Super Friends Commander/EDH

Commander / EDH* Omnath9

SCORE: 23 | 49 COMMENTS | 8457 VIEWS | IN 7 FOLDERS


Redace878 says... #1

Maybe since all planeswakers are legendary now, you could include Thalia's Lancers or Captian Sisay (even though she's $50 now).

August 29, 2017 11:30 a.m.

dbpunk says... #2

I think the only card that you solidly need is Teferi, Temporal Archmage. You already have the other part of the combo, so you could potentially use Planeswalkers abilities infinitely with that (especially since you're running Prismatic Geoscope).

August 29, 2017 11:33 a.m.

dbpunk says... #3

Also, Clever Impersonator and Mirror Gallery are worthwhile due to how the Planeswalkers uniqueness rule is officially out the window.

August 29, 2017 11:38 a.m.

Forceofnature1 says... #4

Scroll Rack would work well with this deck. You could mass switch things around to your benefit then pop off a Primal Surge.

August 29, 2017 12:40 p.m.

So, this looks pretty solid, though my knowledge of superfriends is dubious at best. However, you have a rather high converted mana cost, and...not a lot of ramp. At all. And your manabase is a little rough. Starting with the lands, I'd say you should strip out most of the dual lands that enter tapped, and swap them with more basics which can be fetched with ramp spells like Kodama's Reach, Farseek, Rampant Growth, and so on. More lands in the vein of Caves of Koilos, less like Orzhov Guildgate. I'd also include more signets and the talismans in your colors, along with Fellwar Stone. I think that would be enough. I've noticed you also don't have Djeru, With Eyes Open. He'd fit in perfectly. Lastly, while it is rather expensive, I'll put forth the obligatory suggestion of Doubling Season. Good luck!

August 29, 2017 1:06 p.m.

No Mercy and Mana Reflection would be good. looks like a solid deck, but i would recommend some spot removal. like Dismember and Hero's Downfall.

August 29, 2017 1:28 p.m.

Jamminmagician says... #7

Cards that I struggle to see the relevance of:Dictate of Karametra seems bad to me, you don't play many instants so after 1 game your opponents will begin to see it coming and it only gives you a small advantage at first, your opponents can likely take a lot more advantage of it than you.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant seems like a very weak planeswalker and could easily be removed in order to facilitate better support.Garruk, Primal Hunter also seems weaker, his only relevant effect on landing being to make you a 3/3 which will get steam rolled by any creature strategy.
Gideon, Champion of Justice is terrible isn't it?How often do you find Kiora, the Crashing Wave to be a waste of 4 mana to prevent 1 source's damage?Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath is fairly irrelevant, you drop him and gain a teeny bit of life or get a 5/5 token but reduce his loyalty to ping-range or wait for an irrelevant emblem.The remaining planeswalkers are all okay or at least obviously usable when they drop or if they attain critical mass. Speaking of which, there are obvious upgrades that are missing here.Doubling Season, you just have to play this card. You can't not play this card in EDH superfriends if you have green access. It sets up planeswalkers to instant-ult and doubles tokens you produce to block with.Rings of Brighthearth means every planeswalker ability gets doubled. Unfortunately this does not double the counters added.
You could go harder into token doublers with Primal Vigor,Parallel Lives, and Anointed Procession, which might give you enough blockers over time to start building the justice league.If you are going instead to preventing damage to planeswalkers you need cards like:Moat, Magus of the Moat, Humility, Sphere of Safety, Contagion Clasp, Contagion Engine, maybe Privileged PositionYou need more tutors. Planeswalker-specific or not. Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor for a start.It's usually good in blue to have one or two instant-speed responses like counterspells. The most relevant one I can think of is Fuel for the Cause although it's not a great one anyway. You seem like you have board control fairly well locked. This is probably your only answer to cards like Merciless Eviction or the new red spell from Ixalan I forget. Also, since you're always wiping the board and filling everyone else's graveyard why not run a Rise of the Dark Realms as an alternate win-con?

