Vos_Is_Boss says... #2
No way dude Champion of Lambholt is what wins me games! Her and Thatcher Revolt are game enders. Its so fun. Not to mention if its late game and i drop a Thatcher Revolt followed by a Kessig Malcontents . That alone nets me 5dmg from Kessig Malcontents hitting the board, more if i have more guys (which i always do) Champion of Lambholt gains 4 counters and i swing in with the team.
October 16, 2012 4:21 p.m.
I really like this deck idea. I am considering adding red to my G/W humans deck, Champions of Avabruck, so I can do this as well. Unfortunately, I do not have a Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , Instigator Gang Flip , or Bonfire of the Damned to throw into this deck. Do you think it would still work well without those cards?
I was curious about your opinion on a couple cards in your current deck. I was not sure if you thought Gavony Township was too slow for this deck. Perhaps Kessig Wolf Run would work better? Also, have you thought about running Hamlet Captain in place of Instigator Gang Flip ? He costs two less to play as well as his attacking or blocking effect boosting all of your humans with +1/+1 rather than the +1/0 you are currently getting. I guess it comes down to how quickly you can flip Instigator Gang Flip because if he flips the extra effect really does help out a lot! I look forward to hearing your feedback. +1
October 18, 2012 12:46 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #4
@PTsmitty
The Instigator Gang Flip s were actually a late add-in to try and test. Ive been in situations where i felt "Hell yeah, i could use another creature to buff my attackers and win". Essentially, along with Mayor of Avabruck Flip , Instigator Gang Flip was in there (as a human too) give the extra damage to everything else even if he doesn't attack. Mostly for Champion of Lambholt however.
Champion of Lambholt is the card that gets me through to win 90% of the time. Cards like Huntmaster of the Fells Flip (2 creatures 1 card) and Thatcher Revolt (3 creatures with haste) make her piercing ability superb.
When i think about it, Hamlet Captain could be better in some cases. I honestly haven't tried it, but perhaps i shall this friday. Instigator Gang Flip is in there because its a bigger creature, as well as the flip potential, and buff potential for when Mayor of Avabruck Flip flips (which is surprisingly often). Hamlet Captain can be better defensively, and offer a faster buff for Champion of Lambholt a lot sooner.
I dont like Bonfire of the Damned in this deck. So i dont think you need it.
1: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben makes it cost more when i probably dont want to spend it anyway.
2: I dont care how many creatures they have. I will win the race because my creatures will be unblockable with Champion of Lambholt
Kessig Wolf Run would be better if i had a single powerful creature that needed trample. And i see how it could work well with Champion of Lambholt , however, i prefer Gavony Township because it gives the counters to ALL of my creatures. By turn 5, i usually have lethal on the board, and nothing feels better than dropping Gavony Township as my 5th land, use it to buff all my creatures, and swing in unblockable because Champion of Lambholt just got enough power to let it happen. Ive won that way so many times that i didn't even consider a different option.
Now, as for your question about needing the cards you listed... Bonfire of the Damned could be skipped. Instigator Gang Flip probably has better replacements. Hamlet Captain is a really good choice. But... Huntmaster of the Fells Flip is, probably, the 2nd most important card behind Champion of Lambholt Ive found. I really think you need him to make the deck spike in awesomeness. his abilities say it all. He is life gain, he is token generating, he gets trample and burns the enemy and a creature they have. He is almost a necessary card for this deck.
As far as a replacement for him, i would suggest something as simple as Gather the Townsfolk or maybe even Daybreak Ranger Flip Those were cards that were last minute rejections because Huntmaster of the Fells Flip was just better.
The ideal play is something that can help Champion of the Parish or Champion of Lambholt
October 18, 2012 2:14 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #5
Many of my friends asked why i didn't just make it green white and splashing red for Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , but i soon learned that red gives me access to all the cards that essentially win me the game. So if you're going to add red, think about how many of these cards you want to use, if you don't want to match my current build....
Thatcher Revolt (must)
Kessig Malcontents (surprisingly very very good, often hits for 3-6 when dropped)
Lightning Mauler (leave unpaired until i get Odric, Master Tactician or Instigator Gang Flip or Riders of Gavony
Anywho, I'm really passionate about this deck, so if any of this doesnt make sense to you, or you have more opinions, please let me know so i can develop your and my own understanding of the format.
