CochiClick says... #2
Maybe add in Counterspell to the main deck or move Swan Song there in place of the lands. Legacy games are almost never one sided like this deck would prefer to play, and against some decks, such as combo decks, not having counterspells can basically be a game loss (this is why a hard counter like Counterspell is good, in my opinion). Just a suggestion, I haven't actually played the match ups enough to know very well
July 8, 2014 11:26 a.m.
@CochiClick - I may give that a shot. I like 20 because even if I don't get AEther Vial on turn 1, I can usually empty my hand by turn 4. However, if I do have AEther Vial then I always just end out sitting on too much mana. So I'll try play testing with -2x Mana Confluence and +2 Venom Sliver . Thanks!
July 8, 2014 11:29 a.m.
Hibernation Sliver is ridiculous, especially when used in conjunction with your Crystalline Sliver .
Most of your slivers are concerned with doing lots of damage but I've found the most effective aggro decks in legacy combine aggressive creatures with counterspells or discard or other ways of stopping the opponent from messing up their aggro plan. More protective slivers will do this.
Think about it: virtually unkillable slivers will be a nightmare for your opponent, and a couple 3/3s or 4/4s (possibly with some evasion) should be enough to quickly take out your opponent.
Also, there's a reason pretty much every single blue deck in legacy runs 4x Brainstorm
.
Verdict:
Probably remove Leeching Sliver , Heart Sliver or even some of the extra +1/+1 slivers
More Crystalline Sliver and possibly add Hibernation Sliver .
You might want to drop Sliver Legion down to 1x. If it resolves it pretty much ends the game but if it doesn't you just wasted 5 mana.
July 10, 2014 4:15 a.m.
As for the sideboard, if you want to keep it to just creatures these are some good choices (I know, they aren't slivers):
July 10, 2014 4:19 a.m.
mrslownpainful says... #6
If you are not on a budget, you should run fetch lands and basic lands. You thin out lands and become more resilient to Blood Moon . Also, I would replace all your 5mc slivers with Hibernation Sliver . It stops removal in it's tracks.
July 10, 2014 2:14 p.m.
@mrslownpainful - I chose the lands I did because fetches make the mana base much to inconsistent for a 5 color deck. Within 1-2 CMC I have all 5 colors and depending on my opening hand I will need to cast multiple different colors within the first 2 turns. That is almost impossible with fetches to consistently have the correct color fetches and the right color creatures in hand to go with them when running all colors and just fetches/basics. I've playtested with many variations of fetches and the deck is just significantly more consistent with the current land base.
I'm giving Hibernation Sliver some thought, because it is powerful, but I won't remove my bomb for it. Crystalline Sliver protects from single target removal just as well, and I have 4 between main and side, and I also have 2 Sliver Hivelord for boardwipes. Neither of these require me to lose life. So in the end, I think that Hibernation Sliver is more versatile, but I already have what it does covered. Hibernation Sliver can be better under certain circumstances, but Crystalline Sliver and Sliver Hivelord are better in most.
Thanks for the suggestions!
July 10, 2014 2:32 p.m.
CocoCrispy1337 says... #8
Ok here are my thoughts... Firstly though I want to say thank you for helping me with my Sneaky Slivers deck, you improved it A LOT and it wouldn't be as good it is now without the help from you.
Now, honestly regarding the Plated Sliver I think that 4x is unnecessary, and my reasoning for this is simple... The creature just increases your toughness and only your toughness, It doesn't help with attack power, and as an aggro deck, your focus should be damage or lifeless, increased toughness doesn't help you in that matter, Your argument for keeping the creature may be, well it helps stop things like Lightning Bolt , while this is true.. so Does Crystalline Sliver So why not take out the Plated Sliver and add Crystalline Sliver ?? Now you just freed up your sideboard, and improved your deck at the same time, Those are my thoughts I think that would be the best move for your deck. :)
July 11, 2014 2:31 a.m.
@CocoCrispy1337 - I'm glad that I was some help with your deck!
