slovakattack says... #2
It ain't just KikiPod that wins on T4.
Gifts can get an Iona, Shield of Emeria lock by then if there's no threat of removal, Scapeshift can kill you by T4/T5 when it combos off, etc.
Most Modern decks need some form of T4 win, or else they aren't really viable at T1.
September 14, 2014 12:22 p.m.
Kiki pod isn't even the most common variant of pod in general though. Regardless, not being able to battle against any kiki-loop or splinter-loop is just poor play; it's not some cheap trick, it's very easy to respond to. You adapt or die. Any deck that 'forces others to accommodate' is just a decent deck.
You don't have too much to respond to Deceiver Exarch , which is a problem. You don't have much to respond to tron, which is a problem. You suffer against rock, which is a problem.
This deck is pretty messy in general. There's a lot of slow attrition and combo-y pieces, and yet not much control or overall attrition. 10% of this deck is unplayable until turn 4 or later. How do you intend to not lose until then? Given that you have no Lightning Bolt , no Thoughtseize , no nothing. You have to assume that the opponent isn't a complete idiot and is going to respond and act appropriately. There are a lot of impressive creatures in here, but there's not much interaction, and not much tempo.
Also: None of the card pairings you listed above constitute combos particularly, they're just synergistic.
September 14, 2014 12:28 p.m.
If you ARE going to make a midrange, 5 colour deck then what you really need to focus on is all the goodstuff that pressure opponents in modern. Lightning Bolt , Path to Exile , Abrupt Decay , Thoughtseize , Dark Confidant , Liliana of the Veil , Tarmogoyf , Anger of the Gods , Wurmcoil Engine , Voice of Resurgence etc etc. There's tons of stuff that gives you either value or control. You need to focus on those if you want go for a slower build.
Also your current build has virtually no card draw.
September 14, 2014 12:35 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #5
I would suggest finding room to fit another 2 Birds of Paradise , you've got a lot of specific mana costs, and that would help you hit them exactly when you need to.
September 14, 2014 12:38 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
@nickiru You should try playing one of the combo decks to see how skill-intensive those decks are. I'd argue that after Affinity, Pod and Twin (with Pod a little ahead) are the two decks that require the most skill to play optimally. It's not just "derp derp, combo kill you", it requires a lot of thought as to squeezing value from your creatures, knowing what your deck can give you and how to play around certain things. Sure, there are some games where they just EOT Deceiver Exarch on 3 and Splinter Twin on 4, but the real games are those where both players drop to 3 life and few cards and its all about resource management. If you want to beat combo, play discard spells like Thoughtseize , which are great for messing with their plans.
September 14, 2014 1:05 p.m.
This deck is really, really, really sweet! It inspired me to make a similar one, which is only four colors. What's really hilarious about this deck is that it's splashing black for phyrexian obliterator, which is really funny and cool. My deck is a landfall bant deck splashing ob nixilis, but since we have urborg, i dont see why phyrexian obliterator shouldnt be in there too! I've had double knight draws with an ob nixilis, and saccing a flagstones of trokair to get a windswept heath to get a temple garden twice a turn is pretty darn awesome. I would love if you checked the deck ut, and if you could give me some feedback on where the obliterators fit in! Bant. +1!
September 14, 2014 1:48 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #8
would love to see a Nissa, Worldwaker + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen combo actually work
September 14, 2014 2:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent - I think rock is one of the hardest decks to play in the format because it has no coherent strategy, or at least not one that it uses every game.
September 14, 2014 2:18 p.m.
slovakattack says... #10
I vote Gifts for hardest deck to play in Modern :P
Seriously though, the amount of mindgames that you have to do with Gifts are insane.
September 14, 2014 2:25 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
@ChiefBell That's fair, but neither does Pod. I think decks that have more decision points are harder to play, and BGx certainly has fewer decision points than Pod, Twin or Affinity.
September 14, 2014 2:26 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #12
Pod this, pod that. lol I always hear people talking about pod. I've played against several variants and none really give my deck much trouble. Kiki is more likely to go off IMO. Sure u can stop both rampers and the pod itself with Putrefy but Grafdigger's Cage might be a better way of approaching that match up. It costs less & shuts down pod earlier. Also y oh y would u be running 4 Putrefy but only 3 AD? U do realize Abrupt Decay is the better card to pack playsets of?
U don't really need the 2nd Urborg if u r running a playset of Knight of the Reliquary .
I'd rethink your entire mana base. AEther Vial might work. Birthing Pod might work. Or consider a Black core instead of a green one.
Drop Electrolyze . Not worth splashing for. I'd MB Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt
Phyrexian Obliterator isn't as good as u think he is. He's slow. a 4 Turn clock that doesn't start ticking til T4 or 5 at the earliest. Packing a play set of Domri Rade just to pit fight him seems illogical. U much rather have a playset of Liliana of the Veil this would also lighten the strain on your mana base if u switch to a black core. Although if u go the AEther Vial route maybe 2x Domri Rade would be worth keeping around.
