In Efficiency Piles under Gush Pile you have Probe instead of Gitaxian Probe.

greekdestroyr1 Thanks man, fixed!

Thank you for this. I'm trying to build a doomsday deck and this saved my life

how would you win with doomsday without blue in your deck? for example, how does grenzo turbo doom win?

Aetherion99

Grenzo Doomsday Primer

Clay goes over those lines in more depth that we had time to here.

Great primer! I built yidris Doomsday and have been pulling my hair out trying to figure out the piles. This helped tremendously. Big fan of lab maniacs I watch every episode! Keep up the good work!

Why is there a Tropical Island in this list? There aren't any green cards are there?

Madmatt222 Mostly for completion's sake actually. Sadly with the banning of Leovold, BUG DD isn't really a thing right now, but you will see some 4 color commanders in green. Generally green cards are not often piled, but Noxious Revival runs around from time to time, mostly as disruption rather than a piling card. I have added Regrowth as a potential piling card as well for people to play with now.

It's also there just to help people remember that fetchland piles are a thing, too.

But you're right, green probably is piled the least of the colors.

I'm liking and experimenting with manamorphose both as an opener and in a pile. (Yidris dd/storm list) It opens up a few possibilities. It can pay for itself to recast from gy in yawg will piles and pay into nights whisper in possible protection pile setups. It's a useful card outside of piling too.

Added!

How does the turn 1 work if you pop LED and you have to discard your hand so you technically cant chain doomsday to probe since its a sorcery and youll end up drawing something from your full library instead?

Nvm I did the order wrong lmao. So how do you cast you cast doomsday turn 1 w/o dark ritual? What do you mana fix for 3 Black for DD turn 1? Is it cabal ritual and two mana sources?

Jazzmino

You do need DRit in hand too.

Doomsday have a discord?

xEth0sx

Yes it does:

https://discord.gg/E2qQ5se

This is so helpful. I'm learning Doomsday and having some difficulty. Namely, playing without LED. Im working on buying one. Soon

Anyway, I was wondering if you could suggest some piles without LED. I understand they will be slower but that is how it goes.

Also, how do you like Kess, Dissident Mage as a Doomsday commander?

kilgore

For LED-less piles, using Unearth and Predict will get the job done pretty well. Try exploring those cards in a pile! Here is something:

1. Predict
2. Laboratory Maniac
3. Gush
4. Unearth
5. Gitaxian Probe

This pile works with predicting LabMan or predicting incorrectly.

Kess, Dissident Mage is a fine DD commander. She lets you do some things which may not be possible otherwise, but she's not required. Her Yawgmoth's-like ability is pretty great.

Thanks AlwaysSleepy. I appreciate the quick response. What I like about this primer compared to others is, the idea of counting to six. A lot of guides give good ideas on how to pile after a Doomsday but yours explains how to open the pile.

I was wondering if there is ever a time you'd cast Doomsday and pass the turn? And then draw into the pile naturally.

I'm asking because Doomsday wins can be very Mana intensive. When determining the cost of your pile, you have to consider the BBB cost to cast Doomsday along with the cost of casting the cards in the pile.

It doesn't seem like a very good idea, to cast Doomsday and pass the turn. So I was also thinking about paradox engine. Allowing a player to untap Mana rocks after a DD cast and after each card in the pile cast.

I'm not sure if this is fast or efficient. What are your thoughts?

From my experience, the extra protection you get from Kess in your Doomsday piles is what she really helps with. Being able to cast a counterspell from your yard before DD resolves is huge. Also being able to double use Pact of Negation in your protection piles is great.

kilgore

Paradox Engine is a playable card in certain archetypes but in storm or DD it falls more into the "win-more" camp than something beneficial. The power of the card is undeniable, but in storm or DD the power is already there and you don't have to slam a 5 CMC card to get you there.

One of the things which may be making it hard is piling without LED. LED really does make a lot of a difference in piling and is what turns on so many of the really strong piles. Outside of LED, options become thin as your best piles become Predict, Unearth, and Street Wraith based.

Casting Doomsday then passing is not ideal. That being said, I've done it before. Generally into some heavy stax lockdown which wasn't going anywhere fast. So rather than get into the pile and risk failing, I just passed and played a pile with protection next turn.

This probably should not be on the list of lines you look for first. It's not a safe line since you give opponents a turn to stop you. That being said, and if I'm really honest, it's Doomsday, and mostly, wonky things happen. The majority of my pods these past few weeks have been really weird DD lines, and I did DD pass once or twice. The more I play DD, the more I learn there are no real hard and fast rules, just guidelines and concepts which you use to get you there. I end up breaking my own rules enough to say that really the only thing which remains constant is casting LabMan and somehow counting to 6.

If it works and it's stupid, it's not stupid, haha.

Sgtpopnfreash

Agreed.

Safe piles are easier with her.

AlwaysSleepy thanks again. I recently put unearth and street wraith in the list. Wraith hurts a little on the ad nauseum but really makes for some compact and efficient piles.

Won a game last night with impulse as the opener as well. That's a neat card to build your pile around.

I definitely will be getting a LED.

kilgore

Nice man! Yeah Impulse makes for some silly pile openers. The fact that it says you can order the cards makes it a useful pile opener. One of my favorite goofy ways to open a pile is with Intuition, where you build the pile to essentially play itself based on any 1 of 3 cards.

Probably the most sad/silly way I opened a pile which people shouldn't be doing is passing with Dark Confidant in play. I cast DD, put Bob into play, and loudly proclaimed "PASS."

The whole pod just erupted in laughter.

I lost that one sadly. :(

Is there any reason that Ideas Unbound doesn't see more love in Doomsday piles? Is it just that it's a bit sub-par outside of the package?

enpc

Yeah pretty much.