Why was utter end taken out?

Um, rjphilla in response to:

"It looses to EVERY single other flyer in competitive magic. All of them. Waste. Of. Time. How many pro games has it won? Zero. As soon as you attack, it's stoked. Or blocked by stormbreath. And stormbreath has protection from it. You want mine? Selling them.like hot cakes."

Have you not seen this? http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9550&f=ST

That is the reason behind the price spike. Any deck running 4x Stormbreath Dragon without discard loses to control because he's just so easy to deal with. I mean as long as we have Hero's Downfall, Silumgar's Scorn, Murderous Cut, Ultimate Price, Nullify, Dissipate, Dissolve, Disdainful Stroke and even Cancel stormbreath just does not matter to control. So even if we played all white dragons the chances are we have plenty of other answers and if the field is empty and we tap out to play Ojuai, we don't care if the opponent taps out for Stormbreath and swings for 4 with haste because our dragon deals more damage and finds a kill spell or counter.

The pro white was a big deal when Banishing Light was an auto include for nearly every white deck and now it serves to keep everybody from mixing Bile Blight + Valorous Stance but that's about it.

Also any deck running 4x Stormbreath Dragon is very susceptible to Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. I drop her T3 all day against or dragons. Stole some Crater's Claws, Stormbreath Dragon or Thunderbreak Regent? Sweet those can't kill me now.

X Control decks don't need to worry about stormbreath because their man composition is great against it even if they are running 2-3 white dragons. They need to worry about Thoughtseize, Duress and Kolaghan's Command as well as mono .

kengiczar thanks. I know what Black spot removal is.

jamesfiek that's cool. I'm not really selling mine for $18. Got high trade value this FNM (playset of Watery Graves for one)I was really getting on these guys cause they played into it. Just being devil's advocate!

But honestly, now I want to make it my mission to destroy UBW control. And Ojutai for that matter.

The worst match-up for me has been either that sided in 3x Duress and 2x Kolaghan's Command as well as a few Flamewake Phoenix or the time a guy sided in his 3rd Thoughtseize, his 3 Duress and then used a train of Den Protector to keep hitting me with just 1 actual copy of Duress 3 times.

I strongly advise you to run discard against control as it rips up everything we try to do. Getting the answers out of our hands just means it's safe to play threats, and even if we do play a few answers the Kolaghan's Command gets rid of our last kill spell while getting you back another creature. Just make sure you get rid of our Dig Through Time before we can cast it and you'll destroy us all.

TheHroth Two questions; Do you own this deck? and What creatures should I run in my Sultai Control deck? Currently I run; 2x Sylvan Caryatid, 2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang 1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death 1x Sagu Mauler and 1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier. See my list here; Bonzai! 2nd @ FNM

Should I drop a Mauler to try to pick up another Silumgar? There are a lot of lifegain decks in my meta that can outrace a 3 power, so thats why I split 1 and 1. Sidisi is tutor for creatures, and can be a threat if needed. The only problem with her and Tasigur is they don't have hexproof.

@Prima

Yes, I own this list. I'll take a look at yours.

Cool. What is the best you have ever done? My FNM is around 35-50 people, so top 4 is a big accomplishment. As the name suggests, I got 2nd place, but that was on a night with only about 30 people.

The deck isn't really a shard anymore...

Right you are but I'm a lazy bastard and havnt changed the name yet. I'd rather build Esper, but I just felt like trying this list at FNM last week instead.

im just saying but i feel it would make it better if dragonlord silumgar was in the main-board and there should be 2 of him at most and you could use jace the living guildpact and liliana vess she would help you get what you want and keep the other player discarding but its just my opinion so

Jace? You mean the 4$ planeswalker ? Never saw competitive play, and for a reason.

ya i guess thats true i tend to see him in sultai delve more

I happily played Jace, the Living Guildpact in an old / list, but that was ages back just after KTK's release. Since then, he definitely hasn't been competitive.

true but i do think liliana would help this deck

I like your list but i see you've changed stuff a bit. What made you take out the dragons and replace them with Ashiok? Also update the sideboard because i'm sure you don't need two Ashiok's mainboard and two side :P. @manbro Dragonlord Silumgar is defiantly sideboard, he's way to fragile to be main. You board him in when they board out removal.

4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is gg in the mirror. He is just so good in every match I find that he is worth playing main, and well just wrecks face in the mirror (especially if landed T3 on the play, often avoiding any Silumgar's Scorn shenanigans).

He forces opponents to divert resources and deal with him, or else he will kill them. That buys me time. Seems pretty good.

That makes sense. I'm still going to run the U/B dragon control for a bit and see if it works out for me. I gave you a +1 anyways because i do like your old and new list:) . I'm trying to fit ashiok in my mainboard in u/b dragons. i'm thinking of moving thoughtsieze to side and ashiok to main? Whats your thoughts on that? Do you think thoughtsieze is a must in main?

I don't think it is necessary in the main, but it is really freaking good.

Ya, i agree. I decided to take out my pair of anticipates for 2 Ashiok's. That will leave me with 6 total draw cards. I dunno if it was the right choice but i guess i'll find out at fnm tonight :P. Anyways, keep up the good work! :)

rowanlefey

Thoughtseize is crucial in the control mirror, I wouldn't play ashiok over it but I would try to find spots for the two instead.

Ya, thoughtseize helps me in more cases than not so i just ended up taking out 2 anticipates for Ashiok. it dropped my draw power down to 6 cards but 6 seems plenty. I'll find out soon though.

+1 man! Control is my favorite, and you this deck is wonderful!

I would add some Icefall Regent's and Silumgar's Scorn, for main.I would add Deathbringer Regent for side.

Icefall Regent is okay, but the wincons I already have are just better.

Silumgar's Scorn is just bad without more dragons in the main deck.

Deathbringer Regent is terrible.

I seriously doubt Ashiok is a "he".