RedSoxFanKy: Lol. No, you were correct! Given the information that has been released thus far, at least.

This is brilliant. I've been following your articles on Legit MTG (good work by the way) and your first deck tech seemed solid. Maybe if Standard livens up in the next block I might dabble into it again. I guess my one nit pick is, why not 3x Banishing Light ?

CanadianSamurai: Finally!! I've been really hoping to get some feedback rolling on this deck lol. Thanks for the compliment! :) There should be a new deck tech coming out any day now (waiting for editors) going over this exact build, so keep an eye out for it!

Alright, so there are a couple things about the deck that I'm still working out the kinks with. One of these are the numbers of both Banishing Light and Setessan Tactics . Both are absolutely amazing cards, but the numbers of them are really dependent on the meta one is going to face. And I think that if you would want to go to 3 Banishing Light , you'll probably want to go down to 1 Setessan Tactics . Do keep in mind I have the third copies of both in the side board to adjust in games 2/3.

The other things I'm still deciding between are a fourth Archangel of Thune and a 25th land (Mutavault in the sideboard). I do have a slight tendency to get mana screwed despite my ramp and coursers, but I'm trying to get a larger sample size of playtesting done before I jump to any conclusions.

With the angel, I find myself REALLY relying on her in a bunch of matchups -- both midrange and aggro, but mostly aggro. Against R/W burn, The game can easily ride on being able to stick an archangel. I actually just had a game recently where I cast all 3 archangels in the deck in consecutive turns, had each one killed before dealing damage, and then lost the game shortly afterwards. It was super frustrating and probably a corner case, but still it feels like she is my main win con more than not.

Based on what you see here, can you think of anything that might be worth changing to support the angel/mutavault in here? Or do you think it would be a poor decision?

Hmmmm. Okay, so I just went through a number of hands and then flipped through the deck to determine draws. Now, keep in mind my area of play is Modern, and the only way I keep track of standard is your articles and some occasional monitoring of the online metagame.

Anyway, let's move the deck away from the context and focus on it within a vacuum. I'm not sold on Eidolon of Blossoms as a 4 of in this deck. It cantrips, which is nice, but the chance of maintaining serious card advantage seems slim, especially since the 4cmc paired with 2/2 body isn't all that effective, at least to me. So, I would suggest dropping it to either 2 or 3, definitely not 4 though, it gets in the way. Even with ramp.

Now, as a Control player I always love seeing more land in a deck, consistency is key. With so much ramp, I doubt you hurt for Green, so I would go so far as to put 2 Mutavault in the deck and remove 2x Forest .

If you choose to remove a single Eidolon of Blossoms then you have your Angel's spot. If you remove two then you have an Angel spot and the potential of either more removal or a singleton of situational utility.

CanadianSamurai: In playtesting, I thought maybe that the eidolons were probably too numerous but I wanted to see what other people's opinions were on that. Really, I only went with 4 because every competitive deck I see with them runs four. I felt like it was a good starting point. What is nice is that with Ajani/Garruk, I can have (almost) a mini-Birthing Pod effect in that I can choose the creatures I need to fit the situation. In this way, I probably don't need to run four of them. This becomes especially true when they have less of an impact in this build than a dedicated constellation deck.

As much as I'd like to play 2 Mutavault , I fear that playing Fleecemane Lion alongside it is pretty terribad. In testing, I found myself fairly often having to mulligan a hand simply because I had a plains and a Mutavault and couldn't cast anything, even though I had so many 2-drops in the build.

I'm going to test with 1 vault as a 25th land in place of the 4th eidolon. And I've placed a 4th copy of Archangel of Thune to replace the vault in the sideboard. This seems like a good way to test it out, which I will be doing.

Ah, well at least I was of some help. I didn't realize the second Mutavault would cause so many mana issues.

CanadianSamurai: Well, no worries! I could still be wrong, of course. You have been a lot of help!

I like the new version much better. I don't have anything else to say, so I'll go into my suspended state until you respond.

InconspicuousPotato: Lol I'm glad! If you have the time, I'd like to hear your 2 cents on the above discussion. I'm still sort of up in the air on what the best outcome is.

Competitive decks run 4 because they're a using constellation. That's something that this deck can't do.nat most you'll draw one extra card on average. You have so little enchantments that it's not even worth a single slot.

