Why no LED? The discard clause seems like it would be sort of nullified at least a little here.

Hi Cameron. Thanks for the great primer!

What are your thoughts on Drowned Secrets as a win condition with the Isochron Scepter / Dramatic Reversal combo?

Hello again, Cameron. I love your Tasigur list and I'm building something similar. Can you please tell me how Intuition helps this deck? I recognize the strength of that card, but I'm curious what it enables so I can justify picking it up for my own Tasigur :)

cadito - Discarding your hand is terrible for a control deck. Cards in hand is a huge resource you need to keep.

werewulf - as a dedicated outlet its pretty bad. It has minimal usage outside of being a combo piece. Not worth it.

tudorghg - intuition has three big uses.

1) If you need something, get three copies of it, they have to give you one. If you need a counterspell, get three of them. Need removal? Get 3 of them. etc. Don't have 3? Get X + Regrowth/Snapcaster/Noxious Revival/Eternal Witness/Mission Briefing/etc.

2) You can setup a Life from the Loam package and just start grinding. Fill in the holes and get what you need. LftL > Fetchland > cycling land > urborb > coffers if in deck. If you have LftL, get a fetch land, cycling land and urborg. Have a Fetchland and Cycling Land? Get LftL, urborg and coffers. etc.

3) You can use it as a double entomb to get an answer for a combo when no one else has one. No one has an answer, cast Intuition, get an answer and then entomb two cards. Could be reanimation targets, could be flashback spells, could be LftL and a fetch land.

Intuition is a huge toolbox, putting any cards either in your hand or in the graveyard.

What’s the point of engineered explosives in this deck?

Just found my answer above. My bad

In what manner is Intuition used? By this I mean: is it used for value or looking for combo pieces. Thanks.

Also, have you considered any cards like Overburden for Blood Pod, Yisan, Edric, or other creature heavy decks in the deck?

I'm working on a control Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow deck, grabbing inspiration from top control Commanders in similar colors.

I've heard Notion Thief is usually a must-include...interested to hear your thoughts on omitting it here. Also curious how you feel about Nezahal, Primal Tide vs. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur as far as reanimator targets.

Have you considered selvala + umbral mantle for infinite mana?

CianHauser - Intuition was talked about two comments above the one you left. I'll refer to that rather than typing it out again. Overburden is more of a Stax piece than what we are looking at playing.

Hissp - Chains of Meph is in the slot that Notion Thief would be in. Tasigur works around Chains as well as LftL. Chains aims at putting everyone in topdeck mode while you work with Tasigur to keep up the card advantage. If chains is unavailable or your general doesn't work around it, use Notion Thief. Nezahal is more consistent card draw that protects itself while also working really well with Life from the Loam. If you are discarding lands and getting them back, the protection is almost never a challenge to keep active. Jin is more bursty card draw but with the amount of removal out there, he rarely if ever gets to your end step, much less an opponent's end step.

Jt5525e10 Selvala is a good mana dork, but costs a lot to get out and is slow for what we are doing. Umbral Mantle is a one off combo piece, it wont work with any other card in the deck. So you have a two card combo, where one is entirely worthless without the other. Not worth it to include at a cEDH level. If you are in a less competitive meta, it could be included.

Even in a lower-power meta, IMO Bloom Tender + Freed from the Real would work better. That's a cheaper combo to pull off and its components do more on their own. Just my 2 cents tho.

BTW, since I'm here, 2 questions for you Cameron;

1) referring to your answer to Hissp, do you think that Notion thief would be a decent inclusion outside cEDH? I'm thinking about including one.

2) I'm thinking about buying Intuition because I would include reanimator package and then the whole LftL engine would be more reliable. More reliable LftL would make it possible for me both to include exploration and reduce the lands' count. Intuition seems like the linchpin of both the lower land count and of the reanimator package to me. However with the new ultimate masters and the fact that I'm a bit tight on funds, how important do you find Intuition to be? Roughly from 1 to 10 talking non-cEDH.

Thank you in advance!

Cameron, can you explain why you do not run Ad Nauseam? Has it ever been considered? How about Demonic Consultation? My apologies if you have answered this before.

JohnnyCRO - I am currently testing some major changes to my Tasigur build ~19 cards out and new ones in. Including Freed from the Real + Bloom Tender. Notion Thief does work everywhere. Extra cards get tossed around a ton and being able to eat those for yourself is very powerful. As long as you have enough removal to get rid of a Consecrated Sphinx when it hits so that you don't instantly die, its a good inclusion. Intuition is great, it has a lot of utility and can be incredibly potent. In the top end of cEDH its one of those cards you want one of to move between decks. If you aren't playing against top end cEDH decks all the time, another tutor, good piece of interaction or instant speed draw spells works in that slot. Play to your meta and put something useful to you in that slot.

Syncharmony Ad Nauseam is asked about a lot. One of the big things that Ad Nause doesn't sync well with is Reanimator Strategies. And while we aren't all in on Reanimator we still have all the same issues when running the Eldritch Evolution package. Several high CMC cards that make an Ad Nauseam very painful. That being said, I am currently testing changes to the deck that will not have the Eldritch Evolution package in the deck and does run Ad Naus.

