Okay cool. Welp so far ive had much success with this deck. Only times i really lose is playing against a faster combo, or just being incompetent when grabbing the necro pile and not doing things correctly lol. I still need to get tundra, misty, verdant, and underground sea. But its been doing pretty well without those so far.

Good to hear!

Feel free to drop by the discord too: https://discord.gg/dWytvg8

Hey Suasion, I've been playing this list quite a bit and it's probably the most fun I've had in cEDH. Would you say it is finalized at this point? Also, do you think your previous Shimmer Zur list w/ the Doomsday package still has teeth when compared to this one? Are there any matchups in which you would say TSZ is favored vs. SZ, or vice versa? Thanks!

Hey mattjalldayy, thanks!

It's in a very good spot, not much is changing these days. I think both variants are good, tainted seems to be a little better overall. Tainted has significantly better shimmer lines.

Against nonbasic hate (blood moon, back to basics) or heavier control, the old dd is better. Against hatebears, rule of law style stax, or general grinding, tainted is better at this point.

Wanting to make a new CEDH deck(new to tier 1 combo decks but play against them every weekend) and Im looking into this or your shimmer doomsday deck. Which would you suggest in a meta that people play stax and also mostly turn 1-5 combo wins? Also what would you suggest in place of time twister and the og duel lands dont want to spend too much ATM? Thanks!

Also love both your Zur decks! I really like the description and guides on your shimmer zur deck. It makes it easier for someone that is trying to learn the deck.

Hey, thanks!

It depends on the type of stax you see. Against a lot of nonbasic hate (blood moon, back to basics) or heavier control, the old dd is better. Against hatebears, rule of law style stax, or general grinding, tainted is better at this point.

The fixing is pretty important, and we want untapped lands. That means more painlands, such as caves of kolios, tarnished citadel, river of tears, etc.

Twister just becomes the next best card for the meta. Pongify, nihil spellbomb, faerie macabre, another counter, massacre, etc.

Hello again Suasion,

Thanks for the replies to my original questions! Apologies if I missed this in your primer, but why is Snapcaster Mage excluded from the list?

Also, what consideration have you given to running Raff Capashen as a second Shimmer Myr? He's much clunkier to cast, so you can't really ritual him out like Shimmer, but I'm interested in your opinion.

Thanks again man!

Snappy was cut to play better against stax. It's been falling out of favor in cedh decks, like candelabra has. It's difficult to pay for snapcaster and a flashback spell when stax is taxing or denying mana/ spells per turn.

I think JVP does a better job at recursion and looting (instant speed draw) for most things we want to do on non combo turns.

Raff is a bit too mana/color intensive, and IMO we don't need a 2nd shimmer effect in the deck. You can confirm that it doesn't really help with hypergeometric distrubution (like in the primer) since it adds mana requirements on the end step necro turn, and basically requires more ramp to be drawn

Love the Extirpate , I'm currently testing Shadow of Doubt probably for the same reason.

Thoughts on Jace. Wielder of Mysteries

Gonna test the new Jace, UUU is hard, but it's now a 2 card combo with tainted/demonic

I've been playing kess storm to great success for the past 2 years now. A card that sees a lot of play in vintage and that worked great in kess too is Paradoxical Outcome. It seems to me with shimmer myr out and all the mana positive rocks that this could work out great for both recasting your rocks and drawing into more gas. What are your thoughts?

And has anyone ever thought about including the new Teferi, Time Raveler ? makes sorceries into instants and stops enemey counterspells in one?

I like paradoxical in a staxy jhoira build, but not so much in shimmer. I want individual card quality to be as high as possible outside combo pieces, and paradoxical isn't always good.

The new teferi is overcosted for a silence effect, and passing the turn when it's out means you must now deal with all opponents' win attempts, since they can no longer stop each other.

Emergence Zone will be an inclusion?

It'll be tested, and we'll see how it holds up. We really want colored mana

Narset, Parter of Veils ?

What would you replace Twister with if you had to? :)

Hi Suasion so I'm trying to run a more budget version of list like these as mana crypt, mana vault,mox opal, time twister, etc are too far fetched for me and I was wondering if a more budget version of those cards that I could substitute it would be Lotus Bloom, the new Mox Tantalite or would it be better to just use artifact that is cheap + mana dork. for the storm counts.

And for time twister if speaking hypothetically would echo of eons or time spiral or even Emergency Powers be a cheaper sub.

Would doing this destroy the balance of the deck?

Suspend rocks don't work for the whole shimmer necro purpose, use any other rocks and generators, whatever helps to assemble isochron reversal combo.

Mana positive rocks are pretty important to the shimmer lines, one way to try it on a budget would be with at least 1 more cost reducer. You'd want etherium sculptor and more 2cmc rocks that come in untapped. You'd probably also want paradox engine to tie it all together. In budgetless it's win more, in budget it would be fairly useful.

There aren't good alternatives for twister/imperial seal type cards. You'd just find the next best cards for the deck. If you only have windfall, it may make sense to cut notion thief as well, unless your meta has lots of card draw and wheels.

I mean Time twister isn't absoluty necessary, especially given the gameplan of the deck. I'd go for more instant speed draw to backup shimmer lines or consultation into labman win.

How's Jace Wielder Of Mysteries working out for you as a 2nd Laboratory Maniac, so far?

Why no narset’s reversal?