Baneslayer3712 says... #2
I plan on doing something similar but since I only just found out about the General I dont yet have a list.
I would normally say that 40 lands is a few too many, but your not running a bunch of ramp so I think your ratio is fine.
For the amount of tapped lands your running Id recommend an Amulet of Vigor
Also since this is tribal I'd recommend Coat of Arms, as well as Primal Vigor for tokens and those old Zendikar ally's that gain counters
January 8, 2016 11:43 a.m.
Great suggestions Monsmtg and Baneslayer3712 but if you read my description you'll see that I really need to know which cards to take out for those.
I did have Mana Confluence in but decided to remove it. I have copies that I just never used when they were Standard legal.
January 8, 2016 12:07 p.m.
the.beanpole says... #5
I'd add Dauntless Escort, Ready / Willing, Unified Front, Adaptive Automaton, Commander's Authority, Patriarch's Bidding, Ghostway, Coat of Arms, Phyrexian Metamorph, Talus Paladin, and Vigor.
I would try to stay away from counterspells in general. Creature based decks like to tap out (unless they are running Prophet of Kruphix), so I'd try to find other, more proactive ways to beat sweepers like many of my suggestions above .
I'd cut Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, Umara Raptor, Mind Stone, Sol Ring, Concerted Effort, Coralhelm Guide, Counterspell, Dissipate, Dissolve, Forbid, and Scatter to the Winds.
Keep in mind too that cards like Crib Swap, Mirror Entity, and Nameless Inversion are Allies as well, and can be fetched with Tazri.
January 8, 2016 1:18 p.m.
the.beanpole says... #6
Sorry, Cathars' Crusade, not Commander's Authority.
January 8, 2016 1:31 p.m.
Argeaux,
Welcome to Commander!
I'll try to circle back later with a deeper look, but here are some quick thoughts:
- +1 on Baneslayer3712's comment about Amulet of Vigor ... it's a great way to accelerate inexpensive lands. Depending on how important that is in your group, it might even be work an Artifact tutor.
- I'm not a big fan though of Coat of Arms nor Primal Vigor. There's a TON of tribal in EDH (well, in my group anyway) and I don't like the cards' group hug aspects.
- In your thread you wondered about having too many counterspells. Board wipes will probably be your biggest challenge, and counterspells are good protection. I'd probably start high and work down, rather than the other way around :-)
- I'm a little worried your creatures will get jammed up on the ground if Tazri's not available to tutor your unblockable/trample/flying anthems. I'm not sure the most efficient way to address that issue ... add some Artifact or Enchantment-based anthems (or maybe some Gods)? Add some more tutors? Add some more protection for Tazri? I just don't know ... though it might be worthwhile to reach out to some Captain Sisay deck-builders and see how they approach it.
- On what to cut, I'd probably drop some of the +1/+1 counter Allys. On a quick look, I don't think you have enough synergy there to make it worthwhile, considering they fall off on every boardwipe. That will also free you up for some other decisions. E.g., without the +1/+1s, do you have enough pump left? If not, you can probably drop the trample-granters. Or the other way around ... if you decide to keep the +1/+1s, you'll definitely want the trample, but you may be able to drop the deadtouch and maybe some of the unblockables. Also, I think I'd either go all-in on ETB effects (making room for some flicker cards) or take a hard look at every ETB Ally next.
- Whichever way you go, you'll probably want to have plenty of redundancy. Either duplicate effects, or more recursion, or both.
Sorry this is just broad sweeps rather than solid recommendations :-(
January 8, 2016 2:13 p.m. Edited.
clayperce that was actually very helpful, getting me to lock down a strategy and suggesting Gods. It was something I had been starting to do, but gave me a bit more focus.
I've decided to put most of my weight behind good old Trample. That way I can use the Minotaur. I love Minotaurs.
It also makes sense if I'm trying to make big Creatures, who will most likely not have Flying, although there is a little bit of that left in.
I've got other pieces of Trample going on, including Nylea, God of the Hunt.
I'm taking suggestions from the.beanpole on board wipe, and am now avoiding Counter spells in favour of spells that can help me recover from wipe.
The suggestions have been very helpful so far, and I already feel that this deck is playing better.
January 8, 2016 3:17 p.m.
masterosok says... #9
Mana Echoes and Cryptic Gateway are pretty decent cards for tribal decks.
Creeping Renaissance and/or Praetor's Counsel are other ways to recover from board wipes.
January 8, 2016 4:49 p.m.
masterosok says... #10
Oh and Distant Melody is a good draw spell for tribal.
January 8, 2016 4:57 p.m.
All good suggestions, masterosok.
Any ideas on what I could remove to squeeze those cards in?
January 8, 2016 5:05 p.m.
masterosok says... #12
I'd probably cut Shared Triumph first.... If you want to keep your pump spells then I would trade that for Shared Animosity cause I don't think the extra 1 toughness matters much vs. the power you will get if you have more than two allys in play.