October 18, 2012 2:14 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #6
I'll be recording my FNM tomorrow and record on here how this deck played out against my opponents.
October 18, 2012 4:21 p.m.
I can tell you are passionate by the lengthy response you gave, and I thank you for that. I am relieved to hear that I do not need Bonfire of the Damned to make this work. A lot of people play that card at my local shop so borrowing one from someone may be hard to do. I am very interested in making this deck because I do not think my Champions of Avabruck deck is aggressive enough to beat my opponent before big creatures start coming out.
Currently all I am missing are 3x Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , 1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , 2x Instigator Gang Flip , 2x Selesnya Charm , 4x Temple Garden, 1x Rootbound Crag, 2x Cavern of Souls, and 4x Clifftop Retreat
Right off the bat I was thinking I could use 1x Silverblade Paladin in place of the 1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and replace 2x Instigator Gang Flip with 2x Hamlet Captain . From there I am hoping someone has 3x Huntmaster of the Fells Flip that I could barrow to finish a quick construction of the deck.
Not too sure what I should do about the not having any Temple Garden s or Clifftop Retreat s. I do have 3x Selesnya Guildgate and 1x Chromatic Lantern that I could use. I was thinking 2x Selesnya Guildgate since they come in tapped no matter what and two basic lands. I will just have to play basic lands in place of Clifftop Retreat until I can get them. What is you opinion on having 4x Cavern of Souls ? I currently have two, but do not have the money to throw down to complete a playset. I guess it kind of depends on what the players at your local shop plays. A nice, but often tough aspect about my local shop is that everyone's decks tend to change week from week. They do not show up every day playing the same deck. Thankfully they like to change it up!
Looking at your feed back again, I noticed you said you use Lightning Mauler for pairing with Odric, Master Tactician , but you do not have him in your mainboard or sideboard. With that being said, I was thinking a good land fixing card I could add is Borderland Ranger he is a human that will allow me to fetch any missing land that I need. I am curious now, can I use his ability to get a Cavern of Souls or any other land that is just described as "Land" or do I have to one that says "Basic Land". Anyways, if Lightning Mauler can be replaced I was thinking 1x Hamlet Captain and 3x Borderland Ranger . I was also thinking 1x Burn at the Stake since I feel I will be doing enough creature spawning to make it worth it.
Wow I have typed a lot! I will let you go for now so you can look over what I have written.
October 18, 2012 4:33 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #8
You do not need Bonfire of the Damned . You do need as many Cavern of Souls as possible, as they are part of your red mana source for your humans. That goes with saying for Temple Garden . Gatecrash isn't out yet, so we don't have the luxury of using Stomping Ground or Sacred Foundry yet. However... Temple Garden is needed... as it makes all our other dual lands come in untapped. I suggest getting as many dual lands as you can.
Replace Instigator Gang Flip with Hamlet Captain = good
Replace Thalia, Guardian of Thraben with Silverblade Paladin = good enough, however thalia is super good against most decks that aren't all creatures like ours.
Do not use a Chromatic Lantern that just slows you down more, and its not a human :P. I would just try to look at your mana and run Mountain s, Forest s, and Plains if you don't have the duals for them. You could try guildgates... but I'm unsure how useful they will be, coming in tapped every turn.
As far as Odric, Master Tactician goes, i ran him a few times and he was decent, but i wanted to test other things and forgot i didn't put him on my list up there. Borderland Ranger is a very good suggestion. if you run those basic lands, you can fetch them without fear. However, basic lands only. Forest s, Mountain s, Plains . So, if you don't want to run Lightning Mauler , which i wish you could :P, that substitution you have above seems good to me. However... putting Burn at the Stake in this deck is just silly. You wont have that many red sources consistently. I'd rather you run Brimstone Volley s to do burn once they kill a human.
October 18, 2012 4:52 p.m.
I had a feeling you would say the dual lands are important. I guess I will have to make due until I can get some. I will definitely find something to replace Burn at the Stake because I was worried about not getting the three red mana sources to play it. It was just a thought that seemed like a good idea at the time, ha! Perhaps adding another Thatcher Revolt or Selesnya Charm or Kessig Malcontents . I will have to work on getting another Thalia, Guardian of Thraben since I am not running many spells it will not hurt me as much as it will my opponent.
