I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph, when you failed to notice I have both a playset of Breeding Pool AND Hinterland Harbor already in here. So yeah, I didn't even finish reading the post cause apparently you can't comprehend looking at the deck before posting suggestions and thoughts. That means you just rushed to slap down whatever you thought, as if I was incapable of being able to include something like shocks and duals in a dual colored deck.

By the way, a ton of these cards were suggested by people. This deck has been revised, as you can see by the vast number of updates done to the deck (and a couple I had deleted because the updates tab was getting too many). This deck has been revised so many times, considering it has been on here since I first joined the site a year ago. So no, I don't just "shoot down" every suggestion given to me. I just simply try to state that I don't want a card in the deck, or I don't want a card taken out. I don't HAVE to listen, and I don't HAVE to change my deck to anyone's liking. I take into consideration what I think will help the deck in both terms of how I want to play it, and how it can stay fun without being too stale.

Just because I didn't take your suggestions, doesn't mean you need to get upset and attack me for it. Breeding Pool , Hinterland Harbor , Overgrown Battlement , Fog Bank , all these were suggested to me, among other things that I had decided to take out for other things. I do take the suggestions into consideration, and sometimes in the end, I decide not to change the deck to their needs. Why you need to press the matter on and on baffles me.

Sorry for the confusion, when I said "You gotta have the dual lands man", I meant you should have MORE dual lands. Also, how do I playtest this deck and not see what cards are in this deck at the same time?

Did I stop reading when you said something that I thought was stupid? No. I read on and heard every point you have. One could be trying to tell someone that an atomic bomb is going to drop on a school, and then the other person could freak out before the person tells him how to stop the atomic bomb from dropping on it.

Out of the ~50 suggestions people gave you (And yes, I looked back at all the old comments), you always attempted to shoot them down, and the only ones you even considered are the ones you added which is Coiling Oracle , Hinterland Harbor , Harrow , and Fog Bank . Saying that you don't want a card in a deck is shooting an idea down. You don't have to listen, but you asked for suggestions. What did you do with the suggestions?

So how are turn 3 emrakuls not fun...?

I wasn't attacking you, I was debating you on a very intriguing topic. I'm continuing because no one has conceded or concluded the debate yet. We are both giving each other reasons on why we think our ideas are good. I don't think anyone has lost yet and I don't think anyone has conceded either.

Also, Mana Leak 's flavor text is relevant to the previous paragraph.

Guys, you have both made your points. Can we just walk away from this so we aren't writing walls of text that neither party is fully willing to read? For the sake of your blood pressures agree to disagree please.

Dude, 203995014, just because I ask for suggestions doesn't mean I'm gonna take them. Shooting down and declining to take the suggestion are different. The deck doesn't need more duals in it. Eight is enough. Maybe I did jump the gun on that one a bit, but either way I told you I didn't like your suggestions and you PERSISTENTLY kept trying to TELL me to change things around. You gave your suggestions, ones that a couple others have suggested. I said no and didn't want to take out what you said to take out, for cards I didn't see needed to be in the deck. Rather than just see what cards I would be willing to take out, you kept trying to tell me what YOU thought was bad for MY deck. That is not a debate. I told you that I didn't want to make those changes, you continued to persist. Learn that no means no dude.

@Ohthenoises: Do you stalk my decks or something? O.o This is the second time you've tried to calm things down and settle an argument, on this deck too lol. He's telling me to take out Plasm Capture cause the way I'm using it is wrong and not needed, saying it isn't used for mana. If that is true why add the mana function to it? It works wonders in this deck and each card he has told me to take out, was based on his friend's goblin deck rather than overall thought process on other archetypes. It is infuriating because he's telling me I'm using my own deck wrong, an experienced Magic player, who has been building for over a year. That really pisses me off when people tell me I am using cards the wrong way in my deck. I'm not an amateur.

I've been subbed to this deck forever ever since I played against it with my Affinity deck on Cockatrice. IIRC I recommended you add the Fog Bank s.

I am not going to take sides, just want people to calm down before someone who carries far more weight than I gets involved lol.

I just get sick of people telling me that what I do is wrong, and that what I think is good isn't. I was told Plasm Capture was bad, yet it has saved me, and stopped me from beating this deck when it went Omnifinite (my counselor was using it and held two Captures in hand). It is a great card, esp for this deck. I tried telling him I don't want to make the changes he is suggesting and he's acting like I'm shooting them down, when I tried to simply tell him that I don't like the suggestions he made. I'm trying to keep this deck as casual as it can be for something as strong potential as is.

And yeah that does make sense. You can see it has changed quite a bit hasn't it since then? :D

It has, Have you ever considered Cyclonic Rift instead of Devastation Tide ? You have the ramp to pull off an overload, it's in your colors, it can be cast for 2 for spot removal, it's a one sided board wipe for your opponents, and you don't have to rely on a topdeck.

I know casting your threats again can be useful in come cases but other times it's just better to pop their whole side and swing for game in one go.

Indeed, and I have occasionally thought about it, but at the time it was considered a money card that I didn't expect to get a hold of (still don't to be honest). I might drop the Blue Sun's Zenith s for them. That sounds good right?

I'd keep the suns. The tides are more easily replaced IMO. Either way.

Yeah, but I kind of like the Tide. Maybe go 1:1?

If you want to, Personally I hate 1 ofs lol.

