Daedalus19876 says... #2
NarejED: Teeg is necessary to the function of the deck, or more precisely to the prevention of the functioning of other people's decks. He's a complete lock on a good number of competitive decks, and as such he's worth protecting. The creature protection spells (like Greaves) also protect you other, more powerful lockdown cards like Linvala.
The deck doesn't seem overly color-heavy, so I doubt Blood Moon will be a major problem. I play in a very competitive EDH meta, and I would argue that Dark Depths, Dust Bowl, Glacial Chasm, Homeward Path, and Thespian's Stage definitely fit in the deck (the others you mentioned probably should be cut). DD and T'sS are a win condition together, Dust Bowl is some of the most powerful nonbasic land hate available to GW, Glacial Chasm can unexpectedly shut down a combo when tutored with KotR, and Homeward Path is amazing if the meta abuses theft effects. And Knight of the Reliquary can find all of them at instant speed.
May 28, 2016 1:13 a.m.
SomeDipshit says... #3
Great input guys -- Ill work on cleaning up the land discipline, seems like a teeg temporary exile effect would be good for getting the LD combo into play along with other things.
If I were going to run mana rocks (which I might), they would be Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox. They get Teeg out on turn 1 -- or they get him and Mother of Runes or him and some other protection enchantment out. I usually need more colored mana early.
Think you're right about carpet of flowers, any single blue deck more than pays for it over the course of a game. Even discourages multiplayer decks from not playing islands with early fetches! (Now I know who has counterspells in hand)
Not sure if I should include ramp enchantments -- I might build in a squirrel nest combo, which would fit well. Land enchants would go well with winter orb and static orb effects. Could also add Umbra Mystic.
I have to say, Teeg is critical. This deck does not even win by turn 8 most of the time. So keeping fast decks down is crucial -- and every single one of them holds their big spells until the moment is right.
May 28, 2016 1:44 a.m.
@Daedalus19876: Incorrect. The deck can play out its normal strategy regardless of whether Teeg is on the field. The decks that require a lot protection for their commander fall apart without them. This is not one of those decks, and thus Teeg is not worth heavily protecting. Playtest it a few times if you do not believe me.
May 28, 2016 1:52 a.m.
SomeDipshit says... #5
Hm, I mean -- it works without teeg true, but is very bad / completely outpaced without Teeg being in play.
I think that this is something I can work on -- it shouldn't require teeg to be in play.
May 28, 2016 2:15 a.m.
Some cards that would be interesting to look at:
- Dryad Arbor : A manland that helps you early game and can still chump block late game.
- Acidic Slime : A nice threat with build in removal
- Scroll Rack : I see you have Land Tax in the deck. You do know the strong combo with this rack right? 'Ultimate' card draw engine...
- Oracle of Mul Daya : Ramp and card acceleration in one package. I would include this.
- Worldly Tutor : Where is this card?
Did you ever consider playing more ramp? After all, you do have access to green.
May 28, 2016 2:27 a.m.
Daedalus19876 says... #7
People often forget, but your commander is the most vital card in your deck because you always have access to it, and a removal spell won't permanently get rid of it. It gives the consistency that a singleton deck lacks.
Teeg singlehandedly shuts down many decks and forces you into the late-game, where this deck thrives. If there isn't extreme protection for him, a deck can kill him and instantly combo off, because you rarely can control which other lockdowns you possess.
Any cards that can protect him, especially if they also can protect another important lockdown component, is definitely not a dead card.
May 28, 2016 2:32 a.m.
SomeDipshit says... #8
Already have Scroll Rack, it wins games no doubt. Great suggestions as well -- could definitely use some more land playing abilities. Don't know if I can necessarily find a place for Oracle of Mul Daya, but would like to include it.
Acidic Slime is risky business for me -- with ETB hate, it fors have deathtouch, so, considering it
Will definitely be including Lightning Greaves based on discussion of, "is teeg important?"
May 28, 2016 2:45 a.m.
