Hello Rossa,
Thanks a lot for your very extensive feedback. You've mentioned a lot of interesting stuff; let me go through it one by one:
Sakura-Tribe Elder; your reasoning is sound on this one. Just realized that if Prowling Serpopard is already on the field, I can make summoning the Elder un-counterable; can't say the same for Rampant Growth.
Nissa's Pilgrimage; yes, strictly speaking it is better. However, since this deck is so light on instances and sorceries, I expect it will not matter half the time whether I'm casting my current spells or Pilgrimage. However, it will replace Kodama's Reach for now.
Zendikar Resurgent; great idea! Card draw is way harder to come by than some attribute increases for green anyway. I will make the change.
Song of the Dryads; funny story: I did not know I had one of these until yesterday :) I completely forgot that this card is part of the stock 2014 Freyalise commander deck. This card is definitely better than Naturalize; will make the change.
As for the cards you mention as 'Other ideas'; I will think them over.
December 28, 2017 8:12 a.m.
Burgeoning and Exploration (and others like them) are not really that good unlest your deck draws a lot of cards consistently. If you have one them in your opening hand together with a lot of lands, then they are super flashy, but they stop providing value really soon and they don't do anything else on their own. You can make a case for Exploration synergizing with Courser of Kruphix, but I still bet that most of the time they're a dead card.
Allow me to demonstrate. In this example im naming Burgeoning, but the same is true for all the other cards that just give you additional land drops from your hand and do nothing else.
Let's say your opening hand with Burgeoning looks like this.
L, L, L, L, B, X, X. and in the first three draws are X, X, L. (L= Land, B= Burgeoning, X= Some other spell)
This would be a really good opening hand for Burgeoning, maybe optimal.
In the first turn you play Burgeoning and by the second turn you have four lands on the battlefield and four cards in your hand. At this point the Burgeoning will basically stop working. On turn three you'll have five lands and four cards.
If instead of the burgeoning you had something like Llanowar Elves you'd be one mana behind on turn two and three, by turn four you'd have the same amount of mana, but by turn five and later you would have one additional mana from the elves that you wouldn't be getting from Burgeoning.
That is the best case scenario for burgeoning, if you get it mid game is mostly useless, the elves will still give mana and be able to chump block in the mid and late game.
So, does Burgeoning really deserves the spot in the deck so you can be one mana ahead in turn two and three if you happen to get it in your opening hand with the right amount of lands? (comparing to a cost one mana dork) Taking in consideration that two or more players will have to lose 40 lifes for you to win, it doesn't earn the spot. But you can get enough value out of it if your deck is made to draw a lot of cards consistenly all the time or your deck revolves around land mechanics.
At this point, the way I see it, you have three options: Jumping with both feet into the land theme, adding as much card draw as possible or removing them in favor of other ways of mana ramp. You can also do a bit of the three options if you want.
If you really want to go all in with the land theme, you could keep all the "additional land drop cards" (not Burgeoning) and add Oracle of Mul Daya for more land from top of library and Ramunap Excavator to reuse your fetchlands from the graveyard over and over and then your additional land drops would always be spent. If you were to add the Ramunap Excavator then I would also add Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse or other lands that enter untapped and you can sacrifice without paying mana like Ghost Quarter. Everything I said about the Ramunap Excavator is also true for the Crucible of Worlds, which I don't like to recomend because it's way too pricy for me.
Even if you decide to remove the land drop pack, your deck could benefit a lot from more card draw. Commander games most of the times are an endurance race and the guy who ends up running out of cards and is relegated to one draw each turn, is the most likely to lose. Currently you have as reliable card engines Garruk's Packleader, Elemental Bond, Garruk, Primal Hunter and Lifecrafter's Bestiary. I'm not counting Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Vizier of the Menagerie, Courser of Kruphix, Zendikar Resurgent and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury because I don't think they are reliable enough or in the case of Zendikar Resurgent it's too late-game, more like a finisher by itself (you kinda enter in god mode) than a mean to get to an end and if you get to put it on the battlefield but your hand is empty, it will be of little help to you. I'm not saying these cards should go out, I like all of them and I run them in several decks, it's just I can't count them as card draw.
I would add about four to chose among these (I find that at eight card draw engines the decks starts drawing cards consistently) Hunter's Insight, Life's Legacy, Greater Good, Momentous Fall, Hunter's Prowess, Soul's Majesty, Rishkar's Expertise, Mouth / Feed, Shamanic Revelation, Regal Force (I'm not really a big fan of this last one but maybe in a mono green works fine).
If you decide to remove some or all of the land drop cards you can add instead Overgrowth, Worn Powerstone or Thran Dynamo as a bit heavy but efficient mana rocks and Birds of Paradise, Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl as first turn rampers.
To get some extra juice from Seedborn Muse and Elemental Bond you could use Splitting Slime.
Instead of (or maybe together with) Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet you could use Champion of Rhonas (bigger body matters) and Deathrender (it's actually doing something useful while you don't have big creatures in your hand and also, mitigates the damage caused by board wipes).
Sorry for not formulating the proposed the changes as "card-A for card-B" like you wanted, but it's not always that simple. Maybe I see a card more useful than you do (or the other way around) because our respective metas are different.
