RubyStrings: thumbs up Knights are my favorite thing. I wish they had a second lord that's actually viable... it's what they really need to be competitive in a vacuum.

What do you guys thing of Dryad Arbor as a 1-off or 2-off in place of a forest or 2.

The advantage of this card being that it can be discarded by Fauna Shaman , as well as Lili. (The downside ofc being that she is affected by summoning sickness...)

I wouldn't cut any more basics in this deck, it just so happens that there is this card called Path to Exile that modern players really like (who knew?) so I think you should have at least one of each basic for your colours.

PlattBonnay Hynar Hynar :P

I'm actually more worried about Blood Moon than path. That's a good point tho, maybe if I cut one of the HIDEOUSLY OVERPRICED FETCHES...

safearus, LoL I never said anything about indestructibility getting around sacrifice effects with Living End . Most obviously there is no relevance there. What I was talking about is utilizing Exemplar (and colour protection, Esp Mirran Crusader ) once all the crappy cycling creatures with no combat abilities have flooded the field. Playing an Exemplar immediately after this to back up one or two creatures is enough to keep you in the game and help you stabilize. Your waiting removal should take care of the major threats that are boarded (likely in this case exiling a fat Jungle Weaver or Monstrous Carabid . As long as you have been effectively pressuring your opponent he probably didn't have a lot of time to cycle stuff to the grave, so you should still be able to stabilize your board. I've utterly destroyed some Living End players by just playing smart, saving Exemplar for after the wipe and prioritizing threats. One guy used all 3 'Ends in his deck, manipulating the battlefield around over and over, but each time an Exemplar was brought back in and he couldn't do anything so he scooped. A lack of any trample or evasion mechanic on boring cycling creatures lets us ensure battlefield dominance with indestructibility and colour protection. And as I said before, Haakon makes this an even easier match for us. Now, Scapeshift and 4-colour Restore Balance decks are a completely different story...

I want to +1 thispersonisagenius's earlier suggestions. All of them are very relevant. I agree about the usefulness of maximizing your Fetches... However I think cutting down to just 3 basics total may be a bit risky. There are decks that run Ghost Quarter , Boom/Bust and Avalanche Riders alongside Blood Moon to maximize the pain. And when 'Moon comes into play, things are going to get desperate very quickly - especially if you didn't draw an AEther Vial . You need those basics for Paths and KOTR as well. Yes, you will probably be fetching basics last, but this doesn't change their importance.

So it may seem silly to microanalyze this far, but I would up your Forest basic to 2 and cut one of your fetches (putting you at 7). This is for two reasons. First, Green is the universal anti-enchantment colour, so when you tutor in your forest to smack 'Moon expect it to get nuked before your other lands. Second, and more importantly, it is the common colour between Abrupt Decay and Qasali Pridemage , your only two sources for dislodging it.

You don't have to remind me about how overpriced fetchlands are. :( When I first started playing Magic (M11 release), I bought two M11 boxes and a Zendikar box. In that box I drew 3 Marsh Flats , 2 Arid Mesa and 1-2 Verdant Catacombs (can't remember for sure). I had no idea how relevant they were, nor was I able to predict their usefulness in Type 1 formats or future, potential $$ value. To my naive brain a rare for a rare was a fair deal, especially as I trusted the friend I traded them to. Safe to say the rares I exchanged for them now range from .50 - 2.00 and probably were not worth more than that during the time either... I certainly learned my lesson.

I also just want to reiterate thispersonisagenius's main idea in his earlier comment (#2). If you try and do too much, you risk losing consistency and stability. Your exchanges with opponents should be optimal most of the time. Modern is all about 2 for 1 exchanges, and virtually all creatures played in a competitive environment capitalize on this in some way. By capitalizing (and thus specializing) they have to abandon something else, and 9/10 times this is combat effectiveness. Only a few hatebears, Ooze, Goyf and Resto can go toe-to-toe with knights - at least these are what you will see frequently.

