OOOOO, Now that is the utility card I am looking for. It probably won't replace Jorubai Murk Lurker , he gets me a lot of life, but courser will most likely go in. Thanks lots :D

This might sound harsh, but I think that the "competitive" hub is misleading and should be taken off. The deck looks fun, but a five color deck that wants to curve double green in to quadruple black can't really be competitive in the current modern environment.

Can you explain why please? Many say that and I disagree with it a 'lot.'

I just made some changes, so if you want to look before commenting. lol, i added more black :D

Well, the reason I just stated. It seems just incredibly hard to have quadruple black t4, and if you have it, you probably took a lot of damage (through shocks and fetches) to get there. Also, I don't see much synergy in the deck, contrary to the name, besides a lot of creatures and Mul Daya Channelers and Domri Rade . What's the theme of the deck? What are you trying to do with the deck besides playing creatures. It's obviously not aggro, so it's closest to a midrange strategy with only creatures, not disruption or removal, too many lands, and inconsistent fixing. Jorubai Murk Lurker and Ethersworn Adjudicator are pretty sub-par creatures and don't contribute to any strategy in particular.

Just so this doesn't sound like I'm being a critical, unhelpful, jerk face, here are some changes I'd make: Take out all of the Murk Lurkers, Adjudicators, and (I know it's painful) Obliterators. Obviously change the land base to remove the black, and lower it to 24 lands, tops. Then, I'd at some combination of Lightning Bolt s, Path to Exile s, and Abrupt Decay s in the main board. Many people don't have enough money to spare, (including myself) the optimal version of this deck would include some Tarmogoyf s.

Explanation/ rant over.

Lol, o please, I won't be insulted. I love people's ideas, please be hyper critical. don't be afraid to be blunt with me, just back up your claims; helps me understand your point of view and then I can make a proper counter argument if I disagree.

Which, I disagree.

The synergy in this deck is actually pretty cool and surprises people on 'untap.in,' where I playtest. On many forums I claim that Phyrexian Obliterator is not an issue to get out. Honestly, he is not. Occasionally, believe it or not, I can turn 3 him. It requires a certain optimal setup which is some green mana and Noble Hierarch turn 1, Knight of the Reliquary turn 2, turn 3 I sac a land through reliquary and get Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and plop phyrex down (I know they can just do some removal but again, occasionally I get lucky. I am just saying that I can.) Or I usually just turn 4 or 5 him using fetches for a black or two and then Mul Daya Channelers the other black. Late game, I just fetch the blacks or draw them over time but 7/10 times I get him down turn 3-5 which is seems unbelievable to some people. Also assuming I have him in hand of course. If I don't, I have good enough control over my mana in-game that I cna go whole games without revealing black; then when I need it (blamo) i got it all and then phyrex, force combat using Domri Rade and win. lol... I beg people though, that when suggesting cards to me or deck strategy to please ignore colors. I can handle it I promise.

I completely agree, I need removal. Holy crap I need it. I really want the removal to be creatures of some sort, but that is proving to be impossible so I will probably throw in some removal... unfortunately, I like having my pure creature deck.

About synergy now: I'm gonna make the deck description about as many combos that come to mind right now, so give me a min in case you look at this comment 2 sec about I submitted it, lol. But read the description for all synergistic junk.

i play this guy a lot trust me the deck has no issue getting phyrexian out t3-t5. ussually its t3-t4 capable.

Nice improvements to the deck/description. Now that it's lowered down to four colors and those two cards are gone, the deck looks a lot better to me. One thing, I'm confused about Phyrexian Obliterator t3. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth doesn't make Noble Hierarch a swamp.

Also, I still think that PtE/Bolt would be better, but if you want creatures that destroy other creatures, Shriekmaw is okay.

Honestly, this deck needs removal in the maindeck. You need to stop opposing creature combos, so Path to Exile , Lightning Bolt and maybe some black removal need to be in there.

I honestly have no idea why you think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is good in this deck. He's a 5 mana 2/2 that gets removed very quickly, and he doesn't win you the game, so I advise against playing him.

Here's an idea: Try cutting the red entirely. You lose Domri Rade , and I know you're not even going to listen to me and claim that he should never go. YOUR MANA WILL BE BETTER. It's bad. If you could play Phyrexian Obliterator , Cryptic Command and Leatherback Baloth in the same deck, but had to play 20 Birds of Paradise , would you do it? No. You take too much damage from fetchlands, and it's way too much effort just to splash cards that could be better off as other things that don't tax your manabase as much.

What if they kill your Knight? What if they kill your Mul Daya Channelers? I just playtested this deck against a competitive Jund deck, and after I killed those two creatures your deck could never cast another relevant spell.