Obvious missing planeswalkers:If you choose to run very few creatures who are all extremely relevant, the duel deck Ajani, Valiant Protector actually acts as a pseudo-tutor for them, which could be very relevant with deepglow skate.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver can remove some serious threats, make players more wary about reorganizing the top of their library, and potentially net you blockers, dorks, etc. if it sticks. The ult is a win-con.
Elspeth Tirel can create token blockers, can setup to ult the following turn as a boardwipe, incidental life gain if you are going hard with tokens.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar similar to Elspeth he makes tokens but his ult is more relevant to building a token-defensive board state, can be used right away, and if he sticks around he can beat face for damage while gaining loyalty. Rotating out of standard so he will be cheaper now.Jace Beleren, less of a "I win card" but less likely to be shot down right away in a political meta. Everyone drawing a card doesn't draw attention, and you can selectively choose to replace him in your hand with the minus as well if you just want to "cycle" him. The ult is fairly irrelevant so you can basically treat this as a semi-permanent draw engine.
If you upgrade your land base and throw in an urborg/cabal coffers combination you should go for Liliana of the Dark Realms since she can tutor for dual types, turn your swamps into super-engines and act as a removal for even indestructibles if you get there.Nissa, Vastwood Seer can also be good, she gives you land drop, she's relevant if you draw her late and flip her, you can potentially get tricky and flip her using lands like Evolving Wilds after you block an opponent, and her flip side provides ramp/filtration, a token blocker, or potentially a board of 6/6 creatures. also she re-enters so works with doubling seasonTamiyo, the Moon Sage can protect itself somewhat, or remove a threat on board which can politically let you leverage your opponents. Against creature-wide strats can draw you a full hand worth and its ult is very hard to fight against.
Teferi, Temporal Archmage combos with Chainveil if you replay it same turn and you NEED THIS ULT.Tezzeret the Seeker tutors for sol ring, nuff said.
Venser, the Sojourner resets your other planeswalker loyalties, I mean seriously flicker is always good. The ult acts as almost a win con.

Moi expensivo:Your mana base should be fetches and duals, enough said.Jace, the Mind SculptorKarn LiberatedUgin, the Spirit DragonLiliana of the VeilThe AbyssCaptain Sisay since all planeswalkers are retro-actively legendary.

August 29, 2017 1:55 p.m.

zephramtripp says... #8

As other have mentioned, with the rules change to legendary planeswalkers, several cards may become useful.

Some other 'walker synergies:

I hope this advice was useful to you.

August 29, 2017 2:24 p.m.

PookandPie says... #9

So, I heard your call requesting assistance, and here I am, lol.

Atraxa decks are kind of fun. I'm going to assume that you don't have a tremendously high budget for MTG (or at least Commander), and that's okay, I'll try and keep my suggestions cheap, and if some of them aren't cheap, I'll see if I have any substitutes that are cheaper.

An important thing to improve consistency is to add tutors: Cards that you can expend to look for other cards. Call the Gatewatch is a card that can let you grab a specific Planeswalker right when you need them. It might be really handy to have access to what is essentially two copies of Freyalise when your opponent just cast a Sanguine Bond or Exquisite Blood, and is about to go off next turn. Similarly, cards like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are extremely good in your colors, but they're pretty pricey, I know. You can substitute Diabolic Tutor, instead, and maybe something like Enlightened Tutor to more regularly find Doubling Season. Actually, now I see you're not running doubling season, but E Tutor could still be good to find Rhystic Study, Overburden, or Pernicious Deed. Djeru, With Eyes Open and Thalia's Lancers can tutor up more Planeswalkers of yours when you need specific abilities at certain times (Lancers can now tutor Planeswalkers due to a rule Wizards of the Coast changed yesterday. Planeswalkers are legendary now).

Another important factor I try to have in all of my decks is ramp. Even my more durdly decks like Roon (Roon of the Fun Police) run tons of ramp because what's better than a 5 drop on the fifth turn? That's right, a 5 drop on the third turn. Running a ramp package of 8-12 cards will help accelerate you greatly so you can establish your board state much earlier in the game. Squeezing in those cards wouldn't be that difficult, either, as you could just remove some of your less-effective Planeswalkers and other spells to fit them in. My recommendation of Planeswalkers to cut would be:

Garruk Relentless. His abilities aren't super relevant (a lot of creatures in Commander get way bigger than his loyalty so you might not be able to flip him), and his ultimate on his transformed side is relevant for creature decks, of which this is not.

Jace, Architect of Thought. He's just not that great. -1 is pittance in Commander where things like Blightsteel Colossus can be dwarfed in size, and a miniature Fact or Fiction is still miniature. His ultimate isn't that great, either, and not worth taking 5 turns to get to when blue in Commander already has Bribery and Blatant Thievery.

