A new deck. No!!!!!
Anyway, I can't tell you anything good except for maybe Nessian Game Warden for Advent of the Wurm like kmcree said.
kmcree--He made the conscious decision not to run Boon Satyr do to it having two toughness. He says it dies to too much.
May 8, 2014 6:11 p.m.
@Matsi883: That's fair. I like him sideboard primarily to flash in against something like Blood Baron of Vizkopa , but Advent of the Wurm works for that too.
May 8, 2014 6:16 p.m.
The_Black_Eagle says... #4
I would recommend trying to fit Advent of the Wurm in there somewhere. Maybe in place of a Polukranos, World Eater and a Courser of Kruphix . Otherwise, great deck. Also, I wouldn't know where to put it, but Hydra Broodmaster is a great game ender, especially in your deck. I think it might sometimes be even better than polukranos... But great deck. +1
May 8, 2014 6:20 p.m.
Advent and the broodmaster are both cards that i really like and definitely considered.
Hydra Broodmaster is pretty much just win-more, plain and simple. If i'm going to be playing a creature with ton of p/t in green, I want it to have trample. Without the trample there is hardly a reason to play a 7/7 in my opinion. And the monstrous ability, while awesome and potentially powerful, also just seems superfluous. If the opponent doesn't have a removal spell for a broodmaster, I can just attack with it to end the game in a few turns (except it doesn't have trample. Did I mention it doesn't have trample?
Advent of the Wurm is a fantastic card that I love and one that I've been playing for a while. The reason it will not see play in here (likely) ever? It's not a creature spell. Ajani can't get him. Garruk can't get him. I have no populate in the deck to make use of him being a token, so that just makes the token nature of him a strict downside in some matchups. While it's great to have an instant-speed 5/5 trampler (especially bc trample!), I have no real reason to be holding him back unless I'm playing against a non-prepared opponent. I honestly like him more in a bant control build right now.
May 8, 2014 7:03 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #6
I'm not liking Nyx-Fleece Ram . It's 0 power is disappointing and a creature such as Voice of Resurgence , Scavenging Ooze , or Sylvan Caryatid would stave off aggro pretty well while providing some beats or ramping. I think you definitely want 4 Courser of Kruphix and 4 Polukranos, World Eater . Mistcutter Hydra is kind of just awesome. It's awesome against control and decent against MUD. Brimaz, King of Oreskos is an awesome creature overall. I highly recommend Advent of the Wurm to lay down the beats. Though it's not a creature it's still a 5/5 trample flash. I definitely think you should have some mainboard Archangel of Thune . Selesnya Charm is really awesome. Removal, pump, and tokens all in one. Finally, I advise against Mana Confluence in a build like this. You can't really afford the life early and don't need the fixing later.
Anyhoo like the deck. +1
May 8, 2014 7:48 p.m.
Allow me to start off by saying I have killed someone with the rams. Hast thou forgotten Ajani so soon? I really think you should give it a try and playtest with it against the major decks in the format. And if aggro becomes more popular (as it is predicted to do), having these mainboard means there is very little chance of an "oops I accidentally lost game 1 in 5 minutes because I wasn't expecting that" situation.
Voice of Resurgence falls victim to Last Breath or Searing Blood or the return of Magma Spray and control is not focused on counterspells. The only way voice becomes amazingly powerful in the current meta is in a blitz-type aggro deck focusing on having tons of small creatures since it "lives" through a Supreme Verdict . And that's great! but it just doesn't synergize with the deck well enough as the ram does. I want to play it, but I can't justify it right now.
I wish not to add more mana dorks because it had turned Garruk's +1 from drawing roughly 2-3 cards to drawing essentially 0-1 on a normal basis. More are not necessary. That was taken into account and tested thoroughly in playtesting.
Scavenging Ooze gets worse in a midrange build because you have less creatures dying in the early game. We also don't have access to "death" removal so that we could be using opponent's creatures for the ability. I wouldn't run more than 2 in a deck like this and my personal preferred number right now is 1. He's in the side board mostly because he gets better in post-sideboard games when removal options are coming in from other decks.
I tested with 4 Courser of Kruphix . I didn't like it. I drew too many too often and I really just want to be playing more threats in the mid-game. You could use that as an argument against the ram, yes, but the ram is here for protection and serves a very key role in the build. Not to mention synergizes like crazy with Archangel of Thune . Polukranos, World Eater , is great and potentially worth running four-of, but I draw enough cards to make that not necessary. I'd rather have multiple Loxodon Smiter , personally.
