hassankachal says... #2
I completely respect that, but I think that when you said that they will get blockers out, remember that Rakdos has flyina and trample, so that could do good things. Plus the hammer could give him haste...
April 8, 2014 7:01 p.m.
Arorsthrar says... #3
Hammer of Purphoros isn't main boarded, and main boarding it won't be worth it just for Rakdos, Lord of Riots . The reason the Hammer is in the 75 is because it generates additional creatures against control match ups.
With respect to the blockers: although Rakdos, Lord of Riots can get damage through quite effectively, spending a turn casting a creature that provides no immediate haste damage or a burn spell causes my other creatures to be easily blocked. Here's a very common scenario that occurred while I was play testing Rakdos, Lord of Riots :
Turn 1: Mountain -Rakdos Cackler .
-Opp: Either a tapped land, a MUD one drop, or Elvish Mystic ---> Basically, the only one drops in the game (besides in an RDW mirror) are usually Thoughtseize or investment to either devotion or mana, meaning most players won't block with them willingly.
Us: 1 attacker Opp: 0 blockers
Turn 2: Mountain -Rakdos Shred-Freak . Swing for 4. Most opponents can't block here.
-Opponent: Turn 2 is when some of the decks in the format can establish a strong blocker. The two biggest currently are Frostburn Weird and Sylvan Caryatid . Pack Rat is a common turn 2 play as well, but usually not used as a blocker until a rat armada has been built up. Also, remember that with the prevalence of scry lands, a strong number of opponents will have only one mana open.
Us: 2 attackers; Opp; 1 blocker
Turn 3: Swamp -Minotaur Skullcleaver . We still have 2 more attackers than available blockers! We can push through quite a few damage, and Sylvan Caryatid is unable to claim any of our attackers, though Frostburn Weird may.
-Opp: This when most of the decks in the format can get a stronger blocker out there, especially one that they're willing to block with. At this point, Nightveil Specter , Lifebane Zombie , and Polukranos, World Eater become solid walls.
Us: 3 attackers (in a best-case scenario; usually we've traded something by now); Opp- 2 blockers; one of which is problematic.
Turn 4: Either A) We missed the land drop (no big deal for this deck), or we have 3 mountain, and 1 swamp. Maybe they killed one of our attackers and let there two defenders wall all of our attacks. If we can't play another hasty attacker, the damage will stop going through. If damage stops going through, we can't cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots . If we can't cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots , then we lose board state. If we lose in board state, we lost the game. If we lose the game, we lose the round. If we lose the round we're terrible at magic. If we're terrible at magic, we'll stop playing. If we stop playing, we won't have anything to spend money on. If we don't have anything to spend money on, we'll buy to much Coke. If we buy too much coke, we become diabetic. When we become diabetic, we have to go to the doctors office a lot. If we have to go to the doctor's office a lot, we end of using a lot of gas. If we use a lot of gas, we contribute to global warming. If we contribute to global warming, the ice caps melt. If the ice caps melt, then the ocean level rises. If the ocean level rises, then the Statue of Liberty gets submerged underwater. Don't submerge the Statue of Liberty in water. Don't play Rakdos, Lord of Riots :)
I actually do like the card, I just don't think this is the right home for it, where we have to push through all available damage. I'd have to throw in more lands, which could cause flooding, and could mess with this decks consistency. Thanks for the comments though!
April 8, 2014 9:06 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #4
And for the record, giving Rakdos haste is irrelevant because it's either turn 5 or 6 and you're able to cast a burn spell that would probably have better been used on a blocker or it's turn 4 and you just used your attack step making it so he could enter. Then haste doesn't matter because you have no more attack steps.
April 8, 2014 9:50 p.m.
Interesting analysis of Rakdos which actually makes me wonder if it is ever viable in Standard for any shell.....very good.
LOVE the card, flavor-wise, and have seen it do impressive work in EDH....but just...probably not good in ANY Standard shell...
April 9, 2014 7:06 p.m.
hassankachal says... #6
I have a foil Rakdos and I absolutely LOVE your description of the harms it can do to earth. You are my new favourite TappedOut-er!
April 9, 2014 9:39 p.m.
TheHiketeia says... #7
I play tested this deck against a Boros Aggro running Brimaz and another Rakdos aggro deck - this thing is incredibly potent for it's price. Definitely +1
I'll be interested in pumping it up with some shocklands and switching out Tormented Hero for Gnarled Scarhide once Journey into Nyx releases.