One thing that keeps running through my mind is that Gather the Townsfolk would be better than Thatcher Revolt just because the tokens will stay on the battlefield after my turn. I know it is one less creature to boost Champion of Lambholt but I won't have to wait to get 6 manna out to play Kessig Malcontents with the Thatcher Revolt . It will also make it more dangerous late game because my human count much higher with the tokens still out there. I guess it is hard for me to determine since I have not played this deck yet to see how it plays out or to see how quick it can be.
I have updated my deck Champions of Avabruck if you want to check it out at all. I will probably keep editing it as we are still discussing options I can use since I do not have all the cards to make your deck exactly.
October 18, 2012 5:13 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #10
Its a personal preference to use Thatcher Revolt . I like the haste, its something the opponent isn't ready for, and the humans wont be sick for a turn, letting the enemy decide how to handle them.
Its up to you, though. I'm constantly working on my deck, so make changes and test them out and let me know!
October 18, 2012 5:24 p.m.
Yeah, I will keep play testing the way my deck is currently constructed, and give feedback if I am able to barrow the 3x Huntmaster of the Fells Flip to play this deck when I go to a tournament next Tuesday. I am interested in hearing how you do tomorrow night. Thanks for all the help in explaining the deck and figuring out what I can replace and need to make sure I have.
October 18, 2012 5:42 p.m.
Hey, I am working on figuring out cards I want to include in my sideboard and was wondering when you usually rotate in the cards you have as well was what you take out. I read you reasoning for Zealous Conscripts and Knight of Glory , and was thinking you are playing Kessig Cagebreakers in case you play someone with board wiping spells. Also, Oblivion Ring is an obvious sideboard card for any deck that includes white in it. So is Pillar of Flame for when you play against zombies or anything that has undying? What decks do you usually bring in Fiend Hunter against? Do you usually take out the same cards all the time when rotating either of these cards in, or does it change based on the match-up? I am still working on my skills when it comes to selecting a sideboard and selecting what to sideboard out for the cards I have. Your feedback is much appreciated. One last thing, did you go to FNM this week? How did you do?
October 20, 2012 9:17 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #13
Yo. Well, unfortunately, i misplaced my beautifully orchestraded turn list that i documented last friday. So i'll try to wing it by memory. There were only 4 rounds (per usual at the local i go to) and i played against Selesnya Tokens, Rakdos RDW, American control, and Bant Midrange.
The selesnya token deck i managed to 2-0. The first game was pretty solid, i landed every combo in turn order and did fairly well. Started with Champion of the Parish moved into Mayor of Avabruck Flip , Champion of Lambholt , then dropped Lightning Mauler and Thatcher Revolt respectively and dished out some crazy damage by turn 5. However, the first game he just made a shitload of centaur tokens. Blocked a bunch, while he could. He had Collective Blessing on the field at one point, right before i could tap 7 for Bonfire of the Damned (i drew it turn 2 dammit). So i couldnt board wipe his field for the win. Instead, with his lack of removal, i was able to flip a Huntmaster of the Fells Flip and flipped a Instigator Gang Flip and all 9 of my creatures were more powerful than his 7 6/6 centaurs. I got damage through and finished him off with Bonfire of the Damned .
The second game i won on my turn 5, his turn 4. He didnt play anything to stop Champion of the Parish . I side boarded in some War Priest of Thune for his Collective Blessing and Growing Ranks but it wasn't needed.
The second round was very thrilling to me. As i am an avid aggro fan. On friday morning i posted a RDW on my profile. Thinking, all the haste is excellent with boardwipes being mainly on the miracle draw or sorcery speed ( Terminus Supreme Verdict ) The cool thing is, i played that exact deck game two. Talk about a race. I ended up losing 1-2 but the races were on full speed. Only 1 turn decided who would win each match up of swining all in every turn. He had the upper hand however... the mainboarding of Pillar of Flame was brutal against my deck. I'd play a champion... it would die. shit. Recover... play another chamption and a Lightning Mauler . swing. his turn. Pillar of Flame sonofabitch. I managed to combo him game 2 for 14 damage when he had 14 life left and it felt pretty good. Thatcher Revolt putting counters on Champion of the Parish and Champion of Lambholt is pretty sexy and he was shocked. However, in the end, the lack of removal (i sided in fiend hunter to avoid the burn spells and be able to block his weenies and the pillars of my own, but didnt see any) is what cost me the game as his deck was a little faster.