September 14, 2014 4:06 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #13
I dunno, B/Gx is pretty damn versatile and can adapt to almost any situation game one, it can come with quite a bit of decisions as it's designed to grind out games bit by bit. Not blocking something once can be a fatal mistake. I've never really piloted Pod or Twin but I certainly find Control of the blue type 10x easier to play than control of the B/G type
.Also...maybe Forked Bolt instead of Electrolyze ?
September 14, 2014 4:15 p.m.
Holy crap! Comments! :D im so happy, thanks y'all
now to respond to all...
What's rock? You guys have mentioned it multiple times. I never heard of it before.
slovakattack: I know there are other combo decks that are nasty early on aside from kiki-pod. I just think kiki-pod is to easy done 'and' you can't fight it. Iona, Shield of Emeria is nasty, but one can fight it with what has already been put out. infinite haste tokens, eh, can't fight it. You either die or respond. If i can't respond to ionis, o well I can still struggle on. That is playing the game, not just losing.
ChiefBell: o I know pod isn't that prevalent. But as I said before, I just have a personal hate for it. It has little to do with its popularity and such...
Also, I do have some 'good stuff' in here. 4x Path to Exile . I do have some card draw, Domri Rade , and Mul Daya Channelers can increase the efficiency of my draw as well as the quality of it. I can shuffle away a card I don't want and draw a potentially better card. So I have some: enough card draw. Any more and it ain't worth it because usually it is determined whether you live or die by turn 4. I also 'do' have a lot of card interaction going on; the list is my description.
So when combos are referred to, is it infinite combos? Cause to define combination is 2+ pieces together to work better than that of each piece by themselves. But I think I understand what your meaning by combo deck so, I'll change my thingy to midrange.
PlattBonnay: I do have a lot of spacific mana costs, a couple more birds will speed the deck up as well as give me colors. I was intending to drop a couple lands and that may be where I cram in a couple extra birds. That would help.
GlistenerAgent: hahaha, I have been hearing teh speach about how combo decks are hard to play and i have played pod and all that for the xp. thus my ever/over-flowing hatred for them. It ain't hard. It's a cake walk. But I do not want to argue the difficulty of combo decks, just understand I don't like them. I would like to leave it at that please...
Its_Johnny_Bravo: lol that would be a cool combo :D
Murpy: haha cool murphy, glad I can be inspirational. Sure I'll check out ur deck xD
APPLE01DOJ: hey, good thoughts here:
Really, that is true about my playset of Knight of the Reliquary . However, they get removed and I just wanted to at least double my odds of drawing an urborg by tossing in another. It has been helpful from time to time, but if I had to remove a land that would be one of the first. That may be where I toss in a Birds of Paradise maybe. or more removal.
I would do Forked Bolt , I was all excited 'till I saw it wasn't an instant. Electrolyze is so worth the blue, trust me. Colors is not an issue really, all I am concerned about is the card's efficiency which Electrolyze is freakishly good. Lightning Bolt only can kill one 3 toughness or less, or 3 to the player. Whereas, Electrolyze can potentially kill 2 things, or 2 to teh enemy, or kill one thing and 1 to teh enemy, and replace itself by drawing a card. That has ben a lifesaver against kiki pod decks by killing kiki, or mana two mana ramp creatures. Also good against token decks.
I have used Birthing Pod a while ago actually. It wasn't to the specs I was wanting, but it is still something I have hanging in consideration if my deck shifts enough for me to bring it back in there.
I am heavily considering a black core over green. It would have more removal: via Thoughtseize and such, and liliana.
Actually: Phyrexian Obliterator is super super cheap. I would consider overpowered. a 5/5 tramp for 4 mana is fairly decent, but then his eldrazy-like ability: youch that is amazing for 4 mana. He halts combat entirely. If I can slap vigilance on him through Slayers' Stronghold , it is like a win. Reliquary acts as protection through Sejiri Steppe for him if I ave her out so he can be unblockable possible to sheltered from removal. obliterator is beast.
Domri Rade is just a good card that I have in there. Him + phyrex is just a really nice combo. He is card draw and creature removal. If he lives long enough, he is a beast buffer.
_____________-
About some cards: I want removal that is mostly reactive rather than proactive. Thoughtsieze is very good card, but it won't stop kiki 'on' the field. It 'may' prevent it or delay it. I would rather a Path to Exile and Electrolyze sitting and waiting in my hand to eliminate it upon entry.
If I go a more black route, I will probably put in some thoughtszs and inquisitions.
