spell be worthless.

I really like Jace, the Mind Sculptor in this list, for obvious reasons. He's great removal, card advantage, or control if you needed it. His ult also flat out removes someone from the game if you had to do it.

One thing that I've found myself concerned with as I've moved closer to running your list, with a few exceptions, is that the only real way for you to end the game is through looping Beacon of Tomorrows. Narset takes 7 swings to kill each player through general damage, for a total of 21 swings. By the time you got through killing 2 players, you'd be out of both extra turns and extra combat spells, leaving your only option to kill the last player as looping Beacon of Tomorrows. Is that reliable? Do players ever stop you while you try to do that or do they just scoop? I really feel like there should be a way to end the game faster without having to loop extra turns and extra combats.

Thankfully, this new set has spoiled us some goodies that can help. Chandra, Torch of Defiance looks amazing. She gives card advantage, but what I really like about her is that she ramps +RR. She comes down for us Turn 2 with access to 4 mana and then makes sure we hit 6 on turn 3 with no additional rocks, rituals, or lands. She also lets us play another rock the turn she comes down or gives us free Ritual mana on Turn 6 so we can protect Narset with REB or play a haste enabler (or both). Her -3 is creature removal, which is useful for us and doesn't kill her if she uses it. And, the most important part, her ult is attainable and is amazing in our game plan. You could machine gun the whole table once you stuck Omniscience and drew your deck. No need to even swing with Narset again. She seems to help us in the early game, mid-game, and also ends the game for us and, in this list, I think a PW ultimate being a win condition is a very realistic expectation as she only needs 3 turns after you play her to ult (comes down on 4 and hits 5, then turns 1 and 2 she +1s and hits 7, turn 3 she ults for the emblem).

I also think that Metallurgic Summonings is a potentially great card for us with all the expensive sorceries we run. This card would not only give use some serious reach through combat, but would also serve as a way to get back a huge portion of our extra turns and combats from our graveyard to play again. Both of these cards seem to end the game cleaner, faster, and in an overall less risky way than looping Beacon, which currently appears to be the only way to actually finish off the table. It's cheaper than a similar win-con we would consider like Storm Herd because it is playable from our hand if we draw it, and it also has the added utility of getting all of our instants and sorceries back from the yard. I don't think it is win-more as much as it gives us reach. Thoughts?

This decklist is for competetive matches. I've got another list to play agaist my friends' decks, which are more casual decks. For your concern about Beacon of tomorrow: the standard way to play the combo is to first enter the infinite-> cavern of souls-> grand abolisher

Well, assuming that this is a competitive game -- no other player at the table will choose to vote for something aside from a soft lock. Again, take Gaddock Teeg as an example -- the other players at the table are also interested in winning the game, and will probably go along with your vote for him because they also want him removed. Removing a symmetrical lock piece would be a reasonable risk for other competitive players. Grasp of Fate, while a good card, can't deal with shroud / protection in quite the same way as does Judgment.

All the same, still get a Chain of Vapor in here. Can easily net large mana totals with your own mana rocks or remove a deadly threat for a small cost.

Well, assuming that this is a competitive game -- no other player at the table will choose to vote for something aside from a soft lock. Again, take Gaddock Teeg as an example -- the other players at the table are also interested in winning the game, and will probably go along with your vote for him because they also want him removed. Removing a symmetrical lock piece would be a reasonable risk for other competitive players. Grasp of Fate, while a good card, can't deal with shroud / protection in quite the same way as does Judgment.

All the same, still get a Chain of Vapor in here. Can easily net large mana totals with your own mana rocks or remove a deadly threat for a small cost.

May I make a suggestion? I run a Narset list as well although your build aeems more competitive may i recommend Keranos, God of Storms although it cannot be hit by narset ot fixes your draws and gets in some extra damage. It also provides setup for the other card I recommend: Proteus Staff. Not only does Proetus staff kill pesky creatures, it allows you to rearrange your deck with one creature in it.. ie. Keranos, God of Storms. you can arrange for the next four cards of your deck to be exactly what you want Narset to hit each turn, Get what you need to answer a deck, or get Enter the Infinite and Omniscience for the WIN!!!

And how do you plan to use Proteus Staff with barely any creature you could target except for Narset? It looks sweet on first glance, but it requires a lot of mana to actually do anything. Most of the time, you will just wish to have drawn a mana source, a haste enabler or an extra turn effect instead.

So, a couple things. First, you never want to draw your extra turn effects. Playing them from hand, ever, is suboptimal and impractical. However, I agree with you Emzed, that Proteus Staff would be a pretty shitty draw in the vast majority of situations.

Second, MarvelousBreadfish, I used to be on the Proteus Staff hype and let me tell you, the 4 creatures this deck runs are more important to actually winning the game than Proteus Staff ever could be. For the staff to work, you'd need to cut all of those creatures from the list and then you'd need to have Narset in play plus an additional 3 mana to activate her on the same turn plus a haste outlet to actually swing and win the game after you cycle her with staff. Honestly, it is the kind of card that looks like it would be sweet, but just ends up hurting your build's diversity and becomes a completely dead card without a particular setup and a lot of extra mana and conditions.

