Duskmantle Guildmage also combos with Mindcrank. I would cut Sultai Banner for Commander's Sphere.

Feel free to check out my take on tass (Tasigur's Courtroom).

I've already cut Banner for Sphere, just haven't updated the list. I'm hoping to update all my commander lists this weekend (Made For The Clade, For The Nayan Horde!, and Sacs to the Thrax). I do like the synergy between the Mage and Crank; thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot about him!

I updated my list, and put Duskmantle Guildmage on the Maybeboard list until I find a spot. I'm also considering Smallpox and Mental Agony for Mindcrank triggers, right?

I think you'd be better off running Crypt Ghast or Pontiff of Blight over those two, honestly. They're repeatable and, while more conditional, yield higher rewards.

Mindcrank works off Bloodchief Ascension by triggering an infinite loop of mill-lose-life. Pox and Agony both cause a card to go to the yard AND life loss, thus triggering the loop. I'm looking for cards like those, that trigger win-cons.

Crypt Ghast and Pontiff of Blight, as I read them, both help in triggering the Sanguine Bond+Exquisite Blood combo, which I do like. I only own the pontiff, if I can find him in my collection.

Extort triggers loss of life for each opponent in addition to gaining life for you.

Basically, Ghast and Pontiff will each trigger both of your Combos. ;)

OMG, I just typed up a HUGE write-up explaining everything, and the website bugged out and took it off my clipboard. I hate this site's endless bugs.

Summary: Duskmantle Guildmage's first ab, and Bloodchief Ascension's second ab BOTH cause infinite loop with Mindcrank, but GMage's second ability can trigger the combo, whereas I'd have to deal damage somehow under BCA, which is where Extort triggers come in handy.

So yeah, I do like how it can trigger both. I'll have to track down my pontiff! (or any extorter)

I'd take out Jaddi Offshoot, Thoughtseize, and Raven's Crime. From your maybeboard I'd add Baleful Strix, Dimir Signet, and Kiora, the Crashing Wave.

EDH games tend to go long, and since Jaddi is only kind of effective in the early game as a blocker, it isn't worth it. The strix can block anything and even discourage your opponents from attacking because of the deathtouch. Also, the card draw is pretty nice. As for the single target removal, sure it's nice to get a win con from an opponent's hand, but as you said, this is for multiplayer, and single target discard isn't all that great for multiplayer. So I just suggested more ramp, as well as protection/a threat.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for commenting perfectly lightpulsar9 (add, remove, and explanations)! The deck is for 1v1, not multiplayer.

On that note, Jaddi made the list for early game blocking, but more for the landfall trigger in (1) helping set off the bond combo, and (2) giving me a little life to help ease my way into the mid-game. It's sorta meant to act like another Courser of Kruphix as it was played in standard control last year, but it's definitely one of the top choices for getting axed.

A control deck without thoughtseize feels wrong, and every black control deck I've seen in competitive formats runs it, so I'm gonna hang on to it for now (you're absolutely right about its value in multiplayer, which is why I never used it before I converted the deck into 1v1).

Raven's crime is another card that almost everyone seems to use, but, like you, I'm not sure yet of its full value. I think the idea is that it's a 1-for-X since you can keep using it repeatedly, especially late game when you're drawing too many lands. It's one of the more popular "easy" choices for opponents when choosing thru Tasi's ability.

Ahh. That's my bad, I read "group slug" in your update and immediately thought multiplayer. I commented without even reading the title to the update haha. So I guess you're going for a duel commander deck with the multiplayer ban list? If not, then Sol Ring may be something you should remove since it's banned in duel commander (1v1 commander). One of my earlier suggestions could take the spot if you decide to do that.

Really? The other guys at my LGS use it, maybe they're casually ignoring the ban list since its primarily multiplayer (I just want to have a good 1v1 deck for the occasional duels). If they're totally ignoring ban lists my primeval titan may live again, I'll have to ask.

I would love to put strix in since I love cantrips, deathtouch, and owls!

Sorry for the confusion, you must seen the deck right before I took the group slug tag off during the conversion.

Tasigur is in my top 10 favourite commanders list, as such, this review may run a bit long.