I probably would have won the 3rd game, but i also didnt draw a red source land to play my Thatcher Revolt or Huntmaster of the Fells Flip to sustain.
October 22, 2012 9:01 a.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #14
Round 3 was just dumb, American control. 1-1-1. You kidding me? I hate control decks. Something about taking forever, not being able to do anything but make sure your opponent does nothing for 20 minutes somehow doesn't seem like magic to me. I'd play 3 creatures and get them miracle Terminus ed. I'd recover, drop 4 more (hand empty by now) and have them verdicted on a supreme scale. First game took a whole 6 minutes because he didnt land a Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and i stomped him with the Thatcher Revolt fun. Game two lasted a solid 40 minutes of him stopping me from doing a thing. I dropped threats every turn, and he scrambled to deal it it. He finally managed to get the Tamiyo emblem, and then i was boned.
This deck has the most trouble with board wipes. I did side in Kessig Cagebreakers however, along with War Priest of Thune to deal with Detention Sphere s and shit, and i swung in with Kessig Cagebreakers and 8 wolves. He then Think Twice d into a Terminus and i cried a little. Lucky shit.
We drew the 3rd game and i was slightly upset. Its been awhile since Ive been 1-1-1. He was 0-0-3 and laughing. (he did end up going 0-0-4 that night, so im kind of curious if that wasnt his intent.)
The 4th round was a blowout. 2-0 in 10 minutes. He tried to stop me with with Thragtusk and Azorius Charm both games, but the haste-ness of Lightning Mauler and the craftyness of Zealous Conscripts allowed me to get through without a worry. I never over commited, so when the turn 6 Terminus came down, I played a Champion of the Parish , Lightning Mauler and Thatcher Revolt and swung in for 10 to eat him alive game 2.
All in all i wasnt really suprised. The matchups went as expected. I beat the midrange decks that were a little unfocused, i struggled with the control match up, and an all out aggro deck lucked out at my mana deficiencies. I didnt play zombies, or any black deck, so Knight of Glory didnt really come in to play at all. But the Oblivion Ring against control (taking out Selesnya Charm ) and the Fiend Hunter against RDW (taking out Thalia, Guardian of Thraben ) were some of the best moves i made.
October 22, 2012 9:13 a.m.
Thanks for the feedback. I know that our two shops will not be the same, but it helps to hear what some people are playing. Sounds like I need to be ready for spot removal with Supreme Verdict and Terminus . That sucks because those cards can really ruin this deck. I may have to hold back a little bit like you did so I do not over play my hand just in case one of those cards are played. If those two cards are played a lot at my local shop then Thatcher Revolt would be a nice card to play due the extra token and haste. I was curious how you used Fiend Hunter against RDW? Sorry, still a little new to magic so not sure how that deck typically plays out. Also, since enchantments could be a problem as well do you think War Priest of Thune or Sundering Growth would be the better play against them? I guess I am unsure of what artifacts being played right now that would be a problem. If there are no serious artifacts being played I would think War Priest of Thune since it will help boost both the Champions. I plan on going to a tournament tomorrow night, and will let you know how I did if I am able to get the cards I need to finish the deck. I am hoping someone will lend/trade me the Huntmaster of the Fells Flip s and I can buy/trade for the remaining Selesnya Charm s I need.
October 22, 2012 9:48 a.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #16
Well good luck to you!!
My reasoning for Fiend Hunter against a red deck are a few little things. They have proved effective while play testing against friends, but have yet to prove it in a tourney.
Fiend Hunter is a 1/3 human cleric. He buffs both my champions, and has a solid toughness to fight most of the rakdos aggro cards. Ash Zealot , Rakdos Cackler , Rakdos Shred-Freak . Also against most burn spells that ive seen RDW run. Electrickery and Pillar of Flame . I dont see many aggro decks run Mizzium Mortars (which would be a good answer for Fiend Hunter ) so i feel save playing him.
He steals a creature, and blocks the rest, Not a bad deal. However... it becomes a little bit more difficult to manage when the enemy drops a Stonewright . Alone it doenst seem too grand, the firebreathing ability never really was. But thats when you had to play something to make it possible. Stonewright comes in and gives it to himself and another creature without any set up and hes a one drop. And putting it on Ash Zealot ... not even fair. Thats the only fear i'd have with a Fiend Hunter is trying to block someone who would gladly use the mana to save a spell and take out my guy to get theirs back. Granted, there are better removal spells for 3 mana (Oblivion Ring ) that they wont get rid of, but against that deck, im more interested in the race, and even 1 point of power will help me get there.
