Also, why no Frontier Bivouac? I get that landfall is the endgame, but couldn't it still cover all the bases?

darkskills- first of all, do you mind not clicking every single suggestion box? it gets irritating when someone suggests a card thats already in the list. Regarding your comments, Earthen Arms isn't good enough imo. sure the extra counters might help early on, but they are negligible by the late game when the awaken ability becomes viable. Surrak Dragonclaw is good against counterspells, but weak against direct removal. my creatures are generally big enough for me no to have to worry about my opponent's creatures. both Earthen Arms and Trap Essence feel more like win-more cards. Akoum Stonewaker is the same- little impact early game, not enough impact late game. you can definitely add in Frontier Bivouac. honestly, my landbase isn't the best

summersdg- i don't know. I can't test the deck out, so there's actually no way of knowing how well the deck runs beyond playtesting, which isn't that accurate

tempest - What I like to do when testing out decks is take a proxied version to fnm with me and ask to play a game for fun with it after I finish my match

summersdg- i don't play paper magic anymore and i don't have the time to test it online :/

Oh, well then hahaha

I'll be testing it tomorrow night, hopefully. Though I did make one change- replaced Stubborn Denial with Temur Charm, simply because I cannot seem to find a single copy of it anywhere near me, and I'd like options for when I don't need to counter anything. Also, wouldn't two Kiora and/or Nissa make for better consistency, or are they not that important?

Also, apologies for checking the suggestion boxes on my last post (I had no idea what they did.)

summersdg- yeah :/

darkskills- no worries. i got a little too irritated a little too quickly DX and thanks! tell me how it goes, especially how well Temur Charm plays out and if Negate / Scatter to the Winds would perhaps be better.

Thanks tempest-I have plenty of Scatter to the Winds, I just think the two blue cost would be a little harder to reach early game then the RGB cost. Do you have any suggestion for a substitutions for Blighted Woodland? I love the card, but I only have 1. Maybe Animist's Awakening or Nissa's Renewal?

As such, my 24 lands consist of:

2 Shivan Reef, 3 Cinder Glade, 2 Yavimaya Coast, 2 Lumbering Falls, 1 Blighted Woodland, 4 Frontier Bivouac, 4 Forest, 4 Mountain, 2 Island

darkskills- no. 24 lands is good for this deck. i don't like have 6 tap lands though. it makes turn 4 omnath a lot less reliable. i'd rather have more basics for fetch land / Blighted Woodland / Nissa, Vastwood Seer  ^Flip targets.

as far as the planeswalker comment earlier, i only use 1 of each because they aren't essential to the win and I wouldn't ever want more than 1 at once. plus, there's Greenwarden of Murasa to get them back if they ever die.

true about Scatter to the Winds. tell me how well Temur Charm works then :D

tempest - I was interested enough to build a similar deck as this and playtest it against a few decks. It's very fun when it goes off. But getting to go off was frustrating more often than not.

What I liked: Of course, Omnath, Locus of Rage! He's insane when it snaps. Greenwarden of Murasa proved to be surprisingly good. And 8 mana dorks is a good number.

What I didn't like: Not enough land and/or land sources and way too few blue for the mana curve. Like usual, the first mana dork is a removal target. If I'm sitting with 2, 3, or even 4 lands a times it's GG. The mana base worked very well with the following:

25 lands

1. 1x Blighted Woodland
2. 2x Cinder Glade
3. 4x Forest
4. 1x Island
5. 3x Lumbering Falls
6. 2x Mountain
7. 1x Prairie Stream
8. 3x Shivan Reef
9. 4x Windswept Heath
10. 3x Wooded Foothills
11. 1x Yavimaya Coast

7 Sac lands was much needed to keep lands untapped and activate landfall to the max. Plus thin out your deck and of course get more blue asap (13+ sources).

Radiant Flames Mb and/or SB was a must for me. Maybe it's meta but aggro and/or creature base decks just destroyed any possibility of setting up.

Kiora, Master of the Depths was boss here. 2x really glued the deck together.

I went and did other personal preference changes but the core remains the same. Omnath, Locus of Rage smash!

I might have to try this. But why Prairie Stream instead of Flooded Strand?

HairyManBack- hey, thanks! did Retreat to Kazandu not do it for you? would Jaddi Offshoot be better? how did Radiant Flames work out considering that it kills our own mana dorks. also, if you're adding a little white, might it be worth it to add in Woodland Wanderer?

darkskills- so that you can still access blue mana from Windswept Heath

On the subject of changes, could you suggest anything to replace Temur Ascendancy? I know it's essential to the deck, I just don't have that card either. (Someone needs to go shopping~) And I know the fetch lands are great too, I just need to ... actually have money for those.

tempest - Glad you took the time to read my lengthy comments! :)

Retreat to Kazandu is somewhat helpful. But R/G aggro usually destroys me before Retreat can get going. That is if it's available asap. As where Radiant Flames destroys their whole fleet immediately. But the +1/1 counter is good a little against other aggro-midrange creature builds. But let us not forget Dromoka's Command is around. Yes, Radiant does destroy mana dorks. Here's what I felt best overall:

Woodland Wanderer very important to run because of immediate size and vigilance, imo (plus Prairie Stream bonus). Defense was necessary with this build as it needs time to set up and then smash. Woodland provided that quick threat to hassle until then. After Radiant Flames he may sit there alone stomping opponents until they reset. And he's bigger than Siege Rhino.

