Hey, I am attempting to make a four-color doomsday deck, the main issue is im not running blue, so I was wondering if anyone had comments that could assist me

AlphaBlood0523 yes I advise that you add blue.

AlphaBlood0523

Not having blue will definitely hurt. You lose out on Laboratory Maniac, which is the best win-condition so far for DD. There are piles you can do using black card draw and Second Sunrise. The pile is going to be a little rough since you don't get blue. Also, this one specifically requires you to open the pile a draw 2. So like, Faithless Looting. Here's the pile:

1. Night's Whisper
2. Lion's Eye Diamond
3. Conjurer's Bauble
4. Grapeshot
5. Second Sunrise

This pile works like this:

Bear in mind, you need a way to draw Night's Whisper. Black has a decent amount of card draw to get this done. Red loot spells might also get you there.

1. Cast your draw 2 (Faithless Looting for ) into Night's Whisper and Lion's Eye Diamond; if you are looting, you'll need 2 extra cards, you have to keep the two you draw
2. Cast Night's Whisper for to draw Grapeshot and Conjurer's Bauble
3. Play Lion's Eye Diamond and cast Conjurer's Bauble for
4. Crack Lion's Eye Diamond for , discarding Grapeshot
5. Crack Conjurer's Bauble, do not put anything into your library, and draw Second Sunrise
6. Cast Second Sunrise, bringing back Lion's Eye Diamond and Conjurer's Bauble
7. Crack Lion's Eye Diamond again for
8. Crack Conjurer's Bauble, put Second Sunrise on the bottom (top) of your library, and draw it
9. Recast Second Sunrise
10. Repeat steps 6 through 9 for infinite storm count via the Second Sunrise loop
11. When you are done, crack your Lion's Eye Diamond for
12. Use Conjurer's Bauble targeting Grapeshot in place of Second Sunrise to put it on top of your library, and then draw Grapeshot
13. Grapeshot the table to win

This pile has a number of ways to work. It's best with Predict, but we don't have blue. The pile I listed costs total. You can play around with draw spells to get the pile moving, as a number of different things work. But bear in mind it's an awkward pile, as 4 slots are taken up in Grapeshot, Lion's Eye Diamond, Conjurer's Bauble, and Second Sunrise. If you can only draw one, you might need one of the draw 3/4 spells. Many of red's or black's draw spells hit 2 cards though, so at least the density is there.

There are other things you can do also without blue. Namely, piling a combo and winning with the combo. Worldgorger Dragon piles with Animate Dead and Faithless Looting plus some outlet are fairly common, so feel free to use George with any outlet you prefer. Even silly things Shivan Gorge work with George. Other combos which can be piled are Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker piles and winning with some Twin combo.

I haven't spent too much time exploring blueless though, to be honest. So there is likely a lot more space to tap into. Unfortunately though, losing Maniac really hurts, and it begins to make winning off DD more work than a convenience.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

Thank you so much for all of your assistance, it mean more than the world, you've made my day so much easier and made the game alot more fun For me thank you

AlphaBlood0523

No problem.

Under the Gush Pile header you say "we use LED to pay for Yawgmoths", but Lion's Eye Diamond was errata'd to say "Play this ability only any time you could play an instant." So you'd have to have the mana already for Yawgmoth's Will, you could crack LED in response to YW so that you'd have the ability to gain 6 additional mana though.

EDIT: Nevermind, I hadn't gotten far enough to see that you crack the LED in response to the spell that draws YW.

yeah when you know that yawgmoth's will is the next card in your deck you can crack led before you draw it. This pays for Laboratory maniac and Yawgmoths will in your doomsday piles.

My local play group has started to get into Canadian Highlander and I was wondering if you had any advice which point cards to put in the deck?

Don't play Doomsday in that format. You don't have nearly the number of points you need for the tutors and ramp to play doomsday, also there is no need to go all in since its a 1v1 format.