March 23, 2018 1:38 p.m.
Hi JuQ, thanks for the ton of feedback. You've noticed correctly that this deck isn't fit (yet) to be some sort of land-drop paradise. I do not intend to let it become about that. At least not all about that :) That takes out a lot of the fun I've had with the original idea of this deck; swinging with some good bruisers in plain old combat.
Having said that, I will definitely take some of your recommendations for a spin. Burgeoning will (at least temporarily) make room for Birds of Paradise and Bow of Nylea will make room for Oracle of Mul Daya. Though I've not had much issues with draw in this deck, I'll also replace Overwhelming Stampede with Shamanic Revelation. Last but not least, I think using Champion of Rhonas could be more efficient in in all green deck compared to Quicksilver Amulet; so that'll be my final replacement.
Again, thanks for the ideas. I wish you happy brewing and good games.
March 23, 2018 7:04 p.m.
I always love the big beastie style decks, and this one looks fun too! Two cards immediately come to mind as I’m reading through your list:
- Yeva, Nature's Herald - another way to abuse Seedborn Muse.
- Quicksilver Amulet - an alternative to the Elvish Piper.
They don’t necessarily bring anything new, but they give you more coverage for some of the most powerful elements of the deck.
As for what to replace, a lot of that is personal preference. I’ve never been a fan of Greater Good outside of reanimator decks. And maybe between Mirri's Guile, Sensei's Divining Top, Scroll Rack, and Sylvan Library, just pick three of those four. Top deck manipulation and extra draw is excellent, but might be too much redundancy, maybe? You do have a LOT of good draw effects included already.
September 13, 2018 2:06 a.m.
Hi Mitrian,
Thanks a lot for your feedback! We (my husband and I) had been considering adding Yeva, Nature's Herald for a while already. Maybe you're right about the draw/scry effects. We are going to drop Sylvan Library for a while and see how that goes.
We agree that Greater Good is at its best in reanimator decks, but since so many creatures in this deck are high-powered and as such are great targets for removal, this card at least allows us to get a little bit more value from them before they're sent to the GY. So we will be keeping it in.
As for Quicksilver Amulet, it was in here before but dropped in favor of something else (can't recall what the exact change was). We will keep it in mind again though during the next games; see if it would have made a difference.
Regards,
NV_1980
September 13, 2018 2:17 a.m.
Kjacobson6800 says... #7
No Ashaya of the Wilds? She's pretty good. I just posted an elf deck with Ezuri up front. Im in the process of tuning it now. I also have my Kaalia deck up that I've had for years. Muuuch different build but still very fun and annoying for the table. This one (yours) was super fun to test... solid build!!
March 16, 2025 8:53 p.m.
Yeah she's good Kjacobson6800 and I hadn't fully considered her yet. Grants the possibility of a lot more mana, and brings some additional combo potential as well. Maybe the next time I play this deck I'll replace Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen for her and see how it goes. Thanks for the idea.
Rossa says... #1
Hello! I checked this deck and it is really cool, knowing your play group preferences it can be really effective. So what I can do is just providing some ideas/adjustments which are probably worth considering.
Cards with similar ability like you have in the deck, but with little extras:
Original: Rampant Growth
Ideas: Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Crop Rotation, Emerald Medallion: Sakura Tribe Elder has the same mana cost as Rampant Growth, but can block and be sacrificed for a basic land, and since it is a creature it can be pumped up if needed. Wood Elves is a little bit expensive (3 mana), but brings the Forest untapped to play and also can block, and can be pumped if needed. Crop Rotation requires sacrifice, but it does not matter if you bring a value land to play, like Nykthos or Yavimaya Hollow or Wirewood Lodge. Emerald Medallion has the same mana cost and can provide much more mana than Rampant Growth (I know it is more fragile), but it can really accelerate the game.
Original: Kodama's Reach / Cultivate:
Idea: Nissa's Pilgrimage: It is simple better in Mono Green, since Nissa's Pilgrimage can search 3 lands in special cases.
Original: Caged Sun
Idea: Zendikar Resurgent: Caged sun is cheaper with 1 mana and provide +1/+1, but this bonus is really impressive if you play with tokens, but as far as I see this deck is not a Token Factory. My opinion is that +1 card draw per creature is better than the +1/+1 bonus.
Original: Naturalize
Idea: Song of the Dryads It is little bit expensive and does not have instant speed, but can disrupt any permanent.
Other ideas:
Cultivator of Blades: I think it would be a good choice for this deck. It provides creature pump based upon her power (Nylea can pump up her as well), she can create tokens against decks which force you to sac creatures, and it comes to play with +1/+1 counters which can be doubled with some cards already included your deck.
Traverse the Outlands: It is a newer card, but it has place in all Green decks with big creatures.
Harmonize: In my Green decks Harmonize has a reserved place, however I suppose you left this card out consciously.
Vernal Bloom: It is extremely good for ramp, except your group plays with Forests.
Eternal Witness: So typical but always useful.
Hall of the Bandit Lord: Surprise has a value so it is really good with big creatures. Pathbreaker Ibex, Heroes' Bane
I hope I could help!
December 28, 2017 7:40 a.m.