As such, it can be considered optimal to have a versatile deck with a versatile strategy that demands as specific responses to it as possible - the more specific the response required to shutting it down, the better. Don't use Dryad Arbor , it's bloody easy prey for Electrolyze , Darkblast , Zealous Persecution and a host of other removal. Most of the time you will just lose a land needlessly. The circumstance of using it only with Fauna Shaman and no recursion makes it worse. If you want better options with the Shaman, I would second using a singleton Hero of Bladehold . It finishes matches on its own (especially in a grindy-control matchup), survives bolts, is a human/knight for Cavern of Souls , is Haakon/Exemplar/Vial compatible and generates tokens for sac effects. Athreos, God of Passage could be interesting since it fits vial at 3cmc and sending creatures back to your hand allows you to tutor via Shaman or vial them out again. If knights are sent to the grave, Haakon can just re-cast them. Only worst case is Haakon getting sent back to your hand without a means to discard/vial him again.

If you want to try something that is IMO both stable and viable for your list, try dropping 1 path (for now) for 1 Nameless Inversion or 1 Crib Swap . Either are discard options and obviously you get additional midrange/control/lategame possibilities with Haakon.

I still think UB control decks, superfriends, hyper aggro (i.e. affinity and infect) and tron are among your most difficult matchups. Oblivion Stone is like an anti-thesis to your deck, and the pridemage won't always be able to stop it. Just remember how important Pithing Needle is in your side, and how it shuts down planeswalkers, tron artifacts/O-stone/Mindslaver , Birthing Pod , Vedalken Shackles , most of affinity (Arcbound Ravager / Cranial Plating / Steel Overseer / Inkmoth Nexus ), even Twin combo (name Exarch/Pestermite, rarely there is Kiki) and enemy AEther Vial s. If you find yourself losing to these cards often, it may be worth it to add another Needle to the side. It's definitely one of the best Round 2 cards printed; even my WW knights list has routinely conquers $400+ decks when using it correctly.

And finally, yet another reason green mana is an important source for your deck is necessarily having it available for Scavenging Ooze 's ability. By extension, this highlights another problem that I strongly think you should consider for the long term. Broadly speaking, you are cashing out a lot of life here and Ooze aside you have absolutely no lifegain. You are taking damage each time from fetchlands, shocklands, Thoughtseize , any Spellskite use and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge 's deaths. And that's just your own spells.

A single Basilisk Collar could suffice here, netting you lots of life and killing threats too big for your creatures - you can just keep attaching it and relentlessly slam into your opponent's creature line with knight recursion. Another option may be to consider an Extort mechanic or two. Blind Obedience is good against aggro, and the other that comes to mind is a single Knight of Obligation . You can use Extort whether you cast from your hand or the grave, and it functions best in the grindy-control matchup anyways. Just food for thought. :)

MetaphysicalxProdigy: Ouch. I think a lot of people got shafted when Modern came out, and a lot of the cards they considered worthless (and had therefore traded) became staples and went from 2 bucks to 40.

What's your take on an earlier suggestion to perhaps put either a 1 or 2-off of Wilt-Leaf Liege or Hero of Bladehold in?

It'd make this deck more immediately, explosively powerful to be sure, but the deck in it's current state is positioned to induce a long, slow grind and then swing with an Elspeth-empowered Mirran Crusader or a 7/7 KotR. Throwing in 2 of either of those cards could easily upset the sem-intricate (and currently, quite effective) control net that this deck creates for itself- at the benefit of having a larger beater (that is more deadly on it's own) to be able to swing for the finish.

Also, I am currently assembling this deck irl, yay! I am in the market for:

1x Liliana of the Veil

Any of the fetches

3x Thoughtseize (my previous deck ran Inquisition of Kozilek so I don't have a playset)

2x Abrupt Decay

2x Scavenging Ooze

3x Fauna Shaman

Most of the sideboard.