I normally do too, the only exception here is the Legendary Creatures. It makes it more fitting for the deck to have lots of single Legendaries run rampant on the field early game lol. I really love tide cause it combos well with both Emrakul and Vorinclex.

"This deck doesn't need more dual lands"

Okay, you did say some pretty stupid things, but this is just beyond stupid.

There's NO SUCH THING AS HAVING TOO MUCH DUAL LANDS.

There is a reason why dual lands are so good. Take an Underground Sea for example. You can tap it to use Unsummon , and you can also tap it to use Duress . It multiplies what you can do and gives you an EXTREMELY good advantage, while also preventing color screw. 8 is NOWHERE NEAR enough. Rule number (insert number here) of MTG is if your deck is multicolored, you always fill it with dual lands and fetch lands used in association with shocklands or the original dual lands are highly recommended for decks with 3 or more colors. However, it's recommended to keep 1-3 basic lands in the deck so you at least get an advantage from Path to Exile or Ghost Quarter . However, if your deck somehow comboes off of basic lands (such as decks that use Earthcraft ), then it's always going to use basic lands, but it's always going to be mono colored also. It's fine to use basic lands if you're mono colored.

By definition, a debate is a conversation in which one attempts to disprove the other. You also did little to attempt to back up what you said or did, you just said a lot of "it's my deck", and "no I'm not putting it in". Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy.

For the last time, NO, it is not solely based on my friend's goblin deck. I have explained many times that I usually say goblins in place of aggro. I also had suggestions that would help in general and not against specific decks. You're cherry picking what I said about goblins. All I did was point out aggro a few times.

1 year is NOWHERE NEAR experienced at all. I have been playing for almost 3 years and I know that I am STILL NOWHERE near being a mastermind of the game at all, because there are so many aspects to this game that you learn as time goes on. At one point I thought I learned all there is to the game, but I looked at some other things such as deck lists of other people, some of the older cards, and all the combos there are, and then I realized how stupid I was. 3 years later, I still am learning new things about the game. You're not an amateur, but you're nowhere near experienced either.

Ohthenoises

I highly suspect that this is one of those suggestions where it only really helps a single deck.

He could either use Cyclonic Rift or find space to put in Brainstorm .

UmbrotheUmbreon

I don't think legendary creatures are strictly one-ofs. With the exceptions of the 3 eldrazi titans, legendary creatures are probably 2 or 3 ofs but never 4-ofs. If however, it's not a card necessary to win or if it's not as helpful, then they are fine as one-ofs just like any card is.

Can you like, go away? I said I wanted this dropped, and yet you're still posting, and now insulting me on top of it. Stop posting before I report.

Wherever it says you conceded, I missed it. If you say such now however, you probably did say so. Thank you for this very interesting debate, I very much enjoyed it and hope you did too. I look forward to the next time we meet.

Just out of curiosity, I'm having a hard time finding the report button or any other possible way to report users, comments, or anything related. Could you tell me how to do so?

BTW, +1 for putting up with all this (no rule saying that you can only upvote because of the decklist, right?)

203995014 reports are usually handled by moderators.

Ohthenoises

So does that mean UmbrotheUmbreon is a mod? If not, then what do you mean by that?

It means I can go to a mod and report you. I asked you to stop cause I was tired of hearing you give the same rant about my choices, and how you make my deck look like some noob trashy deck just cause I won't take out certain cards and add in ones you think are better, and telling me I'm using the cards/deck wrong or improperly. Then you proceed to tell me I never take the suggestions people offer me, when if I did that this deck would be TOTALLY different than it is now. Lets not forget the lovely insult you decided to use. I think I have a good enough reason to be angry and want you off my decklist page.

Sigh... No... YeaGo runs the site,Epochalyptik is a mod, and Squire1 handles the community. If someone wanted to report something they would raise the issue with them.

Ohthenoises

"reports are usually handled by moderators." made it sound like the mod did the reporting.

UmbrotheUmbreon

Okay, thanks for answering.

I don't think giving the reason to why you conceded was necessary. Also, you're the one that decided that I was making it look like a shit deck put together from packs. I didn't just make up bullshit when I said never took suggestions. I looked back at the earlier updates and the comments made. (In case you didn't know, when you create updates and choose to clear all the comments, the comments you cleared are still visible if you click the update). Like I said ~5 comments ago:

"Out of the ~50 suggestions people gave you (And yes, I looked back at all the old comments), you always attempted to shoot them down, and the only ones you even considered are the ones you added which is Coiling Oracle , Hinterland Harbor , Harrow , and Fog Bank ."

That insult was a very bad mistake of mine. You get points for that.

And finally, before I leave, I will say that Appeal to consequences is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

Have a good day, and the unsubscribe button has been clicked.

better drama than tnt D:

@gufymike: Haha, well people just think they are everything. I refuse to just sit back and be told what is good for the deck I'm using and how to use it. So was that all you came here for was the drama? :P

/me snickers... Yup. When it comes to casual, I don't think input is really needed as the deck has it's own goals and ideas, as stated. I only give input/suggest on competitive decks that are in my area of expertise. I really do hate it when people try to turn my fun decks into a clone of another deck also.

Well I do want to improve the deck but I still want it to be fun and laid back, not some typical deck that you always see. Yeah ramp is seen everywhere. However this is my take on it, and it is a bit different than most ramp decks. It works, it ensures that the game doesn't end too quickly, and it is a lot of fun with different results each time.