April 10, 2014 12:23 p.m.
Arorsthrar says... #8
Thanks!
I'm torn on whether or not I'll switch Tormented Hero for Gnarled Scarhide . I like the heroic of Tormented Hero , but the bestow of Gnarled Scarhide .
April 10, 2014 7:16 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #9
Keep Tormented Hero . And run both. The only thing better than 8 2 power one drops is 12 2 power 1 drops.
April 10, 2014 7:21 p.m.
Hey, usohatchi. With 4 Tormented Hero in play and 4 Mogis's Marauder played in a row, you would gain exactly 16 life if you're playing one-on-one. How did you gain the remaining 4+ life?
April 10, 2014 10:13 p.m.
Arorsthrar says... #11
To clear up the Tormented Hero heroic issue:
Heroic triggers upon CAST. This means that if something says "enter the battlefield" it will not trigger heroic.
Mogis's Marauder cannot trigger Tormented Hero 's heroic ability.
April 10, 2014 10:41 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #12
Go up to 12 one drops. Or cut Rakdos Cackler . Tormented Hero 's heroic makes him better than cackler. And the one extra toughness that cackler has is irrelevant in this meta. The only upside of Cackler over Scarhide is that he doesn't trade with Elvish Mystic , which wouldn't happen anyways.
April 10, 2014 10:47 p.m.
ImmortalWonton says... #13
Beautiful, Beautiful, Beautiful deck. +1 from me. Great way to get a absolute beater, with a cost-effective approach.
Please check out Immortal King's Death Dealers, Thanks.
April 10, 2014 10:53 p.m.
RavePossum says... #14
@InconspicuousPotato: Do you think dropping the hybrid R/B mana for the B mana cost would bring about a loss of consistency? That's my concern about dropping Cackler for Scarhide.
April 10, 2014 11:27 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #15
Hmm... That could be a problem. But i think you should test it. Just to see if the power of bestow is worth it. If not, cut something else and have 11-12 one drops.
April 10, 2014 11:42 p.m.
Since Rakdos, Lord of Riots doesn't have haste, it could see effective play on an early second main phase IF you have 3 mana in your opening hand. This deck hits quickly. If you reach turn 4, played a land and at least one creature every turn including one land during turn 4's first main phase, and an enchantment on turn 3 (along with a creature), then you will have one card in hand. (This is an AMAZING game setup. Without a creature on turn 1 and with only one spell played on turn 3 [just a creature or an enchantment], then you'll still only have 3 cards in hand.) Since only 25% of the cards in this deck can deal damage when they're cast (3 creatures with haste and 2 burn spells), Rakdos, Lord of Riots might be on the list of best possible 4 drop on the second main phase of turn 4. This might make it sound amazing, but consider a Mogis's Marauder and any other 1 drop, Shock included. Desecration Demon is great, but the Lord of Riots has trample. That means your opponent will probably loss a creature AND health from this one card on the same turn.
As a side boarded option for the FNM where you know a lot of people are playing faster control decks, this is definitely a viable side board. Otherwise, it's a bit slow.
April 11, 2014 2:30 a.m.
cowboy_hippie says... #17
Gnarled Scarhide vs Tormented Hero (The following are best case scenarios to play both cards...)
Turn 1 drop... these guys are equal. Both come out, neither can attack or block.
Turn 2 Edge to Tormented Hero ... Gnarled Scarhide can swing for 2 with possible buff of Deviant Glee to swing for 4. Tormented Hero can swing for 2 with possible buff Deviant glee to swing for 4 with Deviant Glee to add extra 1 damage plus 1 life to me... edge to Tormented Hero . Any other drops are a wash.
Turn 3... edge Tormented Hero . If I drop them now, neither can block or attack. If I drop a Mogis's Marauder , neither benefit. If I buff, edge Tormented Hero . Any other drops are a wash.
Turn 4... edge Gnarled Scarhide . If I drop a Mogis's Marauder and a Gnarled Scarhide , both gain haste and intimidate, and Tormented Hero is excluded from the Morgis's ability because he is tapped. But, if I buff... advantage goes to a Tormented Hero dropped on an earlier turn... This is getting messy from here... so I give up!
Basically...
Buff... advantage Tormented Hero
Drop with Mogis's Marauder ... Advantage Gnarled Scarhide .
Frankly, they are pretty dead even. What's more important? Tormented Hero 's heroic ability or Gnarled Scarhide not entering tapped? Gnarled Scarhide works better with Mogis's Marauder , but if I buff Tormented Hero is better. Totally wish I could combine these two!
