I'm still not sure why we feel that we need creatures. Honestly, I don't think the drakes should have a guaranteed slot either.
Since this is only a rough draft, I'm fine with keeping creatures. For the record, though, I'd like to see at least two more activator spells in the mainboard.
As for the creature vote, I'll abstain so that we don't accidentally end up with a 3/3 split between the two options.
August 1, 2013 2:59 a.m.
A Sorceries overload sounds interesting. Wish I could test for myself.
The thing I've found with solitaire testing, however, is the opponent has surprises as well that can be hard to predict... Luckily in draft that usually happens in the latter stages of the game. My point is, that if we go super light on creatures, their creature removal becomes that much more effective in stalling us. We may also find that we need to chump block as well, especially with the flying creatures.
Cards like Maze Abomination , Putrefy , Viashino Firstblade , etc have the potential to give us set backs thar are hard to recover without being able to deploy new creatures.
I think the sorceries overload could be effective, but are we testing in a fish bowl or against a mockup deck. Wish I had access to testing....
August 1, 2013 3:02 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #4
Cutting creatures makes us a glass cannon. There's less removal floating around here than there would be in Standard, but we can't deny that there is going to be removal getting in the way of our plans. Non-cyclops creatures give us additional board presence in situations where our combo has stalled and we need a couple extra turns or a couple points of damage.
August 1, 2013 3:25 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #5
My official vote for the first slot would actually go towards Uncovered Clues . I know for sure that I want to see at least one of them in this deck.
The second slot is where I would have to make my choice between Riot Piker and a second Uncovered Clues . I don't personally see a strong case for running Murmuring Phantasm in either slot.
August 1, 2013 3:29 a.m.
Fair enough. In my analysis, I was overlooking a couple of the better removal cards in the set, I suppose. In that case, I'd rather have an additional blocker rather than a suicidal goblin.
Also, I still prefer Beetleform Mage over either of these options, but to choose specifically between those two, I'd have to say:
August 1, 2013 3:29 a.m.
Well, I know I want at least 1 or two Uncovered Clues , so if that's in contention, that'd be my preference.
August 1, 2013 3:31 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #8
Anybody opposed to slotting in a copy of Uncovered Clues ? Gives us fewer spots to bicker over.
August 1, 2013 3:35 a.m.
actiontech says... #9
Sorry guys, I sleep at night :-)
+1 Uncovered Clues over Give / Take
+1 Beetleform Mage over either other creature option, but if we're really stuck with either of these bad two-drops then +1 Murmuring Phantasm I guess. Remember that the mage can be activated on defense as well and can easily buy us a turn or two as an intimidating blocker while we draw into our needs.
And while I think the "all-in" concept is fun I'd prefer to keep the 2x Wind Drake in the build. We did draft them and we were pretty happy to do so as I recall.
August 1, 2013 7:32 a.m.
I know we have a bunch of options here, but I think the way I view the only logical outcomes for our last 2 slots is like this:
- Riot Piker/Murmuring Phantasm/Beetleform Mage & Uncovered Clues
- 2 Uncovered Clues
- RP/MP/BM & Runner's Bane
- Uncovered Clues & Runner's Bane
I like the Beetleform Mage. It's a powerful card. But some games it's going to rot in our hands because we don't have a green source or a way to fetch it. That's why we shouldn't play it (remember, our deck is based on consistency and synergy). Between suicidal goblin and a defender with a huge butt that blocks all day, I'm going with the defender. I also like Runner's Bane, but it's better out of the sideboard where we can take out Uncovered Clues
and put in Runner's Bane
.
So I like Murmuring Phantasm
and Uncovered Clues
for our last two slots. Darkness, I know you wanted to only vote on one card slot at a time, but I just figured I'd give my vote for both card slots at once.
August 1, 2013 10:10 a.m.
+1 Uncovered Clues for the first slot
+1 Uncovered Clues for the second slot
Riot Piker is my alternate
That would put us at 12 creatures and 12 non-creatures, which seems reasonable given the current discussion. I think we keep the Wind Drake .
I'm on the road all day today, so won't be active in the discussion in all likelihood.
August 1, 2013 11 a.m.
Sorry for arriving late to the deck building party, I'm moving to another city this weekend so it has taken some time at the moment. Are we sure we want to cut Give / Take ? I'd rather have that instead of second Uncovered Clues or one of the Hidden Strings . It enables our cyclops or chargers by giving them 3 +1/+1 counters. That's really powerful for 3 mana. And we don't need to cast it at turn three so the green requirement doesn't really matter that much.
August 1, 2013 12:38 p.m.
Also I'd put in Beetleform Mage over Riot Piker any day even without consistent green source.
