then we can voice chat maybe

Sorry about not having time to play, it turns out that life always decides to be really difficult whenever I try to cram something into my schedule, which is probably my fault. However, I finally have time to schedule a game on Untap. Would this Sunday work for you?

Oh tell em about it. I been uber busy all month all of the sudden, college just decided to cram a load of work onto me and then mid term tests was a beast while still haveing my basic work schedule. Sad, I would like to play. oh well, at some point lols. I'll have a load of free time in summer.

probably, sunday. maybe... depends honestly I can't tell. the most annoying thing about my schedule is its unpredictibility, I only know what will happen the next day and not much farther with any accuracy. that's college life for ya...

most regularly though sunday monday i'll be open. its the most possible lols %

I don't really see why Loxodon Smiter is a counter to 8Rack. Sure, you can get a 4/4 for free, but that's not just going to win the game for you. They can still just strip your hand and kill you. The Smiter is good, yeah, but he's not going to secure the matchup for you.

No but he does 'help'. its more of, I am screwed; however, smiter makes me less screwed lols.

Actually I have faced several 8racks and smiter crushes them utterly/literally/figuratively. 9/10 of the 8rackers say 'oh F*@#' when smiter comes down. Its not that the card alone is threatning but moreso That I am powering it up. I get Noble Hierarch out turn 1 and sometimes Qasali Pridemage and then Slayers' Stronghold and then I am all of the sudden swinging haste as an 8/6. This is typical causse these pieces are turn 1-2 drops and a land that usually I draw because of the length of the game. nonetheless, smiter on its own just throws an 8racker off kilter; much like Voice of Resurgence does to a counter deck. I like it.

but I am always looking for better anti-control both blue counter and black discard. cause they are the 'only' decks that have a chance against my deck. its usually a 50-60% win for me as it stands which is not at all ideal. any other deck though I have something like a 92% win (calculated from victories from online play.)

And how many 8rack decks have played Ensnaring Bridge against you, because if it's a decent 8rack deck the answer should be: all of them.

Abrupt Decay, Qasali Pridemage, Destructive Revelry to remove it.

and he has personally done this to me. AND i have Ensnaring Bridge out and no cards in hand. I used to run a pretty nice discard deck with the bridge in it. it now doesn't have ensnaring bridge just tons of board wipes.lol

anyways he attacks with Noble Hierarch who is 0 power after it attacks it gets exalted bonuses from itself and whatever other creatures are on field. then he uses Slayers' Stronghold and it slips right under the bridge to often do 4 + damage because it began the attack as 0 power. So yeah he has that covered.lol

i can do something similar with my Steppe Lynx and *#&# tons of landfall in The best non valakut scapeshift deck! turn 3 win!. :P

Well liliana is a thing and most 8 racks play at least some victim of night. It doesn't matter though, it's not a fantastic deck anyway.

Yah 8rack is just kinda a funzies deck to me. like red/burn decks, it merely an irritation. like kylothian said, the bridge is absolutely no threat to me. I have an abundance of removal for it as well as small creatures with after-attack buffs. Liliana can't sit long enough do sac all of my critters. Its really a lottery for 8rack to beat me cause I just have an abundance of responses to everything. I can live on my draw xD

What I can't Grok is your usage of Mul Daya Channelers. When it's above the curve, I'd rather have 1 of about 10 different creatures instead, when it's a dork I'd rather have 1 of another 10 guys and when it's neither all it does is give the opponent information. yes, combined with fetches and shuffle effects your can sort of manipulate your draws, but that doesn't matter when they can see that removal spell or threat you're about to topdeck and prep an answer.

for the reason you don't like it, is why I do like it (except for the information being revealed.)

the card reveal give me more efficient draw due to fetches. and it allows domri to be more efficient in drawing since I can decide to draw or force combat if there isn't a critter on my library. I could also fetch to have a critter show for domri to grab. knight also can shuffle library. literally top deck control which is a step down from card draw.

mul daya is either a beast or a mass mana ramper. rarely is she a 2/2 wimp and if so I can 9/10 times shuffle the deck to get something better. The idea with muldaya is to be random. 1 turn she is swinging with exalted assistance and dealing dmg, next she's helping me cast Phyrexian Obliterator or allowing me to dual cast low costs from my hand.

all that for 3 mana, its a good deal to me.

Athreos, God of Passage

nickiru: I understand why you like this deck. However, rogue decks are typically incredibly high-synergy, and this isn't. I understand that there are some very powerful synergies in here, but not on the level of, say, Bogles, Amulet Bloom or Merfolk. You're going for a deck where every individual card is good, and you're running sub-optimal cards in it. that seems problematic.

hmm, ok.

I been doing a large series of games for the past couple months with it and it wins +90% of the time. So whether the sub-par cards are good or bad, they work.

Dunno, what exactly are you saying?

cause too much synergy makes the deck dependent on itself. which is what bogle and merfolk are like; mono or dual colored with '1' focus. where this deck has a wealth of focuses with independent and self-sufficient cards that happen to have synergistic properties with the deck. the synergy is a bi-product of the individual good cards and not a primary objective.