So here's my reasoning for running Plated Sliver , I know some people don't like it because it's slightly less aggressive than other slivers. It is a 1 drop sliver, and there aren't too many of those. In order for the deck to run smoothly, I like to have at least 12 1 drops, so I can always have a turn 1 play, which can put you ahead against a lot of decks. The other 1 drop slivers that could fill the slot are Virulent Sliver and Sidewinder Sliver . Since Virulent Sliver 's ability just adds 1 poison counter per hit not per point of damage, it is much too slow to win with. Sidewinder Sliver is much more aggressive than Plated Sliver and so if I did swap it out, it would be for Sidewinder Sliver . However, Plated Sliver has the added benefit of making you trade better in early fights. Meaning if you have a Plated Sliver and a sliver lord out on turn 2 and you swing, if they have a 2/1 or a 2/2, which is common by turn 2, then you will trade more efficiently if they chose to block or you will just hit their life, which is what you want. It also makes your slivers much less removable by burn and -1/1 counters. And it stacks.
So I know it was a bit of a tangent, but that's my reasoning for running Plated Sliver . I like it, but I also like Sidewinder Sliver so I may give that one a bit more playtesting to see if the extra aggression is worth it or not.
July 11, 2014 9:55 a.m.
Meathooks hasn't been a deck for a loooong time. I'm not trying to be too critical when I say that time has proven that "the best possible sliver deck" is Counter Slivers. I'm sure it's at least a little outdated, but every list only ran about 20 creatures, consisting of 4 Crystalline Sliver , 4 Muscle Sliver , 4 Sinew Sliver , 4 Winged Sliver (which I guess gets replaced by Galerider Sliver ), and the last slot usually being 3 or 4 Hibernation Sliver or Phantasmal Image .
The rest of the deck was 4 Force of Will , 4 Daze , 4 Swords to Plowshares , 4 Brainstorm , and 2 or 3 Ponder . And then 4 AEther Vial obviously. Also don't cheap out on lands. Flooded Strand , Tundra , Tropical Island , Misty Rainforest , stuff like that is just the best. Mutavault is also extremely good. You really should run a few basics though I think because as it stands you're almost dead to Blood Moon .
I'm not trying to tell you what to do or tell you that your deck is bad because it's not, I just wanted to share what's been tried and true in the past. I would hope you would at least give it some thought, but do whatever you want obviously. If nothing else, at least add 2 more Crystalline Sliver because it's the best sliver ever, don't be fooled. Especially now when stuff like Abrupt Decay and Swords to Plowshares are extremely common.
+1, Best of luck
July 11, 2014 3:45 p.m.
Terminus is still a very big threat (and practically the most common board sweep in legacy) that can cause you to absolutely destroyed, and your Sliver Hivelord s won't protect against it.
July 11, 2014 5:01 p.m.
@Durkle - I didn't know that was an archetype to be honest. It sounds fun though. I threw together a U/W/G Counter-Slivers deck for funsies. Sliver Control. I'll play around with it, it definitely looks fun/competitive though. Unfortunately, it is WAAAAAAY out of my price range. That's half the charm of this deck is that you can get consistent legacy wins at a fraction of regular Legacy decks price.
@miloguy - I mainboard 2x Swan Song for exactly that reason, and I can side in 2 more if needed. Board wipes and Blood Moon / Back to Basics are my biggest concern, so that is pretty much the only thing I'll use counterspells on.
July 11, 2014 5:15 p.m.
Saljen - Note that Virulent Sliver stacks as well. If you have 2 out, every sliver now has Poisonous 2. Meaning you only need a total of 5 sliver to smack your opponent for the win. I am not saying you should replace Plated Sliver , however there is a significant difference on its playability and power.
Sidewinder Sliver also stacks, making it significantly better than Plated Sliver since it basically becomes a lord whenever blocked or blocking.
I would suggest play testing with all 3 replacing each other against the top 3 Legacy decks to see which consistently is more useful in a game.
As for suggestions, I would take out Sliver Legion .
I know you probably do not like this suggestion, however this card is definitely a "Win-More" card. Admit it :D, I am also guilty of this, haha.
I would replace it either with 1 of the following options:
2x Crystalline Sliver (since it is so damn crucial in Legacy),
2x Shifting Sliver (this will help you win quicker than the legion),
2x Root Sliver . Because 4x Cavern of Souls just isn't enough, especially when every deck runs 4x Wasteland .
My personal choice of them all would be to add 2 Root Sliver , however I would still try to add 2x more Crystalline Sliver .
As always, I will link my own Sliver deck (Modern) to share and bask in the lovely world of Sliver Lovers (and laugh at the Sliver haters, who are secretly sliver lovers).