What I would cut from this list. Gaze of Granite, Wraths are good and necessary in EDH, however, this one requires entirely too much mana to be super useful, and there are many other wraths that cost less to cast and do more. Thassa, God of the Sea, the free scry is nice, but you are very rarely going to hit the devotion to make her attack, and the unblockable ability is hardly useful in a deck with 11 creatures, including the general. Exclude, it's just too expensive and situational, even with the card draw stapled to it. Relic Crush This isn't bad, but it's really expensive and there are other options that either do more or cost less.

Cards from the maybeboard that can replace these. Dismiss, it costs one more mana than exclude, but being able to counter anything is vastly stronger than stopping only creatures. Dissolve, This costs the same as exclude, with the added bonus of stopping graveyard shenanigans. Extinguish All Hope Another wrath that clears all creatures, while also leaving your walkers and rocks and such. I like Kiora, Master of the Depths more than Thassa, because even though she's not every turn, she digs deeper and puts things into the yard for Tasigur. Golgari Charm is something I like over Relic Crush, because it does a lot for two mana, and sure it only hits on enchantment rather than two, but it can also wipe a token players board, or save your creatures from a Wrath effect that doesn't prevent regeneration.

Some off the maybe board suggestions I have. Beast Within, Kills any permanent for three mana at instant speed. The Beast it leaves is annoying, but very rarely game losing in the way whatever you killed was. Control Magic you have a low creature count, so having a way to take creatures is good for you. This is the best one that isn't stupidly expensive, and Mind Control also isn't bad. Rain of Thorns is slower than Relic Crush as a sorcery, and costs more mana, but being able to kill three things is good. Most notable about this is being able to kill a land, which is good because getting it back with Tasigur can become back breaking very easily. Strip Mine as I said, there are many lands in EDH which can be game winningly powerful, like Cabal Coffers and Maze of Ith. This kills those and can be used to colour screw someone who plays with too greedy with their colours. Chromatic Lantern makes your mana smooth like butter.

Higher Budget Suggestions. Consecrated Sphinx lets you draw some cards every time they do, which gets absurd quickly. Sylvan Library is a way better Thassa. While you lose the ability to send something to the bottom you'll not need for a while, this lets you view the top three, and elect to draw any number of them for a small bit of life. Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator let you draw your entire library with Tasigur, and cast every card while doing so. The two of them generate infinite mana as long as you have at least three lands that tap for mana, because it costs two to blink them, and Chron untaps seven or fewer lands when he enters. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion deal infinite damage together, because Mike gives Trike undying. Trike deals 1 damage the the opp, and two to itself, causing it to die and undie with four counters, and then you do the process again till they die. Tooth and Nail find your creature combos and plays them for nine mana. Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor are the best tutors in EDH, and I'd rank Vampiric ahead of Demonic, because even though it costs you a draw, having an Instant speed tutor is amazing. Of these, I'd add the Mike and Trike combo first, because it's the one that will win the game pretty much every time they resolve without much other effort.

Suggestions I have based on my Tasigur deck. Rewind is silly in Tasigur, it lets you counter a spell and use his ability in the same turn. Mind Twist is the best discard spell in the game, and it's good at pretty much every stage in the game. Mental Misstep is relevant way more often than it would appear. It's certainly narrow, but costing no mana to cast is huge. Daze is another free counterspell and a great bluffing chip. Just having an Island in play with a few cards in hand will make them never tap out willy nilly once you've used Daze a few times.

I've built several Tasigur lists since he was spoiled, and this is the I currently have, though I'll probably give it an overhaul at some point soon. It's currently built for Multi, but a number of the cards are still great in 1v1. Tasigur's Toy's EDH Note, I've been playing MTG and EDH for a very long time, so my decks price kind of reflects that.

Wow, I like long, long is OK to me, I like discussion. I'll comment more later when I have more time to respond in detail

If you're going to run control, I would take out Darksteel Ingot and replace it with Seer's Lantern.

Also, just for the sheer humor in it and also a very efficient removal, Desert + Vhati il-Dal. It will kill anything that doesn't have hexproof or shroud at instant speed. You can use Expedition Map to fish out the Desert if you need it. That's a pretty conditional removal that requires 2 slots, but it's very efficient.