Nissa, Steward of Elements. Her best ability is her 0, and you run so few creatures that her ability would only do something 1/3rd of the time its activated. Scry 2 is okay, but you don't have enough draw to truly take advantage of it.

I'm probably tiring both you and myself out explaining justifications for each cut, so I'm just going to lay out the rest of the ones I think aren't quite as effective as the others: Dovin Baan, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, Sorin, Solemn Visitor.

There's also some other spells that could be cut like:

Citadel Siege is really underwhelming. Tapping one creature seems really, really bad, and it's the only relevant ability this has unless you stick a token generator, which means you're already doing well.

Oath of Liliana is the worst of your Oaths by far.

Sandwurm Convergence is really expensive for a mostly defensive card.

Ramp additions that may help you:

Nature's Lore (this lets you grab your Temple Garden), Fellwar Stone as it's Exotic Orchard but a mana rock, various signets, like Azorius Signet, Dimir Signet, Selesnya Signet, and the like, Worn Powerstone can ramp you well but it doesn't mana fix.

Random suggestions: Primal Surge is really bad here because 15 cards in your deck are nonpermanents, which means you spend 10 mana and may only flip up one or two cards not even totaling ten mana when you cast it (feels bad). I would strongly recommend removing Primal Surge for this reason, because you may not get what you spend into it (by the time you get 10 mana, you may have 82 or so fewer cards left in your library, but up to 14 of them could be your instant/sorceries. You have an almost one in five chance of each card you reveal being an instant or sorcery, stopping this entirely, meaning you, on average, will get 4-6 cards off Surge before it ends with how your deck is currently built). Genesis Wave is a far more mathematically sound option- It scales up or down with your mana, and if you pay 10 into it, you might reveal a couple instants/sorceries, but you'll get the remaining cards underneath even if Hallowed Burial was second from the top of your library.

Your mana base can use some work. Here are my suggestions for that:

Forbidden Orchard. Not super expensive, and it does give your opponents tokens, but it fixes all four of your colors, which is valuable. If Orchard doesn't seem good, there's always City of Brass and Mana Confluence.

Do be sure to run a couple of each basic land. This'll give you access to things like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, which guarantee a 5 drop on turn 4 by themselves, but also you won't get completely blown out by Ruination and Blood Moon.

Magosi the Waterveil is basically never good. The only way I know of to 'combo' with this card is a four card combo, of which you're running none of the other pieces (Rings of Brighthearth, Deserted Temple, and Amulet of Vigor, and I believe 5 mana from elsewhere). Just drop that card, lol, as it's basically never going to be that useful here.

I know this was a text dump, but hopefully this helps. There's a lot more I actually wanted to go over, but it'd probably be even more exhausting to read even more lol.

August 29, 2017 2:50 p.m.

Planeswalker decks have one huuuuge problem. Mass flyers. Thankfully there are all kinds of fixes in your colors. So many that you might get confused.

Great advice above on the cuts. It's not about the planeswalkers, it's about getting them bout to play. What great ways can you think to do that?

  1. Mana ramp. Abso-freaking-lutely! Mana doublers... try to stick to permanents (tell ya why soon) so enchantment or artifact mana ramp. Cantrips are good, but they have the most value out of synergy in a spellslinger set up. You have tons of walkers, lean into that.

  2. Enchantments galore. Really good idea to slap down some "no" and "yes" enchantments. This really means tokens. Everything from Awakening Zone to Bitterblossom, anything that can help durdle you out some chump blockers is good.

Then you stack the enchantments with something fun like Spidersilk Armor or Aura Shards yes yes?

Anyway that's what I got, cut the slack, figure out what kind of game you wanna play, and recognize that you'll be using your walkers non-ultimate abilities a lot more than their ults so build around that.

August 29, 2017 3:51 p.m.

MegaMatt13 says... #11

Happy to be invited to help :)

Superfriends isn't my specialty but I can give you some overall deck advice that I hope you find helpful.

I agree with previous commenters about ramp. Ramp is hugely important in Commander (it looks like you typically play modern where mana curves are very low). You're in green...I would add Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, and Explosive Vegetation. This will help you power into Atraxa and your planeswalkers a lot faster.