Rally the Ancestors is another one that I'd probably cut as well. Its great if you know you can win the same turn and you have something that give all your creatures haste or just need some chump blockers... I know the ETBS are nice but it will be a dead card in your hand most of the time. Since is exiles the creatures at your next upkeep it causes some of your other recursion spells to lose some of their value if you were to cast it first.
Join the Ranks two 1/1s for 4 mana isn't the best value though I know you have a lot of pump in the deck.. how many times would you really hold 4 mana up to cast it on someone less turn for chumps or to sneak two in on someone's endstep and for a turn 4 play I'd say any other 4 cmc card or combinations of cards that cost 4 you have would likely be a better play.
You could probably cut a land too
January 8, 2016 5:59 p.m.
Great 'put masterosok, I totally forgot about Mana Echoes!
Argeaux,
Have you played Mana Echoes in tribal? If so, sorry for the spam. But in case not, here are some thoughts: This card is buh-roken in a token deck (e.g., at one point I had 140 colorless to sink the other evening), and ends up being a serious build-around. Even in tribal I suspect it can get pretty crazy, especially as triggers whenever your opponents' creatures ETB too. So as minimum your Turntimber Ranger, Retreat, and Gideon go up in value. And with a bit of work you could probably open up some additional wincon options ... though the trade off is of course you'd probably want to add tutors and maybe some protection ... and a bunch of X-spells ... and pull the Grovetender Druids off your maybeboard ... and maybe add an Avenger of Zendikar and on and on and on!
Blurg. I mean I love deck building in Commander, but sometimes it would be REALLY nice to have fewer good options! :-)
January 8, 2016 6:23 p.m. Edited.
Argeaux,
I forgot to mention: Vigilance is nice in any format, but it's GREAT in EDH, because you have to make it thru multiple combat phases. If you trimmed any Allys with a Vigilance anthem, you may want to take another look. Also: Reconnaissance. But ignore the reminder text ... it's best activated during End of Combat step, after combat damage has already been assigned.
January 8, 2016 7:59 p.m. Edited.
I have already added Mana Echoes as soon as it was suggested. I already have quite a few protection cards but they are only for Creatures. Not sure if that's what you meant.
I'm a bit confused as to why you think it would be amazing with Avenger of Zendikar.
Yeah, I know Rally the Ancestors is a bit situational. I'll take it out for now. it does amazing work with either Kalastria Healer or Zulaport Cutthroat in the Graveyard, but I think I'm going to remove them any.
masterosok you're missing a VERY important thing about Join the Ranks. It can be used to trigger Ally abilities on an Opponent's turn. That can be very significant in this kind of deck. I would never give that opportunity up.
I do feel as though this is starting to turn very much from an Allies deck into just a tribal deck with an Allies theme, but that might just be because I don't know much about EDH.
January 9, 2016 9:03 a.m.
Oh and don't worry, I didn't take any Vigilance out. I've shoved in Heliod, God of the Sun for some extra, and he will probably come online as I have quite a lot of devotion.
January 9, 2016 9:11 a.m.
With all the changes to this deck it is now playing much worse.
With so many Creatures that aren't Allies I now have MUCH less chance to get Rally on most turns, which is what I was getting before.
I'm going to move some of the current Creatures and gods to the "Sideboard" (where I'm keeping stuff that might be useful) and see if that fixes things.
January 9, 2016 10:56 a.m.
OK I've put some Allies back in and added Splinter Twin, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, and Clone to the mix.
It seems to be working a bit better, although I think I'd prefer another Creature that copies as opposed to Splinter Twin.
January 9, 2016 12:15 p.m.
The only thing is that in a five colour deck I have to worry more about in casting cost, rather than just .
I might playtest with Clever Impersonator to see whether it works.
January 9, 2016 1:32 p.m.
slagaflaga says... #23
if you feel uncomfortable running non allies, run Conspiracy you will be able to tutor all your creatures out using general's ability.
Call to the Kindred + Descendants' Path are fun ways to get free allies on the field.
Riku of Two Reflections is great with tribal decks that focus on ETB effects.
January 9, 2016 5:13 p.m.
Grantley91 says... #24
I don't know if anyone has suggested it yet but there has been a new Join the Ranks spoiled that gives you two 2/2s instead of the 1/1s. Can't remember what it's called right now but it's worth looking into.
January 9, 2016 7:29 p.m.
Argeaux,
My comment on Avenger was more about how a single card (Mana Echoes, in this case) can sprial a deck off into some totally unexpected direction than a real recommendation ... sorry about making it sound otherwise!
It sounds like your deck is finding its balance; very cool!
Monsmtg says... #1
Coat of Arms, Shared Animosity, Cloudshift, Nephalia Smuggler, City of Brass, Mana Confluence
January 8, 2016 11:36 a.m.