August 1, 2013 12:40 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #14
@dcarpntr, it seems like you and I are on the same page. One creature and one activator. From the look of it, we all want at least one Uncovered Clues . I'm going to add that to the mainboard and then we can fight like little girls over the last slot.
August 1, 2013 12:41 p.m.
actiontech says... #16
So here's my ideal decklist:
Critters (12):
2 Fluxcharger
1 Maze Glider
7 Nivix Cyclops
2 Wind Drake
Activators (12):
1 Dragonshift
1 Flesh / Blood
5 Hidden Strings
1 Punish the Enemy
2 Weapon Surge
2 Uncovered Clues
Lands (16):
6 Island
7 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Simic Guildgate
It's basically what we're talking about over and over but since the deck list is waaay up there I thought I'd bring it down to the comments section and NOW we can catfight over whether we pull one or both Wind Drake s and one or more Uncovered Clues in exchange for Beetleform Mage or Murmuring Phantasm or Riot Piker .
August 1, 2013 1:30 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #17
I think we should be discussing the last pick, using the deck that's on this page at the top. We've made that through a team effort and narrowed it down to one last slot. The group has collectively said that was a good shell, and we've argued and come to a consensus about adding at least one Uncovered Clues . Now it's time to discuss that last slot, not begin to deconstruct the shell we all agreed on. There's not enough support for Beetleform Mage . Wind Drake is ultimately going to be more reliable. As is the phantasm. My vote for the last slot is Murmuring Phantasm , as is dcarpntr's, I believe.
August 1, 2013 1:45 p.m.
I still think Give / Take is better activator than second Uncovered Clues .
August 1, 2013 1:52 p.m.
actiontech says... #19
Right, well the list I posted is exactly the list from above except it has Uncovered Clues in the last card spot and swaps an Island for a Mountain (since the guildgate provides blue but not red). During my testing the land base is better this way since cyclops requires both colors and we cannot play without the cyclops. So then, my vote for the last slot would be:
August 1, 2013 2:02 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #20
I suggest that we reset the comments now that we're down to one slot
August 1, 2013 3 p.m.
I Agree with landgrafb. Darkness1835, can you reset this mess and summarize, with utmost specificity, what the final vote means and what it has been limited to by previous discussion.
August 1, 2013 3:38 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #23
Ok, heres the scoop.
We had two slots left, after the majority of us agreed to the core of the deck. Everybody has slightly different opinions about which creature to include. Riot Piker
, Murmuring Phantasm
and Beetleform Mage
are the options. We were not making very much progress and thing were beginning to get cluttered. However, everyone wanted at least one of the slots to be an Uncovered Clues
, so Ive taken the liberty of putting that in there. Now, we have one slot left, and a handful of cards to choose from. Those cards are:
Riot Piker
, Murmuring Phantasm
, Beetleform Mage
, Give / Take
, another Uncovered Clues
or Runner's Bane
.
Everyone has voiced their opinion, but its hasn't been enough to reach a majority. It's become clear were past the point of being able to convince each other. I think its time to just vote and eliminate until we get to our last pick.
Please include, in your next comment, your top 3 choices for what we pick for this last slot. Rank them 1-3. 1st rank will receive 3 points, 2nd will get 2, and 3rd will get 1. Once everyones voted, Ill tally the points, narrow it down to 2 or 3 picks, and then we can vote again. This should give us our last pick. Its fair, efficient, and easy.
August 1, 2013 6:46 p.m.
- Beetleform Mage (all anyone ever asked was Riot Piker vs Murmuring Phantasm)
- Uncovered Clues
- Murmuring Phantasm
August 1, 2013 6:50 p.m.
I did a lot of thinking today, and I retract my statement I made earlier about not playing the Mage because it could stay in our hand without green mana. It's too good not to play.
Darkness1835 says... #1
Evening, group.
Since we started the building process, things have been disorganized and hard to follow; allow me to attempt to summarize our progress, and exercise some jurisdiction. There are 2 slots available in our build. Instead of arguing right away about which cards we all want to see in the mainboard, let's argue each slot separately. Right now, let's assume we're arguing over slot 1. It's fair to propose that this slot be a vote between Riot Piker and Murmuring Phantasm .From my count of those who have voted since I last posed this question, we have 2 for the phantasm, 2 for the piker, and 2 for give/take. That's a three way tie unless we organize it by card type. creatures vs activators is 4-2, so I think it's fair to go ahead and rule out the activator. So, those who were in favor of Give / Take should help break this stalemate by picking a creature.Once we come to a majority about which creature to take, we'll move onto the other slot, at which point Give / Take and Uncovered Clues very well may come up again. But for the sake of coming to a decision and not arguing unavailingly, let's vote on the creatures. I already know where dcarpntr, landgrafb, Agog and I stand. I just need to hear from at least two more to make this official.
August 1, 2013 2:40 a.m.