Mistcutter Hydra is absolutely awesome. I run 4 in the side. I would run one or two main if the spots weren't already taken by better cards for game 1.
To allow for me being able to run more forests to appease Nessian Game Warden , I do not run Brimaz, King of Oreskos . Brimaz is good -- very good. But I worry the mana would get funky. I also can't easily get him out T2 with an Elvish Mystic , which is a big part of my strategy currently.
I shall forgo Advent of the Wurm for the above reasoning at this point. If things change in the meta and he becomes better or if I find the need to change parts of the deck, he may come in. Archangel of Thune is fantastic in here with all the small bits of lifegain and will swap with Nessian Game Warden if things get more aggro in the meta (I address this in the article).
Selesnya Charm felt superfluous to me. My creatures are already huge, I don't typically need the tiny token. The removal is good against certain decks, but so is beating down with a 4/4 on T2 and a 5/5 on T3 -- making their 5-power creature just...okay. I love it against Obzedat, Ghost Council -- don't get me wrong. But right now I think things are situated where it's not needed. Perhaps if I end up removing the Game Warden in the future? I'll just have to get really screwed over by him before I do that because he's been great in testing.
Mana Confluence is a necessary evil in here. We only need a couple, but it really eases the curve up when you get hands like Elvish Mystic , Nyx-Fleece Ram , Fleecemane Lion , Loxodon Smiter , Mana Confluence , Temple of Plenty , Forest . If the confluence becomes anything other than a Temple Garden , that hand gets horrendous as opposed to amazing. I tested thoroughly with it and found I was happiest most often with 2. Ram also helps heal me from it's slight pain.
Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much. I just wanted to justly address your comment.
Thank you for the +1 :)
May 8, 2014 8:41 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #8
I think that Scavenging Ooze gets much better in midrange because as the game goes longer more and more creatures will die in combat and it will get huge and gain tons of life. I also feel like sacrificing awesome cards like Brimaz for Nessian Game Warden isn't worth it. At best it's a 5 mana 4/5 that replaces itself, at worst it's a 5 mana 4/5 do nothing. Neither is too overwhelming.
May 8, 2014 8:47 p.m.
Lol I think I actually managed to kill someone else as well xD
You make some good arguments InconspicuousPotato. I guess I can't say that Brimaz would be worse in here since I've not done testing with him. Perhaps the mana wouldn't be an issue at all! However, I will say that it is at the very least my personal preference to use Nessian Game Warden for the time being. I'm a big fan of using different and exciting cards to showcase their efficacy. And I've really been embracing my inner johnny lately by focusing on making sure my decks looked more like "webs" than "lines". What I mean by this is basically that I want synergy in a deck. I want every card to have attributes and functions that can synergize really well with the rest of the deck as opposed to just putting stuff in because it's really good.
Hopefully that makes sense. I certainly don't mean anything negative by it. I'm just explaining myself a bit. I'm a very picky deck builder lol. I always have been.
May 8, 2014 9:42 p.m.
Good work here! I suppose only two Sylvan Caryatid is because of Mana Confluence ?
May 9, 2014 9:30 p.m.
psones1: Well, the reason for only 2 sylvan caryatid is I honestly didn't want more than 6 mana creatures so that I could prevent drawing into them late game. The deck doesn't rely super heavily on ramp, and I prefer a T1 mystic into a T2 smiter more than a T2 caryatid into a T3 polukranos. Mana Confluence does a great job of allowing me to not get color-screwed when the game is just beginning. And the life loss from it -- while there -- just isn't super relevant in the end
May 10, 2014 9:20 a.m.
cogumerlim says... #13
Clap, clap, clap! Spootyone, you managed to do superbly in this edition what I've been trying since the last one. You can see the deck I made here: Selesnya Midrange BNG.
My whole intent with this deck was to have card advantage in a Selesnya midrange build. I used three Garruks (although here it is showing only two, but that's because I was testing other things hehe), Karametras and Coursers, and I eventually had this advantage, when things worked. I NEVER - EVER - lost to aggro because when Trostani, Selesnya's Voice hit the board, it was game over for them. If it was joined by Courser of Kruphix , Archangel of Thune and Karametra, God of Harvests , all of my creatures got instantly ENOURMOUS, with multiple counters being deployed multiple times per turn. It was insane and really fun.