Try playing Junk Obliterator, and if you really want the Domri Rade effect play Pit Fight .

Honestly, this deck needs removal in the maindeck. You need to stop opposing creature combos, so Path to Exile , Lightning Bolt and maybe some black removal need to be in there.

I honestly have no idea why you think Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is good in this deck. He's a 5 mana 2/2 that gets removed very quickly, and he doesn't win you the game, so I advise against playing him.

Here's an idea: Try cutting the red entirely. You lose Domri Rade , and I know you're not even going to listen to me and claim that he should never go. YOUR MANA WILL BE BETTER. It's bad. If you could play Phyrexian Obliterator , Cryptic Command and Leatherback Baloth in the same deck, but had to play 20 Birds of Paradise , would you do it? No. You take too much damage from fetchlands, and it's way too much effort just to splash cards that could be better off as other things that don't tax your manabase as much.

What if they kill your Knight? What if they kill your Mul Daya Channelers? I just playtested this deck against a competitive Jund deck, and after I killed those two creatures your deck could never cast another relevant spell.

Try playing Junk Obliterator, and if you really want the Domri Rade effect play Pit Fight .

I agree with thispersonisagenius

turn 1 noble ,turn 2 play fetch look for a godless shrine play knight, turn 3 float black mana sac godless look for urborg play phyrex.

assuming land was played each turn

Here's a thought. Cut Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki from your deck. You have no way to search them up, and the combo is just dumb and pointless.

When you cut Kiki-Jiki, the natural next move is to cut Domri Rade , because playing three colors makes casting Obliterator a lot easier. Domri Rade does a lot sure, but wouldn't you rather be playing cheap removal in that slot? Let's do that instead.

Also, too many lands. You curve out at four (at least, you will after you cut the trash five-drops), so you can definitely play 24 or 25 lands.

@kylothian I recommend you stop kissing your friend's ass and think about the deck. It's really just a thrown together pile of all the cards nickiru thinks are "efficient", with a bunch of mana fixing. I honestly believe that if you focus on playing the best cards that work well together, it'll be much better. I understand wanting to do something that hasn't been done before, but it has to be reasonable. It doesn't matter if you can cast Obliterator on turn 3 if you have to kill yourself to do it.

oh you're just bitter about the scooze/tarmy incident. Now look i'm not kissing his ass the reason i'm chiming in is because you people won't pull your head out of your collective narrow-minded rump about what works in a deck. Your reasoning in these arguments is always flawed i just get pissed off when i see stupidity or just someone not putting in the effort to think in the first place(i'm not sure which is your issue) for example, " It doesn't matter if you can cast Obliterator on turn 3 if you have to kill yourself to do it."................really in the simulation i gave you he only lost life for a fetch and shock ...3 life....this is hardly killing yourself. Many competitive decks shock 3 to 5 life every game usually within the first 3 turns you suffer 3 damage from your mana base. You just keep on making comments like that and it's just like please actually think.

What Scooze/Tarmogoyf incident? You were wrong about that.

I would like you to think about what this deck is. Why is it playing Phyrexian Obliterator ? Do you really think that you need to be playing that card in a deck that is already three colors? Are the top-enders like Wilt-Leaf Liege , Thundermaw Hellkite and Baneslayer Angel not good enough to stay in three colors? The answer is that the heavy black splash is not really worth it. Ob Nixilis, the Fallen is not a strong card at all, so really the only reason you are playing black is Obliterator. Obliterator is what many people call a win-more card: it does a very powerful thing, but it's a little overkill. You don't need to be splashing a whole color just for a card that will completely wreck them. There are enough cards in Naya to wreck them, and you don't need to risk bad mana just to have it. You claim that you can always cast it, but even then three colors is always more consistent than two colors.

To summarize: You don't need to be playing Phyrexian Obliterator , because there are options that strain your mana less while still being very good. Cutting the black is a very good move in my opinion, as you get to play some very good removal spells.

@kylothian I would like you to also think. I am doing my best to convince you that the opportunity cost of the Obliterator is too great to play him. You seem to be stubbornly arguing that it should be in the deck, which does not represent open-mindedness. Be willing to learn from people who know more than you do. Finally, insulting people doesn't make you a smart person, and telling several people who clearly know much more than you to think doesn't make you smart either.

nickiru, I ask that you at least try playing just three colors. You will notice that the mana is considerably more consistent, while keeping a lot of the cards you like. If you don't at least try, I don't think it is worth arguing with you anymore. Arguing is only fun when the person you are trying to teach is willing to listen. I'm trying to teach you about not being too greedy about cards, and I want you to learn.