October 22, 2012 10:19 a.m.
So I want to make sure I correctly understand your logic behind playing Fiend Hunter . You use them mostly against decks that utilize the speed that red provides by exiling the more powerful creatures of your opponent and preventing their smaller ones from attacking since it is a 1/3 creatures, correct? I would originally sideboard Oblivion Ring , but like you said about getting the extra boost from the creature helps out a lot. This deck is made more for killing your opponent fast before they even have a chance to get anything big set up. So technically playing Oblivion Ring would slow me down because I would not be boosting either of my Champions.
October 22, 2012 6:30 p.m.
I didn't read through the comments, but I would say Selesnya Charm should be up to 4. You need Rancor s for permanent, continuous pumps to your creatures. Drop a Champion of Lambholt because she's going to either be removed or you're going to end up with more than 1 of her in your starting hand. Which is bad, due to the 1 and two green cost. Mizzium Mortars and Pillar of Flame are great removal, since the Mortars beat most instances of the Entreat the Angels and smacks Geist of Saint Traft right in the face. Populate decks can get hit hard as well from the Mortars, and the Pillar wipes out both Zombies and weak chump blockers. Sideboard Oblivion Ring and mainboard Fiend Hunter . If you're facing heavy destruction, it might be worth considering card:Angel of Glory's Rise since she can be fielded then locked down with your Fiend Hunter. Gather the Townsfolk over Thatcher's Revolt since you can take advantage of the tokens for chump blocks, they get pumped from the Mayor of Avabruck Flip , and for enchantment/artifact removal you can use Sundering Growth and get +1/+1 counter triggers on both Champions. Nevermore is your answer to Terminus , Detention Sphere , and Sever the Bloodline . I would downscale your Lightning Mauler count, since your big hitters need to be on the field for a bit to get pumped. Zealous Conscripts in the mainboard, nothing like snatching a Tamiyo before she ults. Mayor of Avabruck Flip should be at 3, you need more Silverblade Paladin and your sideboard should definitely contain Knight of Glory . I'm personally a fan of Elite Inquisitor in the mainboard due to how strong it can be just with a Rancor hitting for 4 and deterring attacks from it's First Strike. If your meta has plenty of Supreme Verdict you should consider Rootborn Defenses in the sideboard at least. Finally, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben should be 2 mainboard, 1 sideboard against control decks. I don't have Huntmaster of the Fells Flip so I don't know how much good or bad he could do, but you can't honestly go wrong with him. I would leave him at 2 or 3 at the most. And consider another card:Avacyn's Pilgrim, because people love picking off your mana dorks.
My Naya Humans deck is on my profile, or can be found with this neat little link.Champions of Naya
October 22, 2012 9:38 p.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #19
The goal of this deck is to win by turn 5 (which i do all the time) Thatcher Revolt is far better than Gather the Townsfolk in this deck because not only is it 3 humans instead of two, but they have haste. They put counters on Champion of the Parish and Champion of Lambholt and its staggering how much of a difference it makes. 6 extra damage with a mayor on the field (Owch), 3 counters for both champions making them way more powerful than any creature an enemy would have at that point. Forcing the chump, or just flat out killing them quickly.
card:Angel of Glory's Rise is an interesting concept, since in a control matchup my graveyard has a crapton of humans. I opted for Kessig Cagebreakers instead and its yielded surprising results. Whether the enemies just didn't have removal or not, i cant stay, but swinging in with 8 extra wolves (every time) its just a gg.
I used to run Elite Inquisitor and the double white wasn't always there, and i had to change my mana base because getting a red source was the largest frustration for my deck for the longest time. I decided Knight of Glory to be the pro-black/zombie card to run, as they cannot remove it.
Rancor is going into my deck shortly.
October 23, 2012 9:03 a.m.
soccerdude240 says... #20
I like the way the deck is looking, and I can't wait for Gatecrash. Stomping Ground and Sacred Foundry will allow you to put Ash Zealot back in the deck.
October 24, 2012 12:02 a.m.
Well, I was unable to barrow the three Huntmaster of the Fells Flip prior to the tournament starting tonight, but in between rounds I was able to trade for