You have 10 boardwipes...that's a lot. I understand you want to keep the field clear of creatures but I think 10 may be more than enough. Cutting back to 7-8 will give you enough redundancy and lower your mana curve. I would add a bit of spot removal like Anguished Unmaking, Beast Within, and Utter End which can all take care of any permanent.

you mentioned in your previous comment that you usually have a handful of planeswalkers without enough mana to cast them. Your mana curve is very high (even in Commander I suggest less than 4 average CMC). You only need about 20-24 planeswalkers to have enough redundancy for a superfriends deck. I would cut a few of your least favourite/worst performing ones. I would look at any card that costs 5+ mana and ask yourself how necessary it really is. I'm not advocating cutting all expensive cards. Commander decks can definitely handle some. Just try cutting back enough to bring that average CMC down.

I'm also not a fan of Dictate of Karametra unless I'm doing a "big mana" deck with lots of X spells or other mana sinks. It helps opponents out too much otherwise.

Hope this helped!

EDIT:

Just noticed you are hardly running any basic lands. In a 4 colour deck you do want more non-basics than basics but you want SOME basics in each colour. You run a lot of tapped lands which slow your deck down. I would cut some of these for basics.

August 29, 2017 3:57 p.m. Edited.

Pestilence is great mass removal that sticks around.

August 29, 2017 4:19 p.m.

Mike94 says... #13

Ad all the fetches that hit your colors, they really help with tempo and the mana-fixing is a essential part of super-friends.

Try to play 5 colors, you are missing out on some pretty sweet planeswalkers:

Also, play Venser, the Sojourner (look at that ult!!)

I would focus more on card-draw and counter-spells instead of utilizing your planeswalkers. Try to shove in some removal spells like Hero's Downfall and counters like Force of Will or just good old Counterspell. The oaths are in my opinion not game changing and you don't want to draw them later on in the game. Citadel Siege is not efficient enough if you want to slow down your opponents, play Blind Obedience instead. It's cheaper, has extort and shuts down any aggro or combo based deck.

Last of all. Where are your tutors?! If you are playing super-friends you really want to look for certain kind of answers during the game. Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Mystical Tutor are ideal for the job (but expensive). If you are looking for more budget types of tutors then Diabolic Revelation, Diabolic Tutor and Rune-Scarred Demon are good to to begin with.

I love super-friends +1

August 29, 2017 4:22 p.m.

Profet93 says... #14

I saw your post on my wall. Here are my suggestions...

Prismatic Omen

Doubling Season

Ward of Bones

Demonic Tutor

I would also remove your slow lands for faster one's that don't come into play tapped and that don't require you put a land back to your hand.

I usually don't play outside of 2 colors of EDH, so my suggestions are a bit limited.

August 29, 2017 4:40 p.m.

KALE434 says... #15

Got only a couple of suggestions for ya Collective Restraint for more creature lock out, or maybe even Dueling Grounds if you dont wanna be too oppressive. Also maybe Energy Flux/Kataki, War's Wage to help slow down Artifact Combos. Oh and maybe Frozen AEther if you feel like really slowing people down. Sorry if some of these are repeats tried to do a once over on the comments to make sure.

August 29, 2017 5:23 p.m.

PartyJ says... #16

Hi, seems you got some great tips already. When reading through all the comments I got pretty confident that most things have been said. Still I will advocate the use of more ramp. Cards like Chrome Mox, Fellwar Stone, Mox Diamond, Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress and Talisman of Unity should find a place here.

Did you also consider this removal pack: Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares, Anguished Unmaking, Vindicate and Toxic Deluge

Good luck!

August 29, 2017 5:51 p.m.

CardTyrant says... #17

Looks good. When I construct my Commander decks, I always follow the Professor's advice from YouTube and I run 38 lands (you have 36) and 8 mana accelerates/fixing cards. I would add two more lands. I strongly dislike the lands that come out tapped, so I would take them out for either basics or lands that tap for any color: City of Brass, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard, and Forbidden Orchard are some of my fave lands that tap for any color (unless I'm in tribal). I would also run the pain lands and shock lands.

For accelerates, I would run Sol Ring, Chromatic Lantern (which you have already), MAYBE Pyramid of the Pantheon (I really haven't tried this card out yet), Commander's Sphere, and a few sorceries/instants that let's you search for lands/basic lands.

August 29, 2017 9:28 p.m.

_Delta_ says... #18

Hey there as promised earlier, here are my suggestions. I will suggest what to take out and possible replacements for each.

(Take out these)Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Kiora, Master of the Depths,Mystic Barrier, Isperia, Supreme Judge, Dictate of Karametra, Jace, the Living Guildpact, Creeping Renaissance, Garruk Relentless, Praetor's Counsel, Spreading Plague, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, Sorin, Grim Nemesis, Primal Surge, Citadel Siege, Jace, Memory Adept.