(sorry, massive reply, lol)

CardsAndStuff: "One thing, I'm confused about Phyrexian Obliterator t3. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth doesn't make Noble Hierarch a swamp." Yes, that is true, but I can fetch for at least 1 black, like an overgrown tomb, before hand and then tap it and float black and then sacrifice it for urgorg. Turn 4 I always have had at least 1 fetch so that is no problem. Knight is also mana ramp because I can tap and float the mana and then sac it which adds +1 total net to my pool in the end. Thus I can get quad black turn 3 even.

Hmmm, Shriekmaw does destroy creatures. I'll consider him heavily. Although he doesn't have flash... I want creatures like this. If necessary I can work something out with Alchemist's Refuge so I can cast the removal creatures instantly.

thispersonisagenius: O hi, thanks for taking a peak :D

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is still a good card outside of the pod decks. He can protect himself by coming down and copying Knight of the Reliquary and the copy tapping, sacing, and whipping out a Sejiri Steppe for protection. He is a very good card, I can literally double my arsenal on the field: I can get another mana ramping Mul Daya Channelers (or when she is in 5/5 mode for attack,) copy reliquary to further thin my deck of lands or attack with them because they are massive due to the amounts of lands in my grave, copy Phyrexian Obliterator , and so on. Also I chucked in a couple Restoration Angel s in there so I do have the infinite combo if I happen to have both at the same time. Otherwise, angel on her own is instant speed protection for my dudes and is a 3/4 flying meat-shield or attacker.

I once had Pit Fight in here, lol ahha. And Swerve which surprised people. This deck is going through many testes and card experimentations and I recently cycled those cards out.

I'll listen to you, but I disagree strongly. You don't seem to understand that I have absolutely no problem getting things out. 'if' I wanted to, (if it ain't too boastful to say,) I am skilled enough that I can play Phyrexian Obliterator , Cryptic Command and Leatherback Baloth as well as Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and heck, I'll just toss in some triple white if I can find it. Common, I am doing a bit more than just chucking cards that look cool together. study my mana base and compare with the non manas. I only need 2 green and I can cast all my greens, while I am fetching first turn for 1 damage, I can get Stomping Ground for GR, or GW. I only need 1 W and I can play all my W. I intend to put Godless Shrine back in so I can get WB in addition to GB; I almost had an instance where I needed to do that. (almost.) What happens is I focus on gathering a couple G and 1 W and then let my mid-game mana-rampers and searches deal with getting Quad-Black and Triple Red. I only need 1 red for domri, no prob. If you know of something better than Phyrexian Obliterator for 4-3 mana; holy crap please tell me. otherwise I am keeping him because he is a game winning beast that I never have issues bringing out. Why remove something that is consistent and effective?

"What if they kill your Knight? What if they kill your Mul Daya Channelers? I just playtested this deck against a competitive Jund deck, and after I killed those two creatures your deck could never cast another relevant spell." end quote. Well now that is player skill. If I am fighting some new player and I don't know what they are, or I anticipate removal, than I will put out mul daya or an ooze to absorb something and then a knight. If all get removed than you had a whole hand of removal and we both end up top decking. I can cast my junk in an order so that what I really need is the last and survives. If you wait to counter, than mul daya still helps a crap ton, and ooze absorbs the flesh of my fallen. so pick... If all my pieces are removed and you somehow have more than 30 counters/removal in your deck to do so and are still beating my face in, congratulations you'll beat everyone and have the ultimate control deck that is next to impossible in modern magic.

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lol kylothian and you commented while I was typing, (or I have that trashy of internet), so now I will respond to that too

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"Are the top-enders like Wilt-Leaf Liege , Thundermaw Hellkite and Baneslayer Angel not good enough to stay in three colors?" um..... no they are not. If I fought these creatures, I wouldn't give a crap about them. They are not that threatening and they are just as costly as Phyrexian Obliterator . So.... my logic is, I might as well put in the better card. The card that makes people tremble in fear and quake in their boots. Not some dink that only does standard beat down on the enemy. Phyrex will annihilate the enemy permanents, or kill them. He hualts combat because if I block they are srewed, they suffer damage becasue they don't want to block lest they screw themselves, but when they have 5- life left, they must block, o look he has trample, better block all to kill it, and then sac 5 permanents minimum........ Vastly superior to the other cards that are within my core 3 colors.

thispersonisagenius: you are assuming that 'you' know more. We are more than happily willing to learn from people. It is just difficult when almost all the people think the same things. We are stubborn about phyrex because he is simply WICKED. He is nt a win more when he only costs '4' stinken mana. if he cost 6-7-8, then heck yah I would get alternatives, but holy shot, 4!? that's why we like him.

