This is an amazing resource, thanks! I've been browsing it to tune my own Tasigur list.

One question I have about the differences between this and the budget versions. In the No Budget and 400-under lists Dramatic Scepter is the main infinite mana engine, but in the 1500 and 750 budget lists Palinchron is the primary infinite mana combo piece. Is there a principled reason for the use of different win conditions in different versions of the list, or how much of this is due to a lack of updates to the other lists?

I ask because in my list I run two separate mana engines, since (due to the modularity discussed in the Deck Tech video) Palinchron syncs with the reanimator aspect of the deck that I like (and that you've moved away from) while Scepter syncs with the counterspell suite. If the time comes where I need to decide to cut one of the paths to make the deck more focused, I'd like to look back to the answer of this question.

Thanks again.

I have a question on discard. My deck is heavily influenced on this deck list but was wondering if running thoughtsieze and Inquisition would be bad? If you could give your thoughts on this and why you would/wouldn’t run them would be very helpful!

ecmmyers - The budgets lists are actively maintained at this time. Palinchron was the base when they were created and it has been kept there. Razaketh has made the Isochron scepter route quite a bit a better and as such this list has migrated to it over Palinchron + PI. If you are moving to Razaketh + Eldritch Evolution and you have good mana rocks (Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond) then Dramatic Scepter is a better route to go.

Woodxpusher - Targeted discard spells are usually more used by combo decks wanting to proactively protect their win condition. The problems with Thoughtsieze and IoK arise when they are what you are being given back instead of interaction from Tasigur. They aren't terrible cards, but they are aimed at a different line of attack than the rest of the deck. Its more of a proactive control piece where the rest of the deck is running reactive control. I would look at Mind Twist first. With the goal of twisting away the entire hand of an opponent. There is a pretty good chance that if others are scared of that player they will help you nuke that player's hand. Additionally Twist is strong enough that being given it later in the game is perfectly fine. And a player without a hand will be more likely to give you mind twist back so you can twist other players as well.

Hey Cameron,

Why do you play Arcane Denial over Negate? I've been piloting my deck in a more casual meta (75%ish) and have been trying to decide on another 1 to 2 counterspells to add to my deck. I'm trying to decide between Negate, Disallow, Flusterstorm and Arcane Denial. I'm already running FoW, Drain, Pact, Counterspell and Swan song.

@Syncharmony

I'm obviously no Cameron, but I'm playing Tasigur in a "75%" metagame myself so I thought my 2 cents might be helpful here;

• Negate is an all star. IMHO it has a staple status

• Disallow is the best 3cmc counter, but its upside to counterspell may or may not matter all that much to you. By default I myself am playing it, but it isn't crucial

• Flusterstorm gets better as metas become more greedy and faster. It's very meta-dependant and it's hard to evaluate it on its own, but it far from an auto-include.

• Arcane Denial - it's good. Not 'better than Negate' good, but good. It replaces itself which is nothing to scoff at, and giving an opponent 2 random cards in exchange for a legitimate threat is a solid bargain.

IMHO you should add Negate over any of the other 3. As for other slot, slower half of the 75 would prefer Disallow for its utility, and the faster half wants Denial for its low cost and low color requirements. And in extremely fast metas where instants/sorceries are prevalent, Flusterstorm is an option, but by 75% standard it's behind the other 3 on the list of priorities.

I still feel that thrasios and almost any other partner like silas renn, kraum, or ishai would provide a better option over tasigur. His colors are good but red would offer blood moon effects, white gives better removal like swords and path, and silas renn would offer the same colors while allowing you to run thrasios who is better in almost every way. I also feel like this list is trying to be more combo than control? And tasigur seems much worse for combo due to his ability giving you cards back from the graveyard via opponents choice not your own. I may seem to be bashing the deck but I honestly want to know why thrasios was not considered or does anyone agree that he should be?

@Jt5525e10

It's explicitly mentioned, and answered, in the primer in the "Commander Selection - Why Tasigur?" section of the primer...

Syncharmony - Arcane Denial is kept in as a unconditional counterspell at 2 cmc. Additionally there are times where casting it targeting your own Abrupt Decay is the correct play.

JohnnyCRO - Thanks for chiming in. Negate is good, but with Tymna being so big in the top end of cEDH, countering creatures is also needed for this slot. In a lower power meta or one that isn't so creature focused, Negate is possibly a replacement in this slot.

Jt5525e10 - As JohnnyCRO said. Read the 'Commander Selection - Why Tasigur?' section.

hi Cameron!! thank you so much for providing this list. i absolutely love tasigur, and my first build was kind of wonky. after seeing your list, i decided to revamp my entire list to try and emulate your deck. i just want to know how you feel about boseiju in the tasigur deck? you run so many instants, do you feel like this card helps protect you from your opponents? and because it’s a land, it’s a little harder to get rid of? (As opposed to a creature or an artifact, etc).

wolverita - In top end cEDH, there isn't space for colorless lands unless they provide extreme utility. The deck is too color intensive. Also, with the build I have, boseiju would only be usable on roughly half of the instants and sorceries in the deck. Most instants are all colored mana. If it were not colorless mana, it would have a much more acceptable position in the deck.

I'd also caution you that unless you are in a cEDH meta, the build I have posted above will have lots of issues with creatures. You will want to include more board wipes like Yahenni's Expertise and Languish to help manage that.

Hello!

I'm in the process of building this list, though without Chains, Timetwister and the OG Dual Lands.

Can someone explain to me the inclusion of Engineered Explosives? I don't seem to get how it can become a card advantage engine, though I do see I can return alot of permanents to opponents hands.