Diabolic Tutor should be either Vampiric Tutor or Demonic Tutor.

Otherwise, this is looking good. Just be sure to have a decent proportion of counterspells. I usually run about 25% counters in a control deck.

Good luck!

Tasigur is a weird beast. He nets you cards for a hefty price but your opponent gets to pick. Because of this you want to make sure that you always have something strong in graveyard because if your opponent sees weakness he's going to give it to you.

But deckologist what do you mean?!

Don't run ramp spells. Run creatures that tap and untap permanents. They allow you to ramp or they allow you to control someone else's permanent. They also make good chump blockers. So things like Kiora's Follower and Krosan Restorer are your best friend. If an opponents picks these to go to your hand you kinda don't care, he still gave you value of some kind as opposed to him giving you a land fetch spell when you already have 12 lands out.

This also prevents you from having to run cards that exile crap out of your grave. They're just dead space in the deck.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, you need a Crucible of Worlds get more value out of the grave. You can pair that with Oracle of Mul Daya or Azusa, Lost but Seeking or even Exploration to value town those lands.

Alright nayrash5, home from work now, let me explain why I've chosen what I've chosen, for conversation

purposes, I'd like to know your thoughts:

CUT:

• Gaze of Granite can def be pricey to cast, it's pretty much my budget Pernicious Deed

since I don't have it. It does the same, but for 3 mana less (the initial casting cost) upon later

activation. Some day I'll get Deed, but until then I think you're right about making the cut list. Less

sorceries the better for a control deck!

• Thassa, God of the Sea, the free scry is nice indeed, allowing me to dig for those cards I need

and recon before drawing and dredging. There's no real intention on making her a creature, but

rather to let Taz apply cmdr damage as an alternate (but slow and flimsy) win-con... so really just

scry value that's super hard to remove.

• Exclude, like Essence Scatter once was in, is to serve a single purpose to counter

commander casts, if nothing else. The cantrip is helpful as any draw is for control decks. Many other

couterspells, which I'll talk about shortly, require double-, which is a bit more taxing on the tri-

color mana base.

• Relic Crush is a fairly high cost, but provides value as a 2-for-1 in almost every game of a

format loaded with a/e. Naturalize is great being cheaper, but I would feel bad getting over-

victimized by a/e. It's a card that has been cut before, and may get the axe again for something

like Unravel the Aether, or Nature's Claim if I ever find one.

MAYBEBOARD:

• Dismiss and Rewind have been in and out of this deck more than any other card. Rewind

is practically free, like you said, so despite the cantrip, Dismiss seems less valuable in

comparison. Dissolve, like these, requires that double-, and for that I might even rather

have Dissipate instead.

• With all the talk about high costs, I'm fairly apprehensive about dropping a turn to cast

Extinguish All Hope, especially against blue decks, whether Talrand, Sky Summoner or even

Narset, Enlightened Master. A couple of the top competitive EDH players at my LGS run mono-

blue solitaire decks with dozens of counterspells, so I've gotta somehow compete with those types

of games.

• I love Golgari Charm, always have, always will. I run it in almost every G/B build I own, I've just

been looking for the right spot here. It's ready and high on the wait list!

• I've always loved Kiora, she's my second fav. walker of all time behind Lily. That said, kiora the

crashing wave seems more valuable in that she can protect herself. kiora master of the

depths is good for her -2 as a 4-drop Grisly Salvage, but then she's helpless.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS:

• With so few creatures, the three beasts from Beast Within seem awfully scary at potentially 9

damage per swing. There's no question about the exciting power of the destruction, but the

backlash keeps me apprehensive. I'd have to play around with it some.

• I might have to pick up Control Magic from my LGS, though they don't have Mind Control.

Would you use it (a) in lieu of. or (b) in addition to, something like Clone?

• Rain of Thorns seems the same as Bramblecrush. Like Desert Twister, it's just a high-cost

utility destroy. I'm weary of high-cost 1-for-1 spells since I prefer to get more value off an entire turn.

• Chromatic Lantern, Strip Mine, Sylvan Library, Palinchron, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed,

Vampiric Tutor/Demonic Tutor, Tooth and Nail, are definitely top picks if I can ever loosen

my budget constraints.

• I like Mind Twist, will have to pick that up in place of Hymn to Tourach.

