"Key thing to keep in mind is per rulings, if you have Mine out and Puzzlebox, Mine kicks FIRST, then Puzzlebox."
actually, they trigger simultaneously, but being that you are in control of them, you determine the order they are placed on the stack. SO, you place Teferi's Puzzle Box on the stack FIRST. THEN, Howling Mine goes on the stack. (remember, last in, first out) Howling Mine resolves first, letting you draw a card. Then Teferi's Puzzle Box resolves, tucking all cards away and drawing that many. If you let Howling Mine on the stack first ( "kicks FIRST" ), then you don't get the extra draw.
Doing it in the order I mentioned allows you to draw one more ( one extra ping from Psychosis Crawler ) and them to draw one more ( one extra ping from Underworld Dreams )
Make sense?
January 9, 2014 3:59 a.m.
I am well aware of how the stack works... so as I said... after the stack resolves Howling Mine KICKS first and Puzzle Box KICKS after. I never said anything about how to place them on the stack but if you want to get technical about it...
You have to take your normal draw for the turn per rulings on both cards so the next natural action would be to draw from Howling Mine then the rotation from Puzzle Box.
But yes you are right both rulings on both cards state the ability is placed on the stack after you draw for the turn. I was trying to make it easy for everyone to understand but thanks I suppose for breaking it down for those that care how the stack resolves when one could easily state the correct order.
I don't know how I could have said it better for you. One KICKS one HAPPENS one TRIGGERS.... Either way how you say it it all occurs the way I originally stated.
January 9, 2014 4:16 a.m.
KICKS is very misleading. it could be KICKING onto the stack "placed on stack" or KICKING off of it "resolving"
you sir, are misleading
January 9, 2014 5:42 a.m.
nerdydolly says... #5
Are you seriously arguing with Mythril just because of the word "kick"? Ffs.
Since I've seen this deck perform 2876538765873648 times, the way he describes it is very accurate.
January 9, 2014 4:10 p.m.
Go be butt hurt on someone else's deck kid. Throwing a pissy fit because I didn't use the words you like and explain the deck so even a 5 year old can win with it. Not everyone is at that stage to understand the stack and how it resoles based off of the chain or even how state based actions affect this combo. So congrats. You win the Internet.
January 9, 2014 5:53 p.m.
wow you two are angry. the only purpose of me explaining it was because you original post did not explain that, in short, they should draw a card FIRST, then tuck and draw from the box. Not everyone will realize this and its a huge advantage if playing with your deck. I assumed that's what you meant but only because I understand the stack. Unfortunately, not many who play the game, even old timers, know about the stack. It wasn't a debate nor argument, simply trying to help others understand if they didn't. Sorry to upset you both, ciao.
January 10, 2014 4:23 a.m.
I think my explanation of how the deck works does fine. All you are doing is making a fairly simple concept more complicated in my eyes. I'm sorry that you feel my use of the word kick was insufficient to explain the mechanics and I appreciate that you are able to put into text how the stack works in a combo deck that works when several items enter the stack at the same moment. Yet again I feel that stating that can confuse some intermediate or novice players and shy them away from reading the full description or wanting to understand the deck.
Generally the simpler things are explained the more people will want to comprehend the concept. Then if someone wants to know why it should be done that way, or how it works, it can be explained.
January 11, 2014 3:32 a.m.
@emask Thanks for the +1! This is a great deck to pilot and is tons of fun when everyone finally realizes what is happening.
February 1, 2014 5:25 a.m.
Usually yes... Not always though. I tend to play this in multi games so I can't play politically as this deck hits everyone and I don't attack with my creatures. Usually by the time they realize whats happening they know they have to take me out and I say nonchalantly "If you kill me, [Insert player name here] will have an advantage of not taking damage from [Insert draw pain here] and will obviously win the game...."
February 1, 2014 5:32 a.m.
Aren't multi player games awesome? They can be really messed up, but I love them for that. Anyone has a chance really with the whole political side of things as you put it!
February 1, 2014 7:32 p.m.
since this deck requires specific colored land drops between turn 1-4, reliquary tower can really screw me so I took it out. Nothing worse than not being able to get my third black mana out and stick with req tower.
February 5, 2014 5:03 a.m.
Gemstone Mine might allow you to use the Tower if you can play that way.
February 5, 2014 5:50 p.m.
that... doesnt change the fact that it doesn't help if I get the damn Tower in my hand and don't have the reliable land I need when I need it. Gemstone Mine is good and what not but I would rather run shock lands than that really. Really I'm ok with my mana right now and you know how often I need unlimited hand size? Maybe once in 50 games. I can drop hand like a boss.
February 6, 2014 12:01 a.m.
If you can find a better card than DeeDee to keep my ass protected while I get my combo off, or even accelerate the progress please let me know. Until the day comes that something better than a 4 drop 6/6 beast come out idk what I'm going to use. Fate Unraveler is something I thought about but... Idk.
February 10, 2014 8:59 a.m.
True but the reason I say that is obviously for the same price as DeeDee I can have an extra Underworld Dreams that doesn't require 3B which can be hard to achieve.
February 10, 2014 12:09 p.m.
PriestessKikyo1 says... #21
Draw and Mill definitely aren't my playstyle, but this deck just looks absolutely vicious! +1
March 1, 2014 1:52 a.m.
This can be a very vicious deck if it goes off right. If the opponents don't know whats happening it starts out as "YAY I DRAW ALL THE CARDS'' and quickly turns into "WTF KILL IT WITH FIRE"
March 1, 2014 1:57 a.m.
I like this alot, What about Font of Mythos ?You could sub out the Spellbook for a couple Reliquary Tower and then increase your draw rate?
April 10, 2014 11:35 p.m.
AH, Just seen the comment about reliquary tower, I get you on that.
April 10, 2014 11:37 p.m.
What about using Phylactery Lich instead of the Demon?
Might work with all the artifact's your running.
Also, +1
nerdydolly says... #1
How about Prosperity ?
January 6, 2014 7:41 p.m.