I really hate it too. lol

wow cool :) thanks for the info and compliment to the deck. It is very helpful to get info and opinions from someone playing the deck. I will unload some more info/history/playstyle/deckconcepts on you about it then since you like the deck I'll still try to keep it concise though.

And if you liked this deck you might like repeatable protection destroy any permanent..whoa! it has similar designs and ideas but i've stopped working on it sadly as its not that great.lol also check out the experimental version of this deck and that has links to other versions of the deck with different concepts. I've implemented in the past.

yes, sadly it does get wrecked by removal which is why I'm liking Valorous Stance as a removal card that can protect my guys as well.

I think removal is the main concern for this deck counter decks i can get around them by just playing my threats last. but removal kills my guys upon entry and when they draw. i can often save guys by putting gears on them and popping landfall to boost toughness on the opponents turns or just popping serjiri but its not enough.

One of the reasons i was playing the prismatic omens main board was to have an option to win against burn or removal heavy decks if they were removing all my creatures i just scapeshift valakut and win anyways was the idea. and they just wouldn't see it coming and it is really just a 3 card package to have the option to do a non creature based win for the deck.

There is another reason why i like the gears is that they are destroyed less often and are wincon so then all i need is a creature base to put them on. I have had games where the opponent played cards that gave me tokens so i geared the tokens and crushed them with those. those are rare but my point is that gear makes any creature easy wincon and doesn't get removed often.

Actually you just gave me a great idea maybe some man lands would be effective in this deck like Treetop Village maybe in side board. manlands are really great at staying on the board and i can gear them to get the win. any thoughts on that?

yes it does run out of gas a wee bit which is why i had ruin ghost in there and azusa and oboro as they can make continual landfall. it definitely took me a few plays to know when and how much landfall to create against opponents. one thing is to never crack fetches unless you know you need the mana. actually ironically the way to play this deck is to create as little land fall as possible until you need it. That is partially why the land base is designed the way it is with trokair and ghost quarter its an attempt to store it without having a detriment to my mana base in deck or on field. having flags and quarter is like having fetches that can produce mana until you need to crack them.

and oboro ill often have a land in hand ,but don't need the mana and will rather return and play oboro instead to conserve my resources. ALso taking a pass on playing lands when you see them with kruphix late to mid game is also wise unless you really need the landfall or mana that turn. but almost always try to produce land fall in anyway besides taking it out of the deck and doing it randomly

and that is also why i run 26 lands in the proportions I do is it gives me just the right amount of lands in the deck. Any more or less seems to throw the deck disproportionally out of whack towards having too much land or too little.

I've avoided having the running out of gas issue through piloting.but the solutions i've theorized to it in the past have been:

• Mistveil Plains

• Life from the Loam

• Crucible of Worlds

• and actually one of the reasons Primal Command was in there was to recharge the deck in case of a long battle or facing a mill deck which is the other weakness for this. Most other decks this does very well against.

AS for the removing a gear for ob nix yes ob nix is great ,but getting more than one or drawing more than one is not fun where as drawing multiple gears is a truly amazing experience a steppe lynx with 2 or 3 gears is truly terrifying.

i used to run 3 ob nix ,but found that i drew multiple too often which is like i said is not fun you'd rather have no ob nix or obnix and something else than have 2.

also final thing i'll blab about sorry for the long post ,but with kruphix you can psuedo search the deck for cards each shuffle you do can be viewed as a resource where you get to see a new card on top of library every shuffle. This is why i added horizon canopy you can shuffle your library with the landfall untill you see a card you want and then instant speed snatch it up with horizon. so most of the landfall causers in the deck shuffle library when kruphix and horizon canopy are out that gives you an even higher chance of snatching ob or scape shift.

and because of kruphix i've been looking at cards with cycling or draw so i can make use of kruphixe's psuedo deck searching

the cards im considering currently for this draw purpose are

• Abzan Charm could save a creature from a bolt buy getting them past 3 toughness,draw and removal

• Edge of Autumn i quite hate this card except in this deck i could sac a trokair causing landfall and draw a card or use it as ramp and L fall early game. although im not sure how it would interact stack wise with trokair being sacced as payment i might have to shuffle before draw.

• Explore obvious. except i dont like being limited to a basic search i have few basics.

• Hunter's Insight not really liking it in this deck you actually dont want to draw 8 cards. lands in lib is good.

• Life's Legacy also not a huge fan

• Manamorphose actually kinda like this one it reduces the effective size of deck doesn't interupt my game play. The only bad thing would be drawing a couple in starting hand you wouldn't be able to judge handworth as effectively.