Consultation does too many things this deck doesn't want. It exiles cards and in the lower end, exiles your whole deck. We aren't running Laboratory Maniac. So losing our deck is never a good thing. If I was to run one of these effects. I would run Tainted Pact as you have the ability to stop at any time.

Yep, I saw the changes. That's partially why I brought up the combo; IMO it's very viable outside cEDH. I'm testing NThief now and we shall se how it works for me.

So what I draw from your explanation is that outside cEDH I'd have better ways to spend that kind of money (especially since I don't have all the needed fetches or VTutor for an example)? Thank you for the imput!

Fantastic primer! I'm thinking of building a deck for a "tuned casual" meta - notably not cEDH - and wanted your opinion on including Krosan Grip and Sudden Spoiling against combos. They've been successful in my other non-blue decks, but are they worth it when you have access to counterspells? Would you always take a counterspell over one of these? Thanks

Have you tested out Assassin's Trophy enough to confirm the replacement of rapid hybridization? Same question for Mission Briefing/Mausoleum Secrets. And do you keep the discord/reddit list more updated than this tappedout list?

Why is phantasmal image in the deck?

Cameron, Why do you run exploration but no burgeoning? I know exploration is generally better but your list does not run crucible or excavator so why just burgeoning

Erneyyy - They cost too much for competitive decks. For tuned but not cEDH metas they are okay. Sudden Spoiling usually requires additional setup to be of real use though.

oliveoilonyaasscureshemorrhoid - I actually have kept Rapid Hybridization in the deck. I added Assassin's Trophy in the flex slot that Phantasmal Image was occupying. I'm using Mission Briefing over Snapcaster now. Briefing has some notable benefits but also has the more restrictive cost. The big benefit is that there isn't an ability for your opponents to interact with your choice, it happens all during the resolution of the spell. This is pretty big when comparing it to the targeted ability of Snap Caster that can be interacted with. Mausoleum Secrets just isn't good enough. I attempt to keep this list as solid as I can and major changes I test out in a secondary list until I have solidified the changes. This allows most consistency in this list. That being said, this list has now been updated to what I am playing going forward.

Sterling0528 - Phantsmal Image was in a flex slot. It was really good for the people I was playing against. It has now been removed for an Assassin's Trophy.

Jt5525e10 - Exploration is more consistent. Burgeoning is more bursty. You need to have lands in hand and your opponents need to have lands to play. Exploration is much more in your control and has less factors required to get you a benefit. Life from the Loam is in the deck to both recur lands and to use cycling lands as cantrips that cannot be given back to you by Tasigur. The case where Exploration is good occurs much more frequently in games than the case were Burgeoning is good, at one point, Burgeoning was in the deck but it has been cut for other mana accelerators.

-Elves of Deep Shadow +Utopia Sprawl -Eldritch Evolution +Mnemonic Betrayal -Razaketh, the Foulblooded +Riftsweeper -Nezahal, Primal Tide +Seeds of Innocence -Engineered Explosives +Pernicious Deed -Life \ Death +Grafdigger's Cage -Necropotence +Notion Thief -Snapcaster Mage +Mission Briefing -Arcane Denial +Stubborn Denial -Manifold Insights +Ad Nauseam -Phantasmal Image +Assassin's Trophy -Training Grounds +Bloom Tender -Eternal Witness +Freed from the Real -Dark Petition +Paradox Engine -Trickbind +Mana Vault -Cabal Coffers +Priest of Titania

I like the changes. I feel like there is something I'm missing / not understanding / you're smarter than me and can explain it:

What is the purpose of freed from the real? I'm thinking it pairs with bloom tender, produces infinite green, and can start going off with tasigur.

Also, what is the purpose behind mnemonic betrayal?

Lastly, what combos with paradox engine?

I apologize for all the questions. I like to use your list as a basis for my version of Tasigur (which is largely this with some budget restrictions).

Thank you!

I found the correct sections in the primer for an explanation. The only thing I didn't see was the reasoning behind mnemonic betrayal.

@nlabelle I can't speak for Cameron's exact plans but Mnemonic Betrayal scales very well for cEDH applications, especially the theft of fast mana artifacts. If I had to guess, Seeds of Innocence was specifically added to the deck to enable a big turn with Mnemonic Betrayal where you swoop in and steal a bunch of Mana Crypts, Vaults, Monolith's, Sol Rings, etc. Can also swipe a bunch of mana dorks after a cheap Toxic Deluge. It's a very fun card with tremendous upside.

nlabelle - As Syncharmony said, Betrayal is used after a board wipe to recast fast mana rocks, mana dorks, cantrips and tutors. Most of the fast rocks in cEDH are mana positive, this means that we can chain them together to get quite a huge mana advantage for future turns while also crippling your opponent's mana bases. You can then use the additional mana from those rocks to cast spells from your opponents graveyard for additional value.

Sorry for all the questions.

What is the mnuemonic betrayal package? It seems like a pretty bad card, but I’m no expert. Also, doesn’t Grafdiggers cage hurt a lot of your deck (Yawgmoth’s, mission briefing, etc.)?