I'd remove all 3 for an extra archangel/ajani (can't decide which) and the extra 2 banishing light. B-light is almost never dead because all decks play permanents. Even control players use jace, elspeth and d-sphere

TEGHabibird: Thanks for the input!

The idea for using the card in this build originally came after seeing Gerry Thompson utilize it in one of his decks: here. I go into more detail in an article I have coming up on Friday on LegitMTG.com. Basically, as long as the threat to obtain more cards is there, the card does well. It cantrips, which is nice. And turning all coursers and Banishing lights into cantrips as well is fantastic. In testing, I have enjoyed running the card in here.

That said, you're certainly not wrong. I don't get huge amounts of cards out of it and it could be that the slot it takes would be better used up by an actual threat or by more utility. The issues I have with this are that more copies of, say, Archangel of Thune will not help me against control. And control is where this deck is hurting. More copies of Banishing Light are great at answering their walkers, but not without them getting value out of them in the first place. And when they get to -2 jace, destroy the banishing light and -2 him again...well, that's not somewhere this deck wants to be.

Now I'm not saying banishing light is bad because it dies to removal. But I do think that more cards that allow me to get card advantage over them are really great. And maybe that just means more copies of Garruk/Ajani instead of the Eidolon. I'm totally down for that, but it will require more testing. And that's what my Showdowns and time are for :) Thanks again.

In that case, your sideboard should have more garruk.

If eidolon of blossoms mainly is for control matches, it shouldn't be mainboard. And even then, you have 9/60 enchantments. It's just not worth it for the cost-body-utility ratios.

The fact remains, is that if what you want is control match drawing power, garruk will on average net you 3 creatures per +1 or a free uncounterable creature per -3.

TEGHabibird: That's a very valid argument and I really agree with you. Hmm...I kind of wish I'd had time to do more testing/collaborating before I sent that article out. All well..live and learn, I suppose.

Allow me to adjust things a bit and why don't you tell me what you think? I appreciate the input again.

I like the main board. However I'm not sold on the extra polukranos in the sideboard. I can't figure out where it would come in and against what match!

Possibly a 2 copies of Trostani, Selesnya's Voice ? It would trigger straight off archangel and advent of the wurm. However to make full use of it, I'd suggest swapping fleecemane for voice of resurgence. The extra copy I'd swap an ajani in the sideboard. I don't think you need more than a total of 2

Not sure how you feel about that but I think it could offer a bit more resilience in your main board as he is almost just as offensive. Not as big a hitter but you can easily throw him in the frying pan and still profit.

TEGHabibird: I thought of Trostani while making the deck and figured I'd bring her into the picture if and only if aggro decks were still giving me trouble. Aggro decks aren't horrible for me given my MB, but the 4th Polukranos was basically just filler until i found something that made more sense (which would be Trostani). It has been added. As for the second one, I don't think it's super necessary. I have a lot of aggro hate all over the place in the build and I'm a bit more focused on keeping enough solid threats to handle control. Voice of Resurgence is another thing I obviously thought about when building the deck, but I just feel like it's lackluster right now between Searing Blood , Last Breath , Mutavault , Ash Zealot , Courser of Kruphix and more. 2/2 bodies feel oh so gross to me in this metagame -- even if they synergize with Trostani.

Thank you though :)

[comes out of suspended state]

With Caryatid and Mana Confluence I think a 2nd mutavault is a good idea. You won't get screwed THAT often since you still have 27 colored sources.

Also, I think a single Trostani, Selesnya's Voice mainboard would be nice.

Finally, is Garruk, Caller of Beasts really that good with barely over 1/3 of the deck creatures? You will really only get 1 or 2 cards from his +1. I liked Eidolon of Blossoms much better as a card advantage engine.

[re enters suspended state]

I agree with the above. 2 colour decks can almost afford to run all 4 vaults, depending on their curve and colour intensity. Your curve is mana dork heavy and colour un-dense. You could easily run 3

The only thing I'd worry about from those kill spells are last breath cos exile, and ash zealot because you can't win that trade.

The others are fine trades. Your opponents searing blood would've hit your elvish mystic for the same general outcome. And forcing your opponent to trade a land for your creature that nets you a creature is a well good scenario. Of course I see the point that the lion avoids all of that. I generally find, though, he eats removal at the same pace as VoR which is break neck.

Both I suppose have late game power. I suppose the final consideration is how you plan to use it. Your current build utilises each card well. Which is fine. And my suggestion of trostani and voice is also fine.