...but it SUCKED against control, MUD and MBD. Although I really pushed myself into loving Karametra, she just isn't good enough, unfortunately. But then, came Ajani, Mentor of Heroes . And I'm happy again.
The first two things that came to my mind were: "GW MIDRANGE HAS CARD ADVANTAGE!!" and "GW AURAS CAN FINALLY ROCK!!". Because the auras deck was easier to brew (or just because I started with it lol), I began working with for some time, and it has really been working well (and Kruphix's Insight , alongside Ajani, really helps here). And you can see it here: Selesnya Hexproof JOU. But I always had plans for a new midrange deck. But I'm late, as you came first hahaha....
Really, this deck looks just like what I've been thinking. I'm happy you have the same fondness I have regarding the ram. She rocks! And that's the point, with Ajani she RAMS!! And it's interesting that you've come up with the idea of the super friends. I was just thinking of Ajani + Garruk, but, really, why not Elspeth, too? You're right on this one, each one complement the other, and that's perfect.
I like the numbers you have for each creature, I think it's really balanced and functional. Maybe, if you wished to play one less land you could play one more Banishing Light , but maybe that's not really necessary. While I was reading your deck I was considering "how could him add Voice of Resurgence and/or Selesnya Charm , but in the end I agree with you that they are unnecessary in a build like this, especially the Charm (even more so Advent of the Wurm , as it's not a creature spell). Maybe you could have a use for the Voice against control, but it's such a specific use that, really, you can challenge control with other means - mainly by matching its card advantage tricks with Ajani, Garruk and Nessian Game Warden .
But I do have some questions for you. the first being: Why do you leave Archangel of Thune on the sideboard? It's such an important card against MBD, MUD, and aggro that I think that you should keep it mainboard in Nessian Game Warden 's place, and then side in the Warden when you play against control. Or even have a mix of both against MBD or anything with lots of removal. What are your thoughts on that?
Second, as we see the rise of new dredge decks, maybe it could be important to have one more Scavenging Ooze sideboard. And, really, I ALWAYS have TWO Pithing Needle on my sideboard because it is SO important against control AND Pack Rats. Maybe you could reduce the numbers of Glare of Heresy , especially if you had an extra Banishing Light mainboard, but it's jut a thought - and I'd like you to tell me what you think.
Anyway, I really enjoyed to see this deck and to notice that I have a fellow Selesnya fan out there who is climbing up the ranks in the Magic Community! :)
+1! Congrats, keep up the good work and best of luck!
May 15, 2014 6:25 p.m.
Thank you to everyone for the continued support and comments! I did some testing with a few of the suggestions.
Archangel of Thune really is just good in this format and remains super powerful. And much as you all noted, Nessian Game Warden works better in the sideboard. I swapped them and I feel good aboutthat. Thank you!
I tested with Advent of the Wurm in place of Nessian Game Warden . The results were decent. I like having a creature with trample and I like the instant speed. But not being able to grab it with either Ajani or Garruk was frustrating as I thought it would be. I think I'd rather have Selesnya Charm since it can make anything have trample while also providing more utility.
I need to test with the deck more to find what I can remove to bring in the charm. I think it would help the deck tremendously. I might remove a RAM and then put one of the three left in the side by removing a single Glare of Heresy . That way I have less in the MB in matches where it isn't useful. How does that sound to everyone? :)
May 15, 2014 7:32 p.m.
cogumerlim: Thank you so much! I made a few changes just now based on some additional testing I've done after the real release of JOU. One of these was making your suggestion of swapping Thune and the Game Warden, which I'm in favor of right now. I'll check out your decks!
May 15, 2014 7:35 p.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #16
Dear god. Superfriends much? Along a similar vein, I wish they would have made a Deer God.
May 15, 2014 10:03 p.m.
I really love the superfriends aspect of this deck. It's what allows the concept to work honestly.
They should make a deer god.
May 15, 2014 10:31 p.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #18
Well, +1 from me anyway. It's nice to see a G/W deck that's not all about tokens. Three people at my tournament, which is usually very small, play Selesnya Token decks, and it irks me so much. Unfortunately for them, I play Rakdos Aggro, and have won every tournament in the last year except for 1 because games two and three he drew a hand of 4 Goblin Grendaes. And he had 1 hp left both times. Man I hate Goblins.