September 14, 2014 4:36 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
Rock means BG midrange, with Tarmogoyf , Dark Confidant , Thoughtseize and Liliana of the Veil . It's just a generic midrange deck, with spinoffs in Jund and Junk midrange.
Pod is very prevalent. It's the second or third best deck in the format. If you think that it is a cake-walk to play a Birthing Pod deck, you are just completely misinformed. There's a reason only a few people are considered masters of the deck, and I'm mostly sure you're not one of them. When it comes to this deck, I advise against playing Pod because your deck is not sufficiently built around abusing it, meaning that it will provide less value than in actual Pod decks.
I will again argue that you should be playing Lightning Bolt , not only because of colors but because of efficiency. You can play what you want, but certainly try both. Killing mana dorks is about the only place Electrolyze is better in this deck, as you have lots of expensive spells to cast and would like to have your removal be cheap.
September 14, 2014 4:44 p.m.
GlissasTraitor says... #17
This is an interesting concept. Ive built similar decks that Ive been winning with and everybody tells me "Its no good man. Simplify your deck!" Why should I if Im winning?! I would possibly think of using Zhur-Taa Ancient . Maybe Rune-Scarred Demon just in case you need a card. Over all I like this deck though.
September 14, 2014 5:12 p.m.
I'm still voting Ruin Ghost because it synergies well with this deck. Also, Pit Fight so you can get a little more bang out of Phyrexian Obliterator .
September 14, 2014 5:35 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #19
I think the issue that you're not addressing nickiru is your deck doesn't have enough ways for you to control the board state or in general survive until u can get your fatties out. G/B has no problem dealing with Obliterator between Maelstrom Pulse Putrefy and Liliana of the Veil Most other decks will pack Path to Exile Beast Within Rapid Hybridization or some sort of answer for it. If you're playing straight burn, you're still on the quicker clock even if they have no answer for it, especially given the state of your current mana base.
Affinity will have u dead before u can cast Obliterater, so will Infect, so will Twin, so will Tron, and the decks that can't kill u by then will be controlling the game in some way. Hatebears will have u locked, U/W will have u eating counters, Rock will have u without a hand. 8Rack will have u without a hand.
The whole ramp into fatties does work but u have to go about it differently then just mana dorks and fatties with a sub-optimal removal package.
September 14, 2014 5:49 p.m.
Nomp: Ruin Ghost is interesting. My friend kylothian uses it in his landfall deck and protection deck. It could find a place here, however it would be like a lesser Knight of the Reliquary . I mainly would like to use ruin ghost as a protector through flickering Sejiri Steppe . knight already does that, ghost would continue the protection afterwards but that is a bit piece sensitive. The other too cards you showed me are cool, but they are rather high in cmc. I would like to keep things below 4 mana, 5 is pushing it. If it costs 6, I want it to be an 'i play it, I win' type of card, lol
GlissasTraitor: o preach it bro. I could right a book about how people tell me "Its no good man. Simplify your deck!" Which leads me to a bit of my rant down below...
Warning: rant...
APPLE01DOJ, "survive until u can get your fatties out." ?
"Affinity will have u dead before u can cast Obliterater, so will Infect, so will Twin, so will Tron, and the decks that can't kill u by then will be controlling the game in some way. Hatebears will have u locked, U/W will have u eating counters, Rock will have u without a hand. 8Rack will have u without a hand."
eh... I don't see another way of saying this but... I believe you underestimate this deck by 'far,' by a long shot. I have answered to each of these on 'untap.in': affinity, rock, tron, infect, 8rack and so on. I'll sum it up with this: the deck is focusing on 'singularly, independently, self-sufficiently' powerful units. A control deck/discard deck can't stop 'all' my critters + domri unless they have 28 discard/counter/removal spells. If one of my beauties gets by, it is havoc for them. Tron can spit out a karn, but I just gang beat it with my pile of creatures, or they can spit out emrakul, so I block with Phyrexian Obliterator after sacing all my lands and such; or instant speed combat with it through Arena . Affinity doesn't kill in 3 turns, so I will get obliterator out if I drew him. and so on.... I have played many variations of these decks on 'untap.in' and majority players rage quit or compliment me on my 'sick,' as they call it, deck after I outlast and beat them. My deck is good vs creature heavy decks. bla bla and crud and arguing and so on....
GlissasTraitor is right on the money: why should I skew/simplify this deck when it is 'winning' 'consistently' against 'competitive' decks. Thanks by the way GlissasTraitor; also for the card suggestions :D
There is a reason I am struggling to make a proper sideboard. There is a reason I am resistant to swapping out cards. It is because I am having a hard time finding a 'weakness' for this deck. 'every' deck I encounter, whether t1 or down, it is a vicious battle for my opponent to take me down. This deck is a survival deck, long distance runner. (except I have no lifegain, any thoughts on how I could squeeze in life gain? I was thinking Whip of Erebos maybe) I usually outlast my opponents by constant creature supremacy with a pinch of removal for any 'I play this and win immediately' type crap like kiki pod.