If you wish to get rid of any of those, I can come to a reasonable offer :3

Also, don't be THAT worried about Blood Moon . :) Most decks hate it. Only expect it in RDW, anti-land/suspend decks, and possibly Zoo and Boros. And it's not like you'll be completed neutered even if it comes down, as you do have numerous fetches, 6 removal sources, and vial to get around it. Stay in scope!

MetaphysicalxProdigy: I don't mind the idea of a singleton of Hero of Bladehold , but what would I take out?

Also, I'm liking the look of Crib Swap . If I read it correctly, with Haakon I can simply keep casting it from the graveyard over and over?

Haha sorry for how long those posts were. Too much MTG floating around in my head I suppose.

I have used both Bladehold and Liege. While Liege is certainly a house, I think your list would better benefit from Bladehold. Yeah, Liege would grant a +1/+1 boon across most of the board and give Pridemage some real love, but I don't think you have enough creatures around to get the most out of this (Haakon, Shaman and Ooze don't really qualify; Ooze is fine on its own). If you had lots of +1/+1 ramp, like Honor of the Pure , Spear of Heliod , Adaptive Automaton , etc. then maybe? But most of the time boosting toughness from 2 to 3 isn't enough to stop bolt, nor will it stop Anger of the Gods (which I forgot to mention is probably the most brutal, anti-junkyard card you are facing right now).

Alternatively, Bladehold lets you break siege lines and close games down in short order. She is an amazing card to reanimate and can give you the aggro finish that you will need in some matches. Don't forget about those free tokens either.

So if you had to pick one, I would go with Bladehold. But you only need 1 in your deck, thanks to your shamans. When evaluating what to take out, don't forget planeswalkers can be countered and burned easily. It's a hard call at this point with such a finely tuned list but I would lean towards taking out 1 Elspeth. With only 20 creatures (and ~6 lacking defensive capabilities) you won't always have an able-bodied critter able to defend her, despite the 1/1 token she can make. You should probably do more testing before you decide though.

That's great you are getting everything assembled!!! Unfortunately my Thoughtseizes and Decays are in use, however I think that I have a set of 4 Fauna Shaman . I'll have to check. I've definitely never sent anything by mail before haha

Yeah... Nameless Inversion and Crib Swap (the blue Wings of Velis Vel is sweet too) can be abused, or "combo'd" with Haakon endlessly. Haakon I think is the only card in MTG that lets you do this. I've never tried it out myself because i've never been able to get my hands on a set of Haakon or any of those changeling instants, but in the MTG Salvation forums some people who run "Darth Knights" lists have reported using it to great effect in a typical modern unknown meta.

MetaphysicalxProdigy: First off: Don't worry about the length of your posts: I heavily value your input, so the more you type, the better :P

I was actually thinking of taking out Elspeth, as the best thing to do would be to replace a wincon with a wincon, or rather- that's what would upset the balance of the deck the least.

Funnily enough, I haven't actually had a huge problem with lifegain, believe it or not. I've played the deck in over 20 matches, and while I usually got within 5, I've won consistently.

My most recent set was against a Boros Burn deck. I ended match 1 with 6 life, but won. Match 2, I side-boarded in my Leyline of Sanctity , managed to get it down on T1, and won with 14 life.

This deck is very 'hurt yourself to hurt the enemy', but I don't have enough evidence thus far to indicate that I'm hurting myself -too- badly.

If you don't have any cards, that's okay. My trade binder isn't huge anyway, so...

MetaphysicalxProdigy: I would probably put in only 1 of the changeling spells. You'd be surprised at how little I actually get Haakon out! (in the last 20 sets, I've made use of him in maybe... 4? The fact that I won 16 of those 20 though- 12 without him-, is def. a good sign for the structure of the deck.)