I do agree, less colors is more consistent. However, more colors is more power. The cost of consistency is very little in the ratio of consistency to power with my deck due to my adept mana control skills. I'm just gonna out right say it, I been avoiding it to humble myself a bit but screw it; you people know not how to get mana. You freak about 3 colored decks?!! I play so many 5 colored decks of mine that are more or equally consistent to your monocolored decks. I am a mana adept, a genius when it comes to mana. My only concern is the non-mana card interactions, that is my weakness. Please, spare me your complaints about my mana base. I'll make a bold claim: you need to learn from people know more than you. Study and learn about my mana and how I am able to cast a Q-black in a 3 color deck. Maybe you can do the same and improve your decks.

anyways, I will try your ideas. In fact I already have if you look at my profile and see some private versions of my deck like the removal model. I test all what you guys say, i promise you that: which is why I disagree. I am not blindly disagreeing. I am testing and seeing how it works and how it doesn't. You are right, it is (however slight) more consistent, and resilient. BUT, the power level is worthless. I have tried the hellkite and all that, they have no synergy and only attack bla bla, I'll stop ranting about that. My deck kicks butt on untap.in where I play-test. When I remove all my pretty costly beasts, I am wimpy and at most equivallent to the opposing player. As I have said before, I want to be different. I have had so many people bad talk my deck and then at the end of the game they say that it is a 'sick' deck (an odd word choice but I know what they mean through context.) If you can't take my word, well.......... I dunno.

Anyways, If you are trying to teach me, I beg you to please be patient. I would like your thoughts. Though, I am a stubborn rock who has many opposing points of view compared to 98% of people. Plus, I say all this in a friendly and debating tone :D

much more thoughtful you gave some solid reasons. I'd be willing to try something in one of my decks if you suggested it like that. i still disagree ,but would be willing to try and maybe be proven wrong.

Now I'd like to point out I've argued nothing about phyrexian other than that he can get out t3 and how.(which is actually more of a fact, not close mindedness) .ooze verse goyf you show the same amount of open mindedness as i do.

The reason I'm asking you to think isn't because i think I'm smarter than you(that doesn't mean i think i am or am not btw). I simply want to see actual reasons why blank won't work because of blank and blank and how blank is better than blank. Not blank won't work do blank. when in fact blank does work. which i think i finally got out of you.

ALL I've said in past comments about phyrexian is that it can be played without bother in this deck and early. as to whether or not he fits in the deck ill continue to stay out of it.

When giving advice i find that if you try out the other persons ideas or just accept some of them or let them pass they will be more motivated to try your ideas. What i want you to be open minded about is that black doesn't significantly strain the deck. This deck runs 20 cards with access to black mana only 3 of them are solely black mana sources. running black in this deck is not hard and does not get in the way of other colors. I'm simply asking you to be open-minded that its not a very large strain to run so much color. I personally try to stay under 3 colors ,because the kind of mana base that nickiru runs can rarely ever so rarely mess up and mainly because of blood moon(should be banned or cost 6 mana. it removes far too much strategy from the game when played turn 3 and is a pot shot card.)

oh and ob nix is a great card if you run fetches and reliquary. if you get him out you can cause land fall at instant speed and do damage before he is removed. average landfall in this deck is 2 so thats six damage if you want to actually cause land fall you can play a fetch and tap it thats 2. then use rell search for a fetch use the fetch thats 4 land fall so a total of twelve damage 3 of the landfall happened at instant speed. actually assured.... plus it got massive. go ahead and remove.......and if you don't its massive and is there for next turn's landfalls.

ob nix is beast

Did some quick speed tests and found the Restoration Angel to be rather poorly applied. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker doesn't fit well with the mana base either. Mind you, I enjoy playing both those cards and when they worked they worked really well, but both suffered from being hard to play consistently out of this deck. Phyrexian Obliterator works because of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth but the mana base just doesn't translate well for most other cards. I think Kikki-Jiki should be switched out for Maelstrom Pulse and the angel for Ruin Ghost that way you can trigger land fall and the protection ability off of Sejiri Steppe Which can also pay for the flicker.

Ha thats what i do in my deck land fall rush

yah Nomp you have a point there. I can agree about the awkwardness a triple red can be sometimes. Phyrex is no issue cause of urborg, but 3 red I can handle only about 70% of the time. I do need to cram in some removal anyways:

You suggested Maelstrom Pulse . I need instant speed removal like Terminate . Can you give me a list of the best low cost creature removal? Also if they can include taking out artifacts or enchantments that would be cool.

the one's I know of are: Path to Exile , Terminate , Unmake , and Putrefy .

If you want 3 cmc or less then I would suggest Mortify or Abrupt Decay with maybe on playing Orzhov Charm mostly for its versatility. Smother is also good. Although I think Vendetta would work really well in this deck. Last but not least is the ever situational but usually amazing Reprisal and Reciprocate !