Matrixxx999 says... #9
- Oracle of Mul Daya - ramp and card advantage
- Courser of Kruphix - card advantage right from your library, and it will trigger any triggered ability with "enchantment"
- Sylvan Safekeeper - very good for protection, and can be even better with Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Land Tax, Flagstones of Trokair, Drownyard Temple
- Serra Ascendant - a good beater and can lure removal
- Fountain Watch - this creature is rather slow, but it provides very good protection for your permanents
- Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots - Gaddock protects himself from mass removals with his own ability (most of them), and if he is protected from spells with cost less than 4 (most spot removals), then it is very difficult to remove him from the battlefield.
- Congregation at Dawn - good creature tutor
- Devoted Caretaker - more protection
- Nature's Claim - for more control
- Lotus Cobra more speed for your deck, great with cards like Exploration, Crucible of Worlds, Knight of the Reliquary and fetchlands
May 28, 2016 7:54 a.m.
Matrixxx999 says... #10
And I would use all the avalible fetchlands in your colors
May 28, 2016 7:58 a.m.
TheFanatic says... #12
I'm not a big fan of having voltron-style enchantment cards in a prison deck. Some of the single-target auras like Alpha Authority and Canopy Cover are too easily blown out and should probably be replaced with more prison cards like Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety for some pillow fort action.
May 28, 2016 12:36 p.m.
TheFanatic says... #13
Also, you're really missing out on board wipes. Austere Command, Wrath of God, Rout, etc. They're key to any white control deck.
May 28, 2016 12:56 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #14
Guys, I can't play huge noncreature spells normally, but some of those cards are good enough to be included regardless (Austere Command namely, maybe even Rout)
If I were to include sphere of safety or these wraths, I would definitely need to move this deck entirely away from voltron and more towards total prison. I need to include the bouncing gaddock tricks. Its looking like that is the general consensus -- but voltron has been working pretty well in this deck.
Need to do some soul searching there. Thanks for the suggestions! And thanks to whomever upvoted
May 28, 2016 3:47 p.m.
Matrixxx999 says... #15
Don't know is it worth it, but there's board wipe that could work with your commander - Retribution of the Meek
May 28, 2016 7:27 p.m.
Daedalus19876 says... #16
Harsh Mercy works pretty well too. Most competitive decks have little tribal coherency (with the glaring exception of Elves), so you usually kill all but one of their creatures.
May 28, 2016 7:29 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #17
Alright, so I've updated the deck to be very little voltron and much more prison -- even so, I am not sure how to feel and would like more suggestions.
There is now a one sided land lock ability in the deck. Cryptolith Rite and Seedborn Muse used for mana with Winter Orb and Hokori, Dust Drinker in play -- not to mention that counting lands work well alone with either in play.
The enchantress theme still works, I think, but I removed Kor Spiritdancer since there are very few auras now.
I almost added Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest, but that kindof seemed anathema to the focus of the deck, which is prison. That isn't to say that I am completely opposed. Earthcraft helps with land lock as well.
There is a lot more removal in the deck now, and the protection from creatures has been changed to be more reusable / more general -- Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Mother of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper, Felidar Umbra, Swiftfoot Boots
There are a lot less enchantments now (down to 23) -- which I don't know is enough to power enchantress, but there are numerous ways to search for either Whip Silk or Flickering Ward to keep things going with excess mana. I would run Mentor of the Meek, but one of the earliest things I search for is Torpor Orb or Hushwing Gryff.
I'm thinking that it might be worthwhile to just cut enchantress altogether and move on to the "stall until combo" gameplan, wherein I still play all the hatebears, but run Flickerform and or High Market effects for when its time to combo off.
Didn't end up including Mirari's Wake and Austere Command -- still open to doing that, since the deck is much less focussed on keeping just Teeg in play for the entire game.