Gnarled Scarhide 's bestow ability? Synergizes well with only Tormented Hero , but too slow for this deck.
I call it a wash... My final judgment... If you bring in the Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch or some other OP card go with Gnarled Scarhide . If you keep the Deviant Glee go for Tormented Hero .
April 11, 2014 9:05 p.m.
Why not both, 2x Tormented Hero and 2x Gnarled Scarhide ??
Since they are even I don't see a problem to put two of each, both with their advantages.
And in the best can I have have turn 1 Tormented Hero and a turn 4 Gnarled Scarhide +Mogis's Marauder using both advantages and if happens the opposite still good enough.
And even better, you can bestow Gnarled Scarhide on the Tormented Hero .
We don't have to exclude one of them, they just wanna be friends.
April 11, 2014 10:11 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #19
Maybe -2 Deviant Glee , -2 Shock for +4 Gnarled Scarhide or -1 cackler -2 deviant glee for +3 Gnarled Scarhide ?
April 11, 2014 11:57 p.m.
RavePossum says... #20
Personally, I think Gnarled Scarhide would be a good replacement for Tormented Hero because late game, drawing a Hero is a whole lot less useful than drawing a Scarhide. I think that the extra utility of having a late-game buff spell in addition to having an early game creature is a lot more relevant than the pings of 1 damage from the Hero, which I never seem to get many of in any given game.
April 12, 2014 2:47 p.m.
One more thing to consider is that you can bestow Gnarled Scarhide on your opponents creature and they can't block.
April 12, 2014 3:34 p.m.
@joekeny Lightning Talons isn't horrible, but I think Madcap Skills pretty much covers the need in a more effective and, key point, efficient way.
April 14, 2014 11:52 a.m.
To expand on what I was saying, if they have a Desecration Demon as the only creature on the board, and they have used remove so that the only creature I have left is a Tormented Hero , (use this example because it really did happen when I tested out this deck), then I would much rather have Madcap Skills than Lightning Talons . Their demon isn't going to be blocking.
BTW, @Arorsthrar I tested this deck at FNM with only manabase mods to it:
8x Mountain 4x Temple of Malice 4x Blood Crypt 6x Swamp
Round 1 vs Selesnya Aggro2-0 Both games were actually close because I never blocked once, I just was able to race him better. Finished game one with 4 life, finished game 2 with 2 life. Was really sweating it.
Round 2 vs U/W Control1-2 First game I was able to aggro him down before he could get card draw or life gain to stabilize. This game took FOREVER though as he used a ton of removal and counters. The next two games ended with him being able to hold me off long enough to drop Elspeth, Sun's Champion and me not being able to handle her and the token army.
Round 3 vs Golgari reanimate??2-1 This was an odd build that made good use of Deathrite Shaman . He was using Whip of Erebos as well to recur creatures for massive lifegains. The first game was a BLOW OUT. I had him down to 4 life, he resolved a whip and then ran over me to finish the game with 36 life. I did an entire 15-card SB swap and took out 4x Tormented, 4x Mogis Marauder, and 3x Shred Freak. I thought it was risky, but the removal paid off as he was not able to swing with anything for the next two games. Still close matches, IMO.
Round 4 vs RDW2-0 Game 1 he kept a 1 land hand that ultimately meant his downfall. He got 2 lands on turn 3, and never got a third. Game 2 he kept a 3 land hand and that was all he ever got. Must have been running very few lands. He resolved a Boros Reckoner but it didn't matter much with Madcap Skills . I got lucky enough to draw 2x and play them on my only 2 creatures that managed to survive his burn package.
Sorry for the long write-up, but I am very happy for those results, considering the deck was so cheap and I already had the lands that I added to it, along with 90% of the other cards. How do you handle the U/W or Esper Control matches?? Any advice?
Arorsthrar says... #1
Potato' comment sums up why I have avoided including four-drops. If for some reason I do decide to include a four drop, Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch is the first on my list.
More reasons I have eschewed Rakdos, Lord of Riots :
-No haste: The math doesn't support a four-drop without haste. If my opponent can muster one blocker a turn (excluding Turn 1), then they can catch up on blockers if my turn 4 play isn't another attacking creature.
-Restrictions: As a budget deck, we have problems with the mana base already. The RRBB cost is extremely difficult to hit considering that. Also, if we are behind on board state, then he can't be cast.
April 8, 2014 6:57 p.m.