Well I wouldn't think you would need to cut both Elspeth, as you only need one Hero/Liege, but if you feel she isn't pulling her weight I guess you can always beef up other stuff. As you said, ensuring that a win-con is exchanged for only another win-con is key. And i'll get back to you on those Fauna Shaman when I get a chance to look.

That's good that life hasn't been too much of an issue. I suppose a lot of decks are all-in or focused on some specific objective these days, with a game-ending bomb they combo into. I guess it would be most relevant against tempo decks like UWR control, UR Twin and Jund, where there is still potential for them to just whittle you down to 0. Your list's resilience shows that things are consistent and working well!!

Yeah it seems with only 2 Haakon you may not run into him that often. I always thought it was best to run 4 so you could maximize your odds of drawing him, but I suppose with a tutor you dont need 4. How has Fauna Shaman been working for you? In the few games I played with her years ago, I don't think I was ever able to do anything spectacular - most of the time she would be dead before I could use her ability.

And yah, only consider 1 of the tribal instants, not both (as I did mention in a post earlier). :)

MetaphysicalxProdigy: Fauna Shaman has been... interesting. I've actually come to have the same experience you did: She often dies before she can get truly ridiculous- which makes sense, as no-one in their right mind is going to let a tutor like that stay active.

But funnily enough, she plays kind of a mind game on my opponents, i've noticed. See, when I T2 a Fauna Shaman , my opponent will usually make a very strong, but very false assumption: That my deck is a combo deck, that my deck needs tutors, and that if they can get rid of those tutors, my deck will fail. So, they immediately use Path, or Bolt, or somesuch.

And yes, they kill her... but they often realize too late that they would have been better served Path-ing Haakon, or Bolting Mirran Crusader...

That being said, when she -does- work, oh-ho-ho-boy. I have been able to do some truly stupid things with her + AEther Vial , including Pridemage and Exemplar from anywhere in the deck, instantly casted.

The consistency that she lends the deck is more conceptual than practical, as she's usually nuked, but I do like her. That being said, If there's a better tutor, or better creature in your opinion (THAT ISN'T GOYF OR BOB :< ) feel free to suggest it. :P

That's interesting about Fauna Shaman ! Mind games certainly make sense with her, they probably will expect an elves list. You're right, by drawing out their removal you have a means of establishing other threats later - I think people would be more likely to burn than exile her, so at least that takes a bit of heat off planeswalkers (pun unintentional).

Once the summoning sickness is gone, she really does have that flexibility. You can even tutor out a KOTR and use his ability next turn to fetch Bojuka Bog to stop storm. Pretty cool stuff, it looks like she has a place here for sure.

I don't think there is a better tutor in modern that suits your deck. Next to just beefing up the count of your ideal tutor candidates or running something inferior like Commune with Nature , Lead the Stampede , Congregation at Dawn , Primal Command or Ajani, Mentor of Heroes , I think the Shaman is probably the best choice.

The first thing that comes to mind is Chord of Calling . I'm not sure how much board presence you are generally able to get, and tapping your creatures does hinder your aggressive capabilities, but I think I would try that out over Fauna Shaman for a little while. As you said, the Shaman is a lightning rod and lets you protect your other threats, but it also creates no card advantage and without AEther Vial it's power is greatly reduced, especially since you can't combo with it.

If you do want to play one of the bomb four-drops, the cut I would make is one of the Path to Exile (it's a little worse here, as you are much less aggressive than a Small Zoo deck or Big Naya deck and giving them lands hurts more). This would probably mandate adding a 23rd land (Horizon Canopy ?), and I would remove a Qasali Pridemage to include it.

Pridemage does very little in a lot of matchups, and I'm not sure if I even like it in the maindeck. Kitchen Finks is a pretty commonplace and powerful way to regain some life you lose from Haakon, discard spells, fetches, etc. You could also try out Courser of Kruphix , though just thinking about it the card would not fit amazingly well here.