I want suggestions and ideas and tweaking thoughts, but you all are trying to simplify the deck. I would ask you to pilot this deck, but since you think piloting kiki-pod is difficult.... I am not sure you would know what to do with 'this.'
Please, refrain from caring about my colors. Please, I beg you. I beg. Ignore colors. Judge cards by there total cmc and there efficiency. I really beg you. Card suggestions and thoughts please.
September 14, 2014 11:11 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #21
I could right a book about your speeling and punctuation
Sure, you've got answers to all the decks. They also have a turn 3-4 kill that you can't answer a lot of the time. You tap out for Phyrexian Obliterator , they flash in Exarch and kill you. You should know that Affinity consistently kills on turn 4, and turn 3 is by no stretch of the mind uncommon. You should really become familiar with the other decks in the format.
I'll explain again that control is drawing more cards than you are. They only need to counter Domri Rade , and after that they will systematically Snapcaster Mage removal spells until you are topdecking while they have all the resources they need. Understand the theory behind control decks before you say that "I have 28 creatures, so they need 28 removal/counterspells", which is complete and utter bullshit.
I think you underestimate how much of a house Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is. Explain to me how you block that with Phyrexian Obliterator .
"I am having a hard time finding a weakness for this deck." That's cool. You might as well play without a sideboard, since you've covered all your bases.
If you think your deck is harder to pilot than Kiki-Pod, you are drunk. There are very few decision trees in this deck, at least from the several playtests I have done with it, while playing Kiki-Pod inherently gives you access to a wide range of cards at any single time.
If you continue to be an incredibly stubborn person and not even consider the advice that is being given to you by people just because they leave a hateful comment, I really don't know what to say. Only listening to the people who compliment your decks and ignoring/fighting all others will get you nowhere.
September 14, 2014 11:26 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #22
U can't use Phyrexian Obliterator to block Emrakul, the Aeons Torn btw
September 14, 2014 11:34 p.m.
( sigh ) I'll start here
here is one: Arena + phyrexian = anti emerukal. I will admit that both me and that other player forgot it had flying, lol I laugh now, poor sucker xD I'll tell him dat one.......... but moving on.
(this is mostly pointing at GlistenerAgent)
If you think I am stubborn and won't listen, then by all means go away. I am not holding you here GlistenerAgent. I am listening, I am just trying to not make a conventional pile of predictability. There is no chance of me getting an edge in teh world if I do 'everything' that 'everyone' says.
Those people who compliment my deck take a friendlier tone. I will respond accordingly. Also, I reject majority of what anyone says, including people who thought my deck was kinda cool. Please do not think that I am improperly distributing attention. You have absorbed much of my time and energy. You have given me plenty of good laughs, but now I ask: stop being a demanding jerk and/or go away. I do not believe you realize how 'patient' i have been with you. Multiple times I have been yerning to unload my wrath verbally on you, but I restrained myself out of fear of not getting any other possible good ideas from you. Now it seems that you are merely trying to convert me and question my deck's power.
I'll say this now to conclude my rants: if I disagree, move on to anotehr topic or leave. That is how I work with people and it comes across so much better. Here is a prime example of what makes a good/rich comment: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-08-14-rain-of-trolls/
go there and read my advice and thoughts about that dudes deck. I was not pushy, I was thought provoking, and I don't give a crap if he rejects 100% of it.
DO this with me please? And this can be so much easier. I ask for your thoughts, and I have had them if all you can do is bicker.
September 14, 2014 11:46 p.m.
GlissasTraitor says... #24
What format are you going for? Im not sure as it looks like you selected modern but its not modern legal. Here is an idea... I am seeing people bringing the concern of you taking damage too soon. Or having to block these 15/15 dudes. So rather than take it (light bulb!) REDIRECT it. There are plenty of cards that allow you to do this. Such as Treacherous Link , Binding Agony , Backfire , Ragged Veins and Deflecting Palm ect... Also you can make them pay for tapping a creature. I have a black enchantment aura that states something like "When ever enchanted creature taps that creatures controller must pay 3 (colorless) or lose 3 life." I cant remember what it is called but I know there are other cards like this. These would be answers for your problems.
September 15, 2014 midnight
and emrakul has protection, wow me and that dude really messed up, that is funny.
nickiru says... #1
the cards work well in combination:
Phyrexian Obliterator + Arena or Domri Rade
Knight of the Reliquary + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Mul Daya Channelers + Domri Rade , optional + Knight of the Reliquary
and so on. But yes this would be a midranged deck.
September 14, 2014 12:14 p.m.