May 15, 2014 11:15 p.m.
cogumerlim says... #19
Spootyone, just to comment on the recent happenings with this archetype. I just played (during my lunch hour; I'm usually always busy, have a wife, and don't always have time to go to FNMs, so I do lots of testing on Cockatrice lol) against an Esper control deck (actually, it had black mana, but I really just saw the funcionalities of a UW control, which are already enough lol). The result: I CONTROLLED the board, not him. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes just shred my opponent's strategy to tears. I won the first game so easily that It made me forget the past times of difficulties playing Selesnya against control: I kept pounding him with my 11/11 trample ELVISH MYSTIC! hahaha... seriously, he was always killing my creatures, but I kept the pressure with Ajani, who pumped the mystic. When his life was low enough, he cast an Elspeth and made tokens to hold me off... but then I pumped the elf again and charmed him twice to get the game. I REALLY defeated an opponent with an Elvish Mystic, that's certainly an accomplishment (and something you can only really do with Ajani hehe).
The second game was longer, as sideboards came in. There was a turn in which I "drew" two cards: a Nessian Game Warden with Ajani and then a Polukranos, World Eater with the Warden (with three forests). It was fun. He kept wrathing me with Supreme Verdict s, used like three Detention Sphere s, but I kept refilling my hand and dumping threats on the board. He was always behind. He was so desperate that he had to cast a 5-mana Sphinx's Revelation (for only 2!), just to see if he could catch up. I had an Ajani on the board, another one in my hand, an Elspeth, Sun's Champion in my hand and a Garruk, Caller of Beasts also in my hand. Ajani brought me another Garruk. I cast Elspeth, he countered; I cast one Garruk, he countered again; but when I cast the second Garruk, he didn't have any more counters. And then it was game. He rage quit, because I was just one turn away from getting 100 life from Ajani (without losing him) and I could have all the creatures I could get with my super friends.
Really, it was fun. And made me proud of Selesnya again hehe :)
The slight differences when I use the deck is that I play one less land (a forest) and a fourth Banishing Light . Besides, because Nessian Game Warden is sideboarded and Archangel of Thune is in the mainboard, I balanced forests (8) and plains (5) a bit more. And my sideboard is also a bit different, as I use 2 Pithing Needle , 2 Scavenging Ooze , no extra Nyx-Fleece Ram and only one Glare of Heresy .
It's working fine like this. :)
May 16, 2014 2:49 p.m.
CaptainCaveman says... #20
Love Selesnya decks so +1 from me.
-2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts for +2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride -1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes for +1 Archangel of Thune -2 Mana Confluence for +2 Sylvan Caryatid -2 Nyx-Fleece Ram for +1 Selesnya Charm and +1 Banishing Light
check out my son's deck ... Punk's Deck and tell me what you think
May 19, 2014 1:51 a.m.
marcosousasr: Thank you for the kind words and suggestions! I'll see if I can't check out that deck for you.
Garruk cannot be removed. He's actually one of the single most important parts of the deck, granting my access to refueling against midrange and control. Same goes for Ajani, mentor of heroes. Caller of the pride is pretty decent and I considered putting him in here, but ultimately I think I choose the side of resiliency and inevitability over super-aggression.
May 21, 2014 2:05 a.m.
WhiteEyesCloudedbyH8 says... #22
How have 3x Courser of Kruphix been working, any reason you aren't running the full 4x?
June 14, 2014 9:11 p.m.
I'm not sure how he currently feels but I know he has tested with 4 coursers. I believe he didn't really like more than one, and just wanted to be drawing more threats mid to late game. Hope this helps!
June 14, 2014 9:58 p.m.
WhiteEyesCloudedbyH8: I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm currently working on an update to the deck (article to follow). In this update, I go back up to four coursers and I'm quite happy with it :) Thank you.
kmcree says... #1
The more I look at this deck, the more I actually like it. Well done. My only 2 suggestions are Advent of the Wurm and Boon Satyr . I'm sure you've considered them, as they're pretty popular in most G/W builds, so I'm very curious to hear your reasoning. I'm not sure I really like Nessian Game Warden . That's probably what I would take out for the Advents if I were to build this deck myself. Other than that, I really like it. Nicely done!
May 8, 2014 6:03 p.m.