Lastly, Keranos, based on his effect, is just okay at best. If you draw a land (35% of the deck), it gives you an additional card, and if you draw an instant or sorcery (which is close to 40% of the deck) you get to bolt something. So he has a 75% chance to proc in some way, but he costs 5 mana. In competitive EDH (e.g. what this deck is designed for), a card costing 5 mana better be winning you the game and all Keranos does is provide some mild, inconsistent filtering or provides you a bolt, or, 25% of the time, does nothing. And, on top of it all, this is only for the first card you draw each turn.

Also, if you are running a creatureless Narset deck with Proteus Staff and you include Keranos, God of Storms he is a creature in every zone except when he is actually in play and has to have devotion. So, when you put Narset on the bottom of your deck with Proteus Staff's activated ability, you reveal cards until you reveal Keranos (your one card with the "creature" type other than Narset who is also guaranteed to be above Narset in your library) and Keranos gets put into play. It doesn't become "not a creature" until it is actually in play and checks for devotion. So, in that case, congratulations! You don't get to stack your deck and you probably just lost yourself the game because Narset is lost somewhere in your deck (40+ cards down on average). I'd recommend you stop playing him if you're going to be playing Proteus Staff combo. You did give me a chuckle though.

TL;DR:

-Our creatures are just too good to run Proteus Staff instead of them, especially with how costly it is to use Staff and how it is mostly a win-more card because of that (since Narset is already in play and probably already attacking).

-Keranos is awful in a competitive deck because he is so low-impact and he is even more awful if you're running him in a Proteus Staff combo Narset because he breaks your combo guaranteed!

While nothing you said is wrong from a strategy standpoint. How does the tuck rule work?

The tuck rule is a replacement effect. So, instead of it going to the bottom of your library, when your commander changes zones(i.e. from field to graveyard, library, or exile), you may choose to put it into the command zone instead. Proteus Staff doesn't require the creature to go to the bottom of your library in order to get the reveal effect because there is a period rather than a "then" which would indicate that the creature being put on the bottom needs to resolve in order for the rest of the sequence to occur. From what I can find available regarding Staff, that appears to be the rule.

So, I guess, technically, Narset doesn't have to go on the bottom, so you wouldn't lose her, but you would still flip until you hit Keranos, and then put the cards you flipped onto the bottom, which wouldn't matter how you order them since the whole rest of the deck under Keranos is randomized. I guess you'd then have to Staff Keranos after Keranos got flipped into play and have replaced Narset in the command zone and then you could order your library by flipping Keranos into himself and stacking the rest.

Long story short, running Keranos is still a huge waste of time in a Staff combo list even if you don't actually lose Narset because she can get put back in the command zone.

While you still get to keep Narset, you'd still have to waste a turn so you can activate Staff two times (because Keranos breaks the combo so you would have to do it once more after he flips into play), which would order your library and THEN you would still have to pay 8 mana to re-cast Narset. That means you'd need 11 mana on the turn of your second Staff activation and it is hard enough to get 6 or 7 mana in this list, so re-casting Narset probably has to wait another turn. And, if you don't have haste ready, she is sitting there for another turn. So, with Keranos, you end up spending a minimum of 3 and most likely 4 turns trying to "combo". You'd be better off dedicating your resources to playing Narset with haste and swinging with her 3-4 times (at least 2) and almost certainly winning the game before you'd be able to use the Staff combo in that deck.

Since the intent is for this deck to be competitive, Keranos should never be in this list and should really never be in the list if you're running Staff. All that said, Staff is still bad because of all the creatures you lose by running it and the mana it costs, which is super clunky. Definitely a win-more card that forces you to remove huge pieces of what makes this deck good.

I've been building my own Narset deck (still working on decklist and description on tappedout), keeping it on a as short as possible budget as I can and I already agree with you at one crucial point:

While I can have a lot of fun playing my Narset deck, it's not fun at all for the people playing against it in a fun environment. Narset is too powerful to build a deck just to have fun.

She is by far going to be my most powerful general but I can probably only play her in somewhat competitive environments in my LGS or as a revenge for a long streak of losses among friends.

This being said, your list is great and this is definitely a deck I'd love to play! I'm keeping it in mind when considering potentially upgrading my list! +1 given! ;)

Why no Mana Vault?

Lol pretty much every narset deck is "competitive" like yours, it's such a broken commander that it's each to make a broken deck.

Livingham this is actually a deck designed to play competitive EDH. Most casual Narset decks do things like superfriends or voltron encahntress or spellslinger control, etc. Just because a deck has some extra turns doesn't make it competitive, though it may make it unfun in casual circles.

Thank for answering for me RivenVII. By the way, I do have mana vault lol

Oh I'm dumb :o

Your deck is no longer fully foiled since Mana Vault got a masterpiece.

Might want to do a comment cleanup lol, got a lot of them sitting around...

Hey There!

This deck looks insane. Jeskai is my favourite colour combo and it has been for a while. I have just built a Narset Commander deck, and I would love some help with it. You obviously know what you are doing with this deck, so your help would be greatly appreciated.

Who Needs Creatures Anyways?

Thanks and Cheers :)