My friend kylothian is doing the opposite theory which is a primary focus with a wealth of synergies. whereas, my deck is wealth of focuses with some synergy. (if that made any sense.) you may be interested in his deck. Its very competitive and is still in development stages: The best non valakut scapeshift deck! turn 3 win!. both our decks have subpar cards but the decks win so...

you might be interested in his deck :D its more aggressive than mine. mine is more control based.

but yah, i'm fine with my deck. if there are problems point them out; I may reject them or counter argue but I still would like to hear your thoughts. maybe we can educate each other. :D

What I mean is that your deck seems like a Junk or Jund deck in modern, just with Channelers, Obliterators, and Ob Nix, among other things. These three all seem pretty weak in a multi color s=deck: High colored mana cost, high cmc, don't provide instant value, they just don't seem that good compared to Siege Rhino and his ilk. I'm all for originality and creativity, but if you want to be competitive you can't run sub-optimal cards for the sake of creativity.

for comparison: Siege Rhino enters for 4 mana, 3 colors, and Lightning Helix's the enemy; also is a 4/5 tramp. which is impressive.

Ob Nixilis, the Fallen is 5 mana but requires only black. aside from colors, for 1 more mana than rhino, obby comes down and I can utalize a fetch to do 3 damage upon entry like rhino (though I dont gain life.) Optimally, I can be holding a fetch, cast obby, play fetch and then fetch, Knight of the Reliquary can fetch a fetch and then I crack the fetch. in the end of the combo (which is very common) I did 12 dmg to teh enemy instant speed. If the enemy is wide open, I can search for a Slayers' Stronghold and do 9 dmg with landfall and potentially swing haste doing 9 + 12 = 21 dmg (whiuch I have done often as well) the latter combo is achieved by being in late game or having Mul Daya Channelers to add 2 more mana to my pool (there's another convenient use for her.)

Its similar to the Tarmogoyf to Knight of the Reliquary argument. Goyf is good but he hits the field and is just a big meat bag for a low cost (likewise with rhino.) Knight for 1 more mana has an unspeakable amount of benifits/combos/synergies and in the end becomes far more powerful than goyf. obby can hit the 20's in power easy and would have done 17 from its static ability to get there. that's the idea with obby to name one.

Its like choosing between end game or early game power. rhino and goyf are early game and obby and knight are late game. because of this, this deck has a very large end game curve. If the game goes too long, i simply win. Start-up aint an issue because of the burns/removal delay and the generally low cost cards like knight/muldaya and qasali. this is a basic theory for mid game decks that I'm implementing which is to delay 'till the big guns. Though, too often my delaying kills people too xD and that's why this deck is winning so often. I can rush, and if that fails, the endgame power curve is still massive.

If you really want an endgame deck that can rush, how is this any better than Tron? T3 Wurmcoil Engine, T4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is way, way better than T3 Knight of the Reliquary, T4 Phyrexian Obliterator, swing for like 5-ish

Dunno, tron is like a any other mana ramp deck. If their one beast gets countered or removed, they just burnt their hand to do it and are top decking (not that extreme whic is why the deck is good but) My deck I can knight and then phyrex while having a hand of responses to protect them or clear a path.

Tron vs this deck is halarious cause I can force combat phyrex to emerikal with Arena or to wurmcoil with domri. dunno, tron just seems ot run outa gas if their big piece dies which easily happens in modern. its better to have a lot of midranged pieces than a few large pieces.

Thing is, your deck just scoops to removal, and all you have for removal is burn. How bad is it when you land your obliterator or ob into a Path to Exile? Pretty damn bad.

Not too bad, if they path obliterator than that means I have other infrastructure that wasn't removed. If they remove that, than its obliterator who lives. I honestly don't like the removal argument cause its up to the opponent what dies and whatever lives I have is still threatening. If they can remove everything, than their deck is the best deck in magic if they are still able to kill me.

Removal/counter heavy decks are the hardest thing to beat with this deck; however, its merely a 50% lottery on who wins. Where this deck beats nearly everything 90% of the time, control is the only struggle. It definitly doesn't utterly lose to removal, the games just go on for hours and its again a lottery on who draws more counters (the enemy) or creatures (me.)

You will never get to fight Emrakul against Tron. Ugin wipes all your non lands, Emrakul kills all of your lands.

Tron does not have "1 beast", as you say. 3-4 Wurmcoil (which can only be removed by Path, Emrakul (which is invincible), 4 Karn, means that the threat density is high. Additionally, if even 1 resolves, you die, and most of their threats are basically invincible forgoing Mana Leak.

The more you talk about how this deck just beats any other deck in Modern, and the more you demonstrate how little you know about any other deck in Modern, the less I believe that you have ever played against a competitive deck.

what do you do against amulet bloom? Turn two primeval titan with haste seems good against you

I don't mention hive mine because very few decks can beat turn two hive mind + summoners pact