The Fourth Plague of Egypt Playtest
Modern*
SCORE: 3 | 3 COMMENTS | 374 VIEWSJuly 12, 2014 2:42 p.m.
I went ahead and swapped Plated Sliver for Sidewinder Sliver .
In regard to Sliver Legion , I do not thing that this is a "win more" card. In most games you'll have 2+ Sliver lords in play when you're swinging, however say you get a hand like Galerider Sliver , Striking Sliver , Manaweft, Sliver Legion and some mana. This type of hand is fairly common, where you feel you aren't drawing any lords. In cases like this, Sliver Legion can take you from 3-4 1/1 slivers to 4-5 5/5 slivers with a single card drop. Then you can swing the 3-4 that are available, or all if you have Heart Sliver . This is much more effective then just drawing a lord and giving them all 1/1. Sliver Legion can just win games. It excels at winning games that you're behind in as well. And its almost always very easy to cast. So to get to my point, I don't think that Sliver Legion is "win more" but instead can completely turn around games when you're behind or just end them when he hits the field.
July 12, 2014 7:06 p.m.
Squiggoth_gargantua says... #15
Crypt Sliver is also awesome! you should concider him
July 12, 2014 7:13 p.m.
@Squiggoth_gargantua - Not a bad card, but I would pretty much be forced to run the vigilance sliver too so I could tap after swinging. I don't have room to take out 2 sets of slivers for those.
July 12, 2014 7:25 p.m.
plus in a format filled with counter spells and Swords to Plowshares , that card becomes a lot less relevant
July 13, 2014 1:35 a.m.
Hi, except if you are sure to win before turn 7, you will need to draw: what about descendants path?
July 13, 2014 1:56 a.m.
Descendants' Path is a great card, however it does pose the possibility of getting countered, when actually that card being casted could have been another sliver protected via Cavern of Souls or AEther Vial .
July 13, 2014 3:23 a.m.
@Dreno33 - I agree. decendants path is much to slow as well. This game wins turn 4-6 most games.
July 13, 2014 7:18 a.m.
Yes, much too slow. I have to say, your mana base is perfect. I was trying to run 4 Mutavault but once I sideboard it becomes nearly impossible to cast anything. So the Mana Confluence made a permanent appearance.
My version definitely has a lot more protection in it, but I can't seem to fit in more Leeching Sliver , haha
July 13, 2014 7:32 a.m.
ouch.nicekick says... #22
I love Slivers! And because I love Slivers I would take out all M14 slivers. M14 slivers are not true Slivers in either ability sharing or art! The only one that may be slightly acceptable is the Hivelord... but that is it! M14 ruined Slivers!
Anyway, rant aside, Sliver Overlord 's tutoring ability synergizes well with the awesome AEther Vial . Basically 3 colorless for any Sliver from your deck into play at instant speed. Also, have you considered Tormod's Crypt or Grafdigger's Cage for graveyard hate? As well as Pithing Needle for anti-combo, especially because this is an aggro-deck. It could be a little risky, but Chalice of the Void might be an option since you have the Vials and most instants that are used have cmc 1 or 2.
Just some thoughts, but don't taint the True Sliver Swarm with the M14 humanoid, stingy ability-sharing "slivers." Just say "No!" to them!
July 14, 2014 2:25 p.m.
@ouch.nicekick - The reason I don't run Sliver Overlord is because he isn't aggressive enough. I want to win between turns 3-5. Throwing out a Sliver Overlord on any turn between 3-5, which is as soon as you can reasonably cast him, does nothing but slow me down. Then I have to spend even more mana for him to be useful. Sliver Legion on the other hand completely changes the state of the battlefield the second he touches ground. That's why I use him over any of the other 5c Slivers.
@Headers13 - Thanks!
July 15, 2014 12:01 p.m.
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr says... #25
1 extra reflecting pool over mana confluence since all your lands are "one of any color"
CochiClick says... #1
you might be able to take out 2-3 Mana Confluence and put in more slivers. playing mostly one and two drops + Manaweft Sliver means that even twenty lands could be a bit much, especially when you have AEther Vial as a way to put out creatures. Personally, I don't like Mutavault in this spot, as you should be using all of your mana every turn, but perhaps more of your other slivers ( Venom Sliver ? Virulent Sliver ? ) awesome deck though, I wonder how competitive it is!
July 8, 2014 11:12 a.m.