DruneGrey

Oh dear, I don't know much about CanLander. If you want to play Doomsday in the format, I'd prioritize the cards which let you make the efficiency piles:

From the points list, the two cards you have to play are Doomsday (1) and Mana Crypt (2) since they are regularly used (the first one obviously haha). Other than that you get the rest of the good piling cards from normal EDH for free.

Here are cards which I would consider from CanLander which are completely stupid with Doomsday, you'll have to pick based on the 8 points we have left:

1. Fastbond (1)
2. Ancestral Recall (6)
3. Black Lotus (7)
4. Tolarian Academy (1)
5. Time Walk (5)

These are cards which more or less break Doomsday and make piling much easier. Considering we have only 8 points left, the best choices to me seem to be Fastbond + Recall + Tolarian Academy since you get 3 busted cards. GushBond Doomsday is pretty dumb, and also really easy haha cause you just replay any number of lands you want. Mana becomes a non-issue. Tolarian Academy is just busted, and plays nicely with the rocks we'll be playing. Ancestral Recall is P9 and probably the card which is most powerful in Doomsday overall. Brainstorm is incredibly good with Doomsday, and Recall is essentially that card on steroids.

I'll qualify that I don't play the format, so I'm not sure exactly what is best. But I can list cards which break Doomsday in half.

Ideally we want Black Lotus and Recall for maximum borked, but the points don't let us do that. :(

Even so adding cards like that and you lose Vampiric Turor, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Sol Ring, Mana vault, basically every cards that makes DD work

No I agree, but I thought I provide some kind of an answer if you wanted to do it. Losing tutors hurts.

None of the cards which make DD "work" need points minus Doomsday and Crypt, but you lose a lot of cards which help make it a worthwhile win condition. You can add in the tutors but then you lose the broken cards which make you want to play Doomsday in the first place.

It's at least interesting to think about, which cards you want to be playing.

My first thought was I can fit, Demonic, Vampiric and Mystical Tutors with Doomsday. You still get Yawgmoth's/LED/Lab-Man plus most of the cantrips, so you'd still likely have workable piles.

I just got a copy of Doomsday, and this thread is invaluable. I'm a huge fan of black cards that seem like they have massive downsides (Necropotence, Doomsday) but easily win you the game if you know what you're doing.

I'll have fun contemplating my own Doomsday piles. Lab Maniac for the efficient win, and now I just need stuff for the stylish win...

Lord_Khaine

Hellcarver Demon is max style max disrespect.

Bruh..

How about Demonlord Belzenlok??

Oooo... I like the Demonlord Belzenlok appeal. Doomsday, Belzenlok, shenanigans.

Demonlord Belzenlok seems really bad in an Ad Nauseam deck but thats just me.

I will always have a soft spot for ridiculously overcosted black creatures with a silly effect attached.

I also probably wouldn't ever touch them for Doomsday lol. But major style points to anyone who does.

Well, once you know you can do an efficient Doomsday pile, then you gotta practice having the most stylish Doomsday. The showiest, the flashiest, the most memorable.

Whats the Commander for the deck?

Comedydragon84

None for this one, it's just a primer on how to play hte card. Many commanders work for this.

Hi! First of all: GREAT ** PRIMER. I am currently building a version of Esper (Zur) DD, since I found a (pretty mistreated) Yawgmoth's Will in a box of one of my friends.

I have one question though: It is possible to achieve consistent piles (and wins) without the use of a L.E.D.? It is (and probably will remain for a long while) out of my budget, sadly.

Anyway, great content, keep it up!

pablcol

It is possible, though a little weaker. The piles you want to look into are piles which use Predict and Unearth as the way to use Laboratory Maniac to win.

I agree, sadly LED has just become a very hard to obtain card, and unfortunately is one of the key pieces which makes Doomsday competitive thanks to the ability to produce 3 mana of any color. However, it's very doable to play without, and generally you lean on Unearth. This also helps trim Yawgmoth's Will, and while neither should be cut, both are sadly expensive, and this is I think the best alternative.

Hi all! What would be the best pile with aminatou? Predict labman probe LED