Peter_Storm - Engineered Explosives is a meta call. Its previous incarnation was a Pernicious Deed. Basically it is a tech board wipe. Deed can be an instant win against some decks but it can also hurt us too much. Explosives allows us to hit a specific cmc that we can also play around. If you are in a meta where moxen and mana crypts fly around it is a 2 mana destroy them all. 3 mana to 1 cmc mana dorks and sol rings/mana vaults. If you know you are going to use it, sand bag those until you hit it. With Deed, we often needed to hit 2 cmc and lost 3-6 mana in the process by destroying our own mana dorks and mana rocks.

Hello Cameron,

First thanks for the great work.

I play a budget version of this deck and I don't get why you play talisman of dominance and elves of the deeps shadows? It doesn'T kill you if you go infinite?

jlcoolj Elves of Deep Shadow helps you turn your green mana in black. It is mana fixing at a life cost. That makes it more valuable than Llanowar Elves and their copies for this deck. The life loss does hurt, but you should be able to mitigate this by not using it for your infinite line. The same for talisman, use it for colorless or only for colored mana until you can get a non-painful route.

How do you think this deck does against non-combo decks? Against being targeted?

Why Nezahal?

Nezahal is a very hard to remove draw engine with big stats. The fact that you can hardcast him through countermagic is sometimes relevant, as well.

Hey Cameron,

Wondering how you feel about some of the new GiR cards and if they find a home in this deck.

• Assassin's Trophy: Seems like the most likely candidate for inclusion, perhaps an upgrade from Rapid Hybridization?

• Mission Briefing: This deck doesn't seem to really care about creature recursion. In this case, is the choose on Mission Briefing vs target with Snappy an upgrade? Plus the cherry on top Surveil 2. I believe you can also play alternate casting costs with Mission briefing which means being able to FoW or overload a Rift.

• Mausoleum Secrets: Probably not worth it with a low creature density but an instant speed black tutor for 2cmc is still a little interesting.

• Mnemonic Betrayal: Can you get enough action from this card to make it worth it? Has a high ceiling of possibility but a low floor dead card a lot of the times.

• Doom Whisperer: My personal favorite card from this set. I'm shoehorning this into my Tasigur deck and I think it will be fine for the slower kind of meta I play in. Probably has no home in cEDH but I'm curious if you see any possibilities.

Sterling0528 - that is a pretty long answer. If you are in a non-competitive meta, you would want to aim at more board clears. If you are being targeted I would question regarding what all is being done at the table. Usually you are the one targeting other people, as most competitive decks are more on the proactive side than on the reactive side.

Jt5525e10 - Nezahal protects himself, draws a ton of cards and gives you no max hand size. He is incredibly resiliant and super worth while as a value card in play. Additionally if you ever to hard cast him, he is has the whole "cannot be countered" ability.

Syncharmony - Assassin's trophy is looking like a replcement for Rapid Hybridization or Dimir Charm. Mission Briefing is probably replacing Snapcaster Mage. The added blue is a challenge, but they cannot remove the target from the graveyard mid resolution of the ability. So you can cast it and they have to react before it resolves, unlike snapcaster. Secrets just is too conditional. Lots of people want it to be good but the chance of it being dead in hand is way too high. Mausoleum secrets is definitely coming in. I'm looking at some adjustments to the deck in general, a tune up and shaving some cmc off. going to see where that lands with some more board clears as well. Possibly Pernicious Deed is coming back in. Doom Whisperer just doesn't seem good enough. You could just as easily hard cast Ad Naus or EEvolve or Entomb/Reanimate Razaketh. The big thing is how much life you already pay into other sources, adding a new life tax to the mix just doesn't seem feasible.

Is Arcane Denial better than Delay? Delay is practically a hard counter in cEDH, and Arcane Denial only has a downside outside your combo turn. So is the card draw off Arcane Denial that relevant?

Also, does Morphic Pool fit here? I suppose Sunken Ruins is better for getting double colors early, and reflecting pool/city of brass are reliable enough early on.

Hello, I am very confused as to why you have the seasons past combo in your deck? doesn't tasigur have an ability that allows him to draw your own deck already?

@Planeswalker_Toshi

Hi! Obviously I'm not Cameron but maybe I can be of help. It is true that Tasigur can win wih infijite mana by getting you all your nonland cards from gy and deck and then going into combo.

However his way your dexk is too reliant on Tasigur. Cursed Totem, Oblivion Ring or anythig of such kind can prevent your combo from going off. SP is an elegant way to effortlessly open up a way to combo off without Tas (you're already playing all the good black tutors you can, that's all you need). An added option of a value play to simply get ahead is a neat bonus that can be relevant if/when the game drags on.

DrLemniscate - Morphic pool is good but Sunken Ruins does more than it. It converts excess black into blue. When we get to the point of needing mana, we always have too much black and not enough blue or green. That is why we have the filters to convert black to either of those colors and not the blue/green filter. We don't really care between those two, just that we have either of them.

Thanks JohnnyCRO. Planeswalker_Toshi - Seasons past is added for two things. First is the cursed totem work around. If Tasigur is unavailable, Seasons Past is a built in replacement for Tasigur. Second, in late game, Seasons Past is a tutor for 3-5 of the best cards from your graveyard. It is never dead and is the gas that is needed to keep you relevant. While Tasigur does get us 1 card for 4 mana. 6 mana get the 3-5 best cards you've cast all game works a bit better for us.

Is there a reason for Phantasmal Image on the deck but Palinchron doesn't?

snowlz - Phantasmal Image remains in the deck as a flex slot. I have pulled it out on numerous testing cycles but its utility is still super strong. I am currently testing a major overhaul for the deck that swaps out roughly 19 cards. If that overhaul is a step in the right direction, PI will step out.