I agree with MetaphysicalxProdigy that Hero of Bladehold would be much better in this build. My mistake with the Wilt-Leaf Liege . The Liege is a little bit better against Jund decks (Jund meaning the Bob-Goyf-Liliana-Thoughtseize shell) and lends itself a little better to a defensive role, while Hero is easier to cast and is more explosive offensively. I think you would rather have the latter for this deck.

Finally, some words about the sideboard. I think you want more versatility, and by that I mean more one- and two-ofs that are very versatile and make you look like a professional player. Stony Silence or Creeping Corrosion come to mind for Affinity, and Grafdigger's Cage is a solid card in many matchups. Believe it or not, Pack Rat is a sick card against a lot of midrange decks, as Thoughtseize into a Rat is almost as good in Modern as it is in Standard. I highly recommend you try it out, as my Junk midrange deck has had some success with the card. A different setup in terms of philosophy, but nevertheless it's cool tech to have access to.

Well, that post got longer than I expected it to. Sorry about the reading, I know that the average Internet user doesn't like it very much. :)

MetaphysicalxProdigy: She also synergizes quite well with Haakon, as I don't have to feel too awful about discarding a Mirran Crusader to draw the big guy.

I've noticed that most of the other tutor cards that are effective in Modern need a large mana dump Chord of Calling , etc. so I think this would be a better way to go. I'm gonna run a bunch of playtests with a 1-off of Hero of Bladehold , in place of an Elspeth. I really adore the card.

I'm also gonna try a 1-off of Crib Swap as well. If I get that kind of engine in place with Haakon, between that and the discard from Lili, it would be extremely difficult to escape from such a chokehold.

Also, if you try out Chords, make sure you're playing the M15 ones. The Ravnica ones are obsolete.

thispersonisagenius: I don't mind reading at all. I'm very inexperienced at this game, so the more information I get, the faster I learn!

I've thought about Chord of Calling , I really have, but I just don't get that many creatures out. A previous build of this deck ran it, and it was usually a dead card :c

Fauna Shaman was actually my second choice.

I really like the idea of Kitchen Finks here, (a previous version of this deck ran it with Mikaeus, the Lunarch ), and I suppose I could see the Qasali Pridemage s sideboarded for it. Their inclusion is a reaction to the fact that the deck had a very weak matchup vs. Affinity.

I like the idea of Creeping Corrosion for the sideboard, I'm still building it up. Grafdigger's Cage , however, would probably hurt me just as much as it hurts my opponent.

Yeah, I was about to suggest Stony Silence as well before I caught myself. The censor apparently wasn't there for Cage.

My issue with siding in things like Hushwing Gryff and Gaddock Teeg in a non-Pod deck is that they make a very small impact. In Pod, you have a lot more access to your gamebreakers out of the board, whereas in other decks it's less so, even with Fauna Shaman here. That's why a lot of decks have to play cards with more wide-ranging applications, so I think the Gryff and Teeg are doing less than a sideboard slot should be expected to. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is an example of a card that does a lot for a single slot, and can come in a wide range of matchups. Choke is another card like this.

thispersonisagenius: Do you think I should switch out Hushwing Gryff for Torpor Orb ? The sideboard is something that I need as much help with as possible.

I thought about Chord of Calling as well, but it seems a little heavy for this deck. One that I did completely forget about, however, was Beseech the Queen . The heavy BBB cost is probably far too heavy for a tri-colour list, though... If you end up having to pay 2BB to cast it then it's just a worse Diabolic Tutor .

thispersonisagenius: I agree with your suggestion for some side changes, however I'd hesitate to just auto-include Finks as an alternative to the Pridemage.

Starting with my former remark, I agree that both Teeg and the Gryff be replaced. I would also cut one Maelstrom Pulse - this creates 6 new slots. I agree that adding 1-2 Choke would be excellent, and 1-2 Torpor Orb would also work well. There may be superior options to these, but I think adding +1 Thoughtseize for disruption and +1 Wrath of God or Damnation would be perfect for those matches where you lose board control. In any remaining slots, I would consider any number of Extirpate / Memoricide , Duress , Dismember , Tectonic Edge , Linvala, Keeper of Silence or even a sword.