2x Kiora, Master of the Depths After Radiant Flames resolves you may have an open invitation to run her for a couple-few turns. There's no true spells here that snatch lands out of the deck and put them into play. Which is trouble getting to 6-7 mana sources consistently. I wondered if Kiora would continue the tempo of ramp (lands and untapp mana dork). It was the best I found that worked.

Seems like an interesting alteration.

Played with my variant tonight. Going to replace my Shivans & Yavimayas with fetch lands tomorrow, since those absolutely dominate. Also taking out the Stubborn Denial and replacing it with Slab Hammer, because I was correct in assuming Temur Charm met my needs. Will keep them in the sideboard. Also still considering mana fetching cards, though the single Nissa did that just fine. Running this deck in the Game Day tomorrow, so I'll let yall know how that goes.

HairyManBack- what spot does Woodland Wanderer take then? Zendikar Incarnate's? and what about Shaman of Forgotten Ways to help with wanderer? then Retreat to Coralhelm for mana shenanigans? and what spot should the extra kiora take? sorry for all the questions... DX

darkskills- just be careful with Slab Hammer since it can hinder your ramp

Deck went rather well. Managed to get everything from the original decklist in (except 3 of the Wooded Foothills.) Almost everyone else was running either eldrazi or R/W/B allies, so I did not manage too well in terms of wins. Added that Shaman of the Forgotten Ways in, and it's a huge help early game- at least for me. Slab hammer doesn't go well with the deck, but I feel that I need some form of removal.

tempest, thoughts?

tempest - Yeah, Woodland Wanderer over Zendikar Incarnate. I really like Incarnate but I don't think he's as good. 1. He comes out 3rd turn w/mana dork as 3/4 vanilla. Even at 5/4, 6/4, or even 7/4(?) opposed to 5/5 or 6/6 trample and vigilance is just better. Especially, in standard right now. Didn't want to elaborate on it earlier cuz there was the Surrak Dragonclaw combo. But I think we both agree coming out with trample and vigilance is just better. The kicker, however, is Incarnate works better with See the Unwritten.

Shaman of Forgotten Ways isn't needed with Woodland (unless you really want that 6/6 body). I've been seriously considering Shaman otherwise. Honestly, I'm debating if I go more creature ramp to creature or more "get lands out of deck" creatures, spells, and/or artifact (Sword of the Animist) to creature and planeswalker.

To your credit I've gotten compliments on the build I've been playing! But it's been tedious trying to find the best synergy with ramp, bigs, and combo. Same time keeping it's core theme.

Retreat to Coralhelm looks like a bad Kiora, Master of the Depths. Which I would play it cuz I like those cards. :) Yet you have to have lands to activate. I already see myself playing it and I activate it 0-2x, smh and then go back to Depths.

darkskills- Temur Charm wasn't enough? would Radiant Flames have helped?

HairyManBack- i really liked See the Unwritten though. helps get omnath and surrak out and incarnate gets trample from surrak. do you think the deck needs the stronger early game or late game?

• tempest, Temur Charm didn't go too well in the deck for me- I ended up sideboarding it for Shaman of the forgotten ways more often then not.

I'm definitely going to invest in some Radiant Flames, since it seems that I need a stronger early-game to get things going. Hopefully that works better next Friday.

After considerable playtesting I've finally felt confident to post what I got.

Elementals Makin it Rain

Consider these reasons as a broad brush stroke to help understand:

Embodiment of Spring over Atarka's Command. I know there's players who would laugh at it but it's better here, imo. Now you have 1CC mana drop. 2CC mana drop Rattleclaw Mystic. 3CC Shaman of Forgotten Ways and Nissa, Vastwood Seer  ^Flip. And 4CC ultra mana accelerator Kiora, Master of the Depths. Equally as good it's 0/3. Blocking many weenies before sacking. Perfect early tempo.

Woodland Wanderer over Zendikar Incarnate. We mulled this over. Even though See the Unwritten doesn't grab it I still think it's worth it playing 3 copies. Adding more defense and early threat.

Savage Knuckleblade and Surrak, the Hunt Caller over Undergrowth Champion. That was a tough one. But Champion wasn't performing like one. He still died to all removal except burn, needed more and more land to get big, and too often just sat there as a vanilla X/X. Getting blocked by a 1/1 Scion.

Whisperwood Elemental over Surrak Dragonclaw. I love Dragonclaw but it wasn't as consistent as dropping a bomb like Whisperwood. Other than the obvious he's an elemental that can sac for 3 damage at will.

Shaman of Forgotten Ways over Temur Ascendancy. Again, a very tough one. I really like Ascendancy. But it under performed too regularly. Many times in my hand as I scramble to cast creatures for board presence. But I might go back to 1-2 MB or SB.

MB creature removal - I think more of a meta call. The deck is better prepped against removal now MB. For now I'm going control-hate SB.

Dragonlord Atarka - He's just too good to avoid. MB needed something for removal and evasion, imo.

Too answer your question directly, btw, it was my experience the deck needed better early and midgame presence, tempo, and overall consistency. I think all us elemental players agree the late game is covered! :D

HairyManBack- man. my timmy/johnny side just isn't satisfied with those changes. i'll make a note in the desription

You should really add at least 1 Prairie Stream so you can fetch a blue with Windswept Heath