• Mental Misstep seems good, but the late game reach makes it feel inconsistent, and seems

too easy a pick for opponents in a Taz activation. Daze seems okay as a 2-drop counter, but

the lowly also makes it feel worse the longer the game lasts.

............Wow! Talk about long, right? Nailed it.

With that, I need a break, so I'll look at your deck a bit later after some family time.

TheHelvault, I'm not sure about Seer's Lantern. I haven't tried it, but having to dump loads of mana into scrying seems counterproductive to just playing Thassa, God of the Sea. Mana rocks certainly have importance, but when possible I'd prefer colored mana. I like it, but I don't know if it's good, have you played with it in EDH control yet? What's your experience?

I'll look into acquiring those combo cards since my LGS doesn't have the Desert or the dude. The Expedition Map is also going on a wishlist, but not the same budget-ignoring list as the Tutors. I don't know if I'll EVER acquire the tutors.

Deckologist, I understand the downside of Taz. If he weren't so cheap to play and fun in general I probably wouldn't play him b/c, like you said, his ability is expensive and nets you the worst card in your yard. Additionally, he's vulnerable and has no protection or elusiveness. The delving is nice at keeping him cheap, but it still takes as many turns to re-summon him. That said, all the more reason to make the DECK effective and NOT reliant on him!

There's value in playing mana rocks in EDH, and Ingot's indestructibility has its place. I do love Kiora's Follower, always have, and he's always been on a short list waiting for a spot. I think I'll try your suggestion!

---===---

To all, I've added Training Grounds to the deck to cheapen Taz's ability and speed up my game being able to use it repetitively per turn. That said, I'm in the research market for any other creatures with activated abilities that could find a place here... like Duskmantle Seer (teaming up with Mindcrank for a win-con). Any ideas?

Derp, I meant Duskmantle Guildmage above, not the Seer.

thewyzman I run a Glissa, the Traitor deck that used to have Darksteel Ingot, but I dropped it for Seer's Lantern because I needed the scry.

I used to run an Oloro, Ageless Ascetic control edh, and the scry helped out a lot.

for scry 1 is really useful in a commander deck, I find.

Hope this isn't too intimidating, but I just added a bunch of cards to the Maybeboard stack of cards for consideration:

• Whelming Wave
• Nullify
• Stymied Hopes
• Rakshasa's Disdain
• Marang River Prowler
• Drelnoch
• Death Rattle
• Dream Twist
• Fog Bank
• Thassa, God of the Sea
• Exclude
• Darksteel Ingot
• Gaze of Granite
• Vivid Marsh
• AEtherize
• Breaching Hippocamp
• Ratchet Bomb
• Night's Whisper
• Sire of Stagnation
• Reality Shift
• Guard Gomazoa
• True-Name Nemesis
• Frontline Sage
• Stratus Walk
• Mental Discipline
• Necropolis Fiend
• Phyrexian Arena
• Grave Titan
• Horizon Chimera
• Harrow
• Propaganda
• Fact or Fiction
• Villainous Wealth
• Seer's Lantern
• Urban Evolution
• Oona's Grace
• Annul
• Painful Truths
• Hymn to Tourach
• Appetite for Brains
• Opt
• Tainted Remedy
• Seedborn Muse
• Natural State

Natural State, Harrow, Propaganda, and Sire of Stagnation seem really helpful?

(I updated a few cards in the main deck list, so apologies if any repeats, I'll update it later tonight with the couple substitutions I made last night)

TheHelvault, Deckologist, nayrash5: Do/would any of you run the Blighted lands from BFZ? (Blighted Woodland, Blighted Fen, Blighted Cataract). It's land, it's expendable (which helps delving), and it has a one-shot ability such as fetch, draw, or kill.

Currently, I've never used Alchemist's Refuge's ability. Ever. So there's the cut if I need. I'm thinking the Cataract since drawing cards is always relevant. I don't have a lot of basic lands, and there may be token decks like Talrand and Prossh kicking around, so the sac ab might be dead.

Personally, I've kicked around the idea of Blighted Cataract in my Tasigur deck. Six mana and a land sac seems a bit steep for two cards to me.

It hardly seems worth it to run blighted.