In context your decision breaker is archangel. With trostani (instead of polukranos) (though 2 in the SB) and voice (instead of fleece main) I think you could more easily get shit happening after turn 3 (with the help of dorks). You don't even need all of those pieces because each one plays happily with the rest of your crew (ahem ahem elspeth +1 + trostani) (+archangel for 3 4/4's a turn) (which is perfectly on curve ahem ahem)

Sorry forgot to put this in the above post

InconspicuousPotato the first reason garruk is good is because he can (likely) hit board before his curve with the 8 dorks, and he immediately begins refuelling you (which green usually lacks). He also represents aetherling style inevitability. If he isn't answered right now he gets out of hand and his -7 should read "when you play a creature, you win the game"

Let's say he hits on turn 3 (perfect hand)

You've played 3/23 creatures, 3/25 lands and 1/12 spells, while still with 2-3cards in hand. That's leaves you with approximately 20/50 creatures in deck.

If you reveal 5 cards 2 will be creatures (on average) which for 6 mana, is slightly lack luster. The more times you (get less when you) use it, the more reliable it'll be because you've moved non creature resources out of the way from previous +1's. If you get lucky and net +7 creature cards in two uses, you can start using his -3 to get them down, which isn't a "cast" and cant be countered

In perspective, for 6 mana that's 2 probable cards versus EoB's 1 for 4 with most other enchantments costing 3+ mana your losing valuable mana. The 2/2 body at that point becomes mostly unvalued, sine garruk can block for you if need anyway. Also creatures, and enchantments for that matter, are more easily destroyed Wear / Tear Doom Blade vs Hero's Downfall

Allowing for scry lands and courser of Kruphix, you can almost cater 20% of this drawing power, to guarantee what you're getting or to move an excess of lands away.

He's the ultimate zoo planeswalker to race control decks in card advantage

Why the 1-of Advent of the Wurm ? It seems kind of out of place. I'd go for a 4th Polukranos, World Eater or a single Trostani, Selesnya's Voice in it's place.

TEGHabibird, InconspicuousPotato:

I think I'll do a bit of testing running the 2 Mutavault and when I feel I've gotten a good feel for it I'll update you all on that one. i'm one of those people with a bad luck skill and so mulliganing is already an issue for me haha. I feel like it I wasn't running Fleecemane Lion I'd be more apt to playing them, but I simply NEED that creature in this deck to keep on pressure in certain matchups.

The explanation of why Garruk is good and why it makes more sense than the eidolon is a good one, so I will be using that in the future.

The advent of the wurm, to me, makes a little more sense than the fourth Poluk for a couple reasons. 1) Trample. 2) pseudo-flash. 3) Poluk is legendary. In fact, I would absolutely love to run more copies of advent but the fact that it isn't too amazing alongside Garruk and Ajani makes me not want to play it as much. Trostani used to be a big part of my original selesnya deck, conclave counter-cutter. I loved that she was able to make ridiculous combos occur. I loved the life gain. I really do love the card.

However, I did a lot of testing with her and she really just isn't always as amazing as she can be. I felt like she either did her job amazingly or fell completely flat when I played with her. Against aggro, she is bonkers. And that's why I have one in the sideboard. But as for mainboard I think I'd rather just be playing more immediate threats. I'm not saying she isn't powerful and not a threat, but MBD and Esper don't really care about her. And I really don't think building this deck around tokens to suit her ability is something I should be doing at the moment.

Do you mean you'll use it in one of your articles? That's cool. Link me to it if you do.

I see your point. Lion is good pressure. I agree that I'd be pretty solid.

If I feel that the deck goes through enough of a change I'll make a new deck tech for it. The one for this version went up today, TEGHabibird. I love the lion. Just threatening his monstrous is typically enough to draw a hero's downfall. Btw, if you do enjoy the deck, I'd really appreciate the +1. I'm trying to get this deck past the status of it's predecessor lol.

I was wondering if you might consider replacing Garruk with Nissa, Worldwaker from 2015, as it would combo very well with Polukranos, World Eater, and get you a lot more creature/lands?

PriestofOrzhov: Thanks for the comment!

I'll be incorporating M15 cards hopefully before my next article comes out in about 2 weeks. I'm going to be testing a brew with Nissa, for sure. She's basically the best thing green got in the set -- and green got a lot. Then once rotation hits this will be merged into a Green ramp deck that will probably be splashing white for Ajani, mentor of heroes. What do you think?