Anyways, if you're still reading, please take a look at the current list and tell me what needs to go in, what needs to come out, and what I can do to focus the prison / enchantress strategies given each other. Keep in mind that voltron is likely out at this point (except maybe I could add back just Ancestral Mask or something like that). I haven't updated the description yet.
Thanks to everyone for the help
May 28, 2016 7:31 p.m.
Daedalus19876 says... #18
Since we've already got a lot of EDH bigshots here, anyone want to help me with a deck of my own? #shamelessadvertising
May 28, 2016 7:31 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #19
Harsh Mercy and Retribution of the Meek are the two "with Teeg" wraths that I could possibly run.
Generally -- either fucks me just as hard -- I have little recursion (much less than other decks) and some of my most important big creatures are vulnerable (Dragonlord Dromoka, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite)
Thoughts on Intrepid Hero? I might run him
May 28, 2016 7:33 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #20
Added back Ancestral Mask because it's just too hot and spicy for me to ignore -- removed Beast Within. The cuts are killing me here.
May 28, 2016 7:38 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #21
Still trying to think of creative ways to use Glittering Wish and Living Wish -- these would be crucial for getting a silver bullet into play. -- Need to think about rebuilding the deck with these in mind -- maybe bring hate bears down to 1 per effect, revamp the enchantress, and add some less general hate bears to the side board. Since cuts have been the big problem for me, this would be a good solution.
May 28, 2016 7:52 p.m.
Matrixxx999 says... #22
I did not offer this card before, since it contradicted with voltron strategy, but now it seems like a good addition - Greater Auramancy
May 28, 2016 8:39 p.m.
SomeDipshit says... #23
Yeah it may be a good time to include that -- I will only have one or two auras on any given creature at a time now
May 28, 2016 9:10 p.m.
I_TappedWrong says... #24
just from reading the comments what about Regal Behemoth and Silent Arbiter
October 10, 2016 12:14 a.m.
SomeDipshit says... #25
Regal Behemoth is pretty sweet, I'll give it a try. Since Monarch is generally so bad, I doubt it will ever be a downside -- cool.
Silent Arbiter has been in and out of a lot of my decks -- generally, not worth it here since I mainly win by attacking with 3-4 creatures for 3-4 turns. A good card for voltron oriented strategies though -- at which point, it would probably be better to run Dueling Grounds
Thanks m8!
NarejED says... #1
I'm partial to Loyal Retainers in any GW(x) deck that runs Elesh Norn. It allows you to cheat her into play cheaply off of Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman, on top of providing utility outside of the combo.
You're running both Linvala and Norn, but no Living Plane? I know you can't cast it under Teeg, but shutting off everyone else's lands permanently is quite powerful. It provides a reliable, easily assembled win condition.
Strong hatebears I don't already see in the mainboard that would be worth making room for: Kataki, War's Wage and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
Your curve is fairly low, but fast mana never hurt anyone. Sol Ring is an obvious must, as is Mana Crypt if you can afford it. Carpet of Flowers should really be mainboard unless you're in one of those odd metas where blue doesn't exist. You might also consider adding in more mana dorks.
There are a lot of lands I'm not a fan of in this list. Arcane Lighthouse, Dark Depths, Dust Bowl, Glacial Chasm, Homeward Path, Reliquary Tower, Secluded Steppe, Sejiri Steppe, Thespian's Stage, Tranquil Thicket, and Vesuva are all fairly bad in EDH. With cards like Blood Moon and Back to Basics being heavily played in competitive circles, you're better off running basics lands over them. Or, better yet, pick up the remaining Fetchlands. You should be running all seven available to your colors.
Don't waste time trying too hard to protect Teeg. He's not central to the deck's performance. He just comes in as needed to shut down opponent's strategies. Protection at upper levels of the format is reserved for commanders whose decks cannot physically function without them (Yisan, Sisay, Arcum, Narset, etc). For Teeg, it's wasted deck slots. I'd add in more draw effects like Mentor of the Meek, or more creature ramp.
May 28, 2016 12:44 a.m.