I played a guy earlier on MTGO today who used Persecute against my WW Knights list on T4 and made me discard 4 creatures. I had never seen it before so it came as a shock, but it holds huge merits against mono-decks - especially merfolk and mono-black control. I'm willing to bet it has strong applications vs hatebears and pod as well. Maybe consider one of those?

As for my disagreement with taking out the pridemage - let me share my rationale. First, I think that this deck is uniquely positioned to use it, a little moreso than your standard Bears, Zoo or Bant list would. This is because the maverick engine, at its core, incorporates the pridemage with more flexibility than finks, in the sense that it provides a better defense against Round 1 auto-losses than Finks can. Finks is always relevant in that it can hold off your opponents creatures/sacs and net you a bit of life, but it doesn't go much farther in terms of utility. You're not going to tutor it up to stop Wurmcoil Engine .

Pridemage alternatively serves its purpose most optimally in probably only 60% of games. The difference is when he goes off, the impact usually has much greater ramifications. Affinity, Pod, Tron, Twin, D+T, Bogle, Infect, Merfolk... All of these are common matchups, yet how will Finks save the day, other than possibly buy you a bit of time? I think the effect of bombing any affinity card, a Daybreak Coronet , AEther Vial , Birthing Pod , Splinter Twin , etc is big enough to change the course of the match. Yes, Finks has a ton of great matchups against Jund, UWR, rock, scapeshift, living end and others but I don't think it can turn the tides as effectively. Sure, the instants and sorceries already present could potentially stop or harm an opponent's strategy, but we have more control opportunities this way and as a creature he still fits.

Other than circumstance and generally killing artifact creatures and enchantment creatures (i.e. Courser of Kruphix and Eidolon of Rhetoric ), there are some other advantages. First is that your enchant/artifact removal isn't taking up slots in your side, thus freeing up some space. Second, it's on a solid pair of legs. Exalted with Mirran Crusader is nuts, and even if you don't need its activated ability in the first round you can sub out it with ease round 2. Worse case, you have a 2/2 with exalted. Third is that it can be safely discarded via Fauna Shaman or Lilianna of the Veil if it is irrelevant in the match. Fourth, and also very important, is that adding in a bunch of Finks will further distort the mana curve, giving a heavy predominance of 3 drops in the deck. Getting flooded with 3 drops in your opening hand is possible when they compose 17 of the deck's 38 spells. I don't think it would be wise to have the only 2 drop permanents be a few Ooze and Shamans.. at least not with 22 land.

Please don't think that i'm hating on Finks or that i'm underestimating its power. I have played against it countless times and its popularity in modern speaks for itself. And I do see your point of how Finks can help stall or eat removal. If there were to be a compromise, I think the deck could probably drop a Pridemage for a Finks, and maybe add Disenchant to the side. Just gotta be wary of the curve, IMO.

Want a two dollar bob Dark Tutelage is an enchantment with that exact same ability. Also idk if this artifact is modern legal (half oof the ones i see in edh are not) would be Howling Mine because lets all draw a card can be not so bad unless your draws remove more of their stuff completely. And why not run Green Sun's Zenith and Black Sun's Zenith to help pull out your knights an ooze. Also i could see Elvish Piper like cards being useful for your deck to help cheat out major creature threats. Would jerad, golgari lich lord be useful for your deck? Since your knight will get huge and when you sac her he deals tons of damage to the opponents

MetaphysicalxProdigy: This is some excellent feedback! There's another card I was thinking of for sideboarding... what was it... Oh! Sadistic Sacrament !

Thoughts?

(I will actually be travelling most of tonight and tomorrow, I will be unable to respond to stuff until tomorrow night. Apologies.)