• Savage Hunger draw gets past chump blocks

• Scout's Warning draw and could be good playing a rel theri turn after they tap out so i can tap it beginning of mine so i'd have access to steppe

• Sigil of the Nayan Gods not a fan

anyways i'd like your opinion on the draw concept if i should put it in at all and which cards do you think are best in the deck.

or if you habe suggestions for draw cards obviously i want some kind of ability that benefits the deck as well in addition to the drawing.

oops on the explore i'm tired today lol

I'm honestly not even sure you need cards dedicated to drawing. like maybe a couple Phyrexian Arenas could be okay in here, but idk what would be worth taking out. as for the manlands, I love treetop village. it's easily fetchable, can be returned through life from the loam/crucible, and it has trample. and it has to die with an instant, so i'm thinking it should maybe go mainboard. great card. i think crucible could be played mainboard too. for late game, you could cut them off of land with the ghost quarter/crucible lock, which is quite mean, but effective. as for the 6 cards you listed, the only ones i think could work in the deck are the charm and explore. but idk what to take out for those...

WHOA, I am impressed.

Ideas: you need mana sinks. with your land fetching ability I suggest Kessig Wolf Run. also gives tramp so it deals with twerp blocks

Your mana base (including your critters mana making abilities) allows you to access off colors very nicely. I strongly suggest one route: blue for counters like remand for draw and delaying your enemy. this can help with deck thinning and protection for one more turn to finish off your enemy. so in a sense the counters aid your rushing.

or you could use red for Fiery Justice or Lightning Helix for burning twerps/meat shields. OORR you can do x cost burns like Banefire among others, and slaughter the enemy with your mana booms from l-cobra on top of your lands. so you would landfall a load pumping a sphinx and swing a load, and then finish em off with your mana x cost burn (or at least severely!! dammaging them.)

or here's a manna sink: Mind Spring or Sphinx's Revelation that could consume lotus cobra's mana too and refill your hand + life gain.

:P thinkin...

ryanjoha well the idea isnt really just drawing cards the idea is to be able to draw a at instantor sorcery speed so when im shuffling my deck a whole bunch with L-fall and i have kruphix out i can snatch a good card up from the deck that i need at the moment.

And you are starting to convince me on the crucible. in combo with ghost quarter and tree top or horizon canopy it would be really good.

actually if i had horizon kruphix and crucible i could draw two cards a turn without losing life and if i had azusa out there i could do that even more. I'm liking that idea.

nickiru so yes i do like those ideas ,but I think the maximum amount of colors this deck can support consistently is three due to the restriction of needing plains and forests the trokairs and ghostquarter as well as all the other one off lands i have in their. I dont think i can really cram red in there and/or blue. also I'm thinking I'd rather Fling my lynxx at themRite of Consumption it, way more damage than i can x spend as by nature lynx gets 2/2 per fall while lotus only produces 1 mana per fall.

I've tried play testing it, and I don't think you could fit another color in. Especially if he wants to run a tree top or two, all his lands are necessary to help him win. A cool card could be Damnable Pact you could use it to draw a couple, or finish off an opponent

any thoughts on replacing oboro with a bounce land? I'd have less control over a bounce but i could do tricks with it like recycling a serjiri already on field and it'd still work with azusa and bloom. plus i can make the bounce useable colors for my deck.

i don't think bounce lands would get you where you need to go.. they come in tapped, so it's very unbeneficial.. some cards i looked at that might be cool running are Floodbringer, Oboro Breezecaller, Overburden could be sideboard. Soratami Rainshaper, Soratami Savant, Trade Routes. Ruin Ghost is still really good to provide instant speed protection if you have a steppe on your board. if you want to return lands to your hand, Trade Routes and the two soratamis would be your best bet. but that would mean splashing blue.. you do have a lot of fetching power, you could put a copy or two of each Wx shocklands to keep the possibility of sacing it to knight. ill come up with a landbase and an experimental deck and you can have an opinion on it :)

whoa i was like freakin out about Overburden but alas its not modern legal... oh man I was like, HOLY CRAP WHY HAVN"T I SEEN THAT BEFORE, o that's why... sadness...

anyways:

I think bounce lands might be good cause its colors like you said at the least and continues landfall, and refreshes sejiri or whatever else you could think of. i think its like a 'free' spell or a one cost spell since its absorbing a land but you can tap that and float but you know what I mean. color, sejiri synergy, and will allow you deck to have more landfall in general. And, if you use a bounce land to bounce a bounce land, then guess what every turn you have land fall. if you got that critter that allows multiple land casts then you can bouce bounce bounce on an on till you can't no more and landfall like nutz, on top of fetches landfalling.

Trade Routes is interesting. this and Ruin Ghost may be really good. ghost would also be synergestic with any bouncelands cause late-midgame you can have that sucker bounce you bounce for landfall and return the bounce to your hand.

oh yah, you can just have the bounce return itself so in my last paragraph ignore that bla, you don't need two bounces to combo landfall; just one lols which is BETTER!! :D

R-ghost I think will become more valuable if you put some bounces in there. I would think of the bounces as a spell rather than a 'land' per say; like Arena its more of a 0 cost enchantment right? I like it.

'''

PPSHH you can always cram another color in there :D lols I would, but I completely understand you logic. the bounces could afford your off colors on top of your already ability to fetch and produce with Lotus Cobra.

if you go teh route of bounces which will further increase you land count, i strongly recommend mana sinks with X costs like those X burns I suggested 'or' that black one Damnable Pact Ryan suggested, that's got multiple uses. though Banefire could not be countered.