Also in terms of lands remove: Elfhame Palace, Orzhov Guildgate, Selesnya Guildgate, Tranquil Expanse, Golgari Rot Farm, Selesnya Sanctuary, Azorius Chancery. I could suggest a lot more like Thornwood Falls among others but I feel your wanting to keep the land base fairly budget still correct?

Now let me suggest some replacements...

Cyclonic Rift, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Supreme Verdict, Anguished Unmaking, Sphere of Safety, Norn's Annex, No Mercy, Sol Ring, Astral Cornucopia, Fellwar Stone, Gilded Lotus, Spike Weaver, Exploration / Burgeoning, Venser, the Sojourner, Merciless Eviction, Skyshroud Claim, Mana Reflection, Rhystic Study, Sylvan Library, City of Brass, Reflecting Pool, Forbidden Orchard, Mana Confluence, Murmuring Bosk, Path to Exile, Swan Song, Disallow, Catastrophe, Mystical Tutor, and Demonic Tutor.

I better cut this to an end here, as I still got to look at your other decklists. But if you are wondering about any of my suggestions here / and or what to add if any from among my suggestions then just let me know!

August 29, 2017 9:41 p.m.

_Kane_ says... #19

I am sorry, but it seems you have received plenty of great suggestions. I don't think there is anything I could add that hasn't already been said. I did try, but found all of my suggestions after a quick CTRL+F search. Take care and good luck in your next game!

August 30, 2017 10:04 a.m.

Ilikeit:D since comments are tl;dr. I'll just suggest off the top of my head. Contagion Engine is great, so is Viral Drake. Doubling Season is a great initial boost for tour walkers. I'd toss in a handful of tutors to make the deck more of a toolbox :)

Stay frosty!

August 31, 2017 3:01 a.m.

Okay, well I am commenting here since you had asked for the help. Ballsy to ask so many people. I like it. Anyway, I enjoy your deck and see that there are a lot of cards that people have suggested that I really agree with. However, as you haven't changed the deck yet to show what you are actually taking as far as the suggestions go, it makes it kind of difficult to give good feedback without just repeating what others have said.

It is a major disappointment that your playgroup has banned Doubling Season, because that is the main thing this screams for. Contagion Engine is also a must. All of your oaths, I would get rid of. They are okay, I guess, but there are better things to have. The only oath that I consider worth having is Oath of Jace because the scry is so damn strong. You need more ways to protect yourself and your walkers from harm, so I suggest Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety, Venser, Shaper Savant and Leyline of Sanctity. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon would be a solid addition for you as well. You also need a bit more targeted removal to get rid of annoying creatures that keep coming back as well as bombs like Avacyn. Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are perfect examples of removal for this deck. A bit more draw could be useful so you get more walkers in a timely manner. Phyrexian Arena, Staff of Nin, and Erebos, God of the Dead come to mind as well as Tezzeret's Gambit which proliferates as well.

I know that part of this is just repeating what you have already seen, but I hope it helps.

September 1, 2017 1:32 p.m.

Decisive says... #22

Have you thought about something like Teferi's Protection?

Also, Moat + Sandwurm Convergence? <-- This honestly depends if you can handle the expensive Sandwurm or the big price tag of Moat. If you can't find a spot for Sandwurm, Moat will do. Atraxa makes a good attacker with moat and most EDH decks don't run an abundant amount of flyers, meaning your planeswalkers stay on the battlefield.

September 2, 2017 12:32 a.m.

Colorado11 says... #23

Had you thought of djeru, with eyes open. Preventing one damage can cause your opponent to re evaluate damage. Any thing with proliferate.

September 6, 2017 7:36 p.m.

x12721 says... #24

-Prismatic Omen (For mana fixing), -Doubling Season (This is a must for Superfriends), -Teferi's Protection (Can save you the game, might be more of a maybeboard card), -Captain Sisay (Because of new rule changes), -Tezzeret's Gambit (This can draw cards and proliferate)

I would highly suggest going five colors with Ramos, Dragon Engine as the commander. If you decide to go five, there are several new planewalkers you can add, the most impressive of which (In my opinion) is Samut, the Tested. She can insta-ult with Season and tutors for more friends. DEFINITELY worth considering.

September 14, 2017 9:35 a.m.

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