Life from the Loam? just thinking randomly

The thing with bounces, is that they can't be sacced to knight. Which helps him get his lands in the first place. Running the bounces could be great, but might as well just make amulet bloom. If you were to run bounces, I would take the knights out for them. It's really up to you.. But like I said, it'll really reduce the tricks you can pull with steppe and other utility lands

Tectonic Rift? ok laugh but hey, ey? its lando plus un-twerp-blockable. just a RANDOM thought. sideboard against mana greeds like me eh?

I would much rather play Stone Rain personally. I'm not sure what the evasion accomplishes, but I guess it could be useful. Anyways, I made a deck based on this. It's the control counter part of this deck. land fall control

Yeah don't worry guys I'm not going to put bounce lands(plural) in i was just thinking of replacing the one Oboro, Palace in the Clouds with a bounce. The only reason oboro is in there is for consistent landfall every turn and comboing with azusa or bloom. A bounce land can do the same thing and be in the right colors so say if i'm in a situation where im just not getting my colors i could let the bounce land stay on the ground instead of my hand. which would be really nice. oboro taps for blue which nothing in deck is blue.loland the bounce can return a serjiri to hand if i need it.

so it has those two benefits over oboro the only downside is if i leave it on the ground i can't get it back. So i was just wanting an opinion on the very narrow concept of replacing one oboro with one bounce.

as for the guys like these Floodbringer, Oboro Breezecaller. they are nice but they cost mana to get down they cost mana to use their ability. they do return lands but its not that important to do that. and they can't be searched for by knight. Oboro palace or a bounce serves the purpose that id use them for and only take up one spot in my deck but are accessible by 4 other cards. don't cost mana to get down and are a mana source and are lands which are much safer than creatures.

Trade Routes does have some possibility in the deck i like that it can return my lands for one so i can do the oboro azusa combo with any land that comes in utapped and i can draw at instant speed which i was looking for so i like that card.

Ruin Ghostwas in here since the beginning of the deck for a long time. He was very good theoretically for the deck ,but in all actuality. the darn thing kept getting burned or removed by some other means before i could ever tap him to use serjiri. All of the creatures in my deck except knight of the reliquary have static abilities which can be made use of immediately when they hit the ground. so they are able to be used way more often.

and actually reliquary does have a static ability with getting buffed for lands in graves which is why he is ok in here because he can actually survive because he is massive mid or late game. but yeah ruin ghost had his chance was extensively tested and found to be inadequate.:( which i was very saddened to admit to myself ,but it is true.

and ooooooohhhhhhhhhh i shall look at the deck :) thanks for all the ideas advice opinions and help though you guys are awesome.

What?!?! No Siege Rhinos?!?! BLASPHEMY!!! Lol, just kidding. Frankly, I'm sick of that card. I like the deck. +1

lols, SirFowler i know what you mean. Siege Rhino is a good card though, a Lightning Helix with a 4/5 body that tramples for only 2 mana more than helix... its also this deck's colors exactly, hey kylothian maybe mabye not,,...

I like the bounce land idea, its like a 0 cost spell that can give you colors at the worst. I likey

SirFowler lol yeah honestly with all the stuff happening in this deck putting that in would make it much weaker. No win more cards in here.:P

Thanks for the +1 :)

taking out arena and adding crucible for testing.

What about Mystifying Maze? It's a great control land. It's no Maze of Ith, but at least it's Modern legal.

I would say no it doesn't offer any inherently beneficial synergistic properties to the deck other than defense and at a cost of 4 mana and a detriment to the land base. It also just doesn't move me any closer to victory.

If it was a maze of ith well then probably yes it could defend my creatures somewhat be defense against enemy creatures doesn't cost mana to use. tht'd be good.

but thankyou for the suggestion. :) let me know if you have any others.

so far the tests for crucible have been amazing .:)

ryanjoha thanks for suggesting Crucible of Worlds so far i've tested it not extensively ,but its showing alot of promise. One game i had the Ghost Quarter combo going off while azusa was on field and another game i had the same thing happening with Horizon Canopy. And on top of that it just secures land fall if its down and i can make 2 landfall hit the field every turn with fetches. Just great suggestion i think it might have a permanent home in this deck. :)so thanks.

now nickiru I'm really liking Slayers' Stronghold but the mana colors..... hmmm i really want that in here. maybe shift one temple garden to a Stomping Ground I always have enough white sooo that might work and then replace tree top with slayer he has never been called to action or made use of so far in testing.

oh yah your mana base can totally take a shift. if you notice in my deck, I only have a couple temples, also notice how there is a load of 1 of's or pairs. its really just to search for 1 or 2 since you need only one or two right? that allows teh deck to be 4-5 colors no prob but makes land destruction all the more devistating. if you did what I did it may be even more devistating to lose a land cause you don't have stuff like Mul Daya Channelers for example to give you off colors in good quantity if you lose a precious land, but maybe you can mirror my style of land base and you can do 4 colors.

Lotus Cobra allows rainbow mana for each landfall, so that's also some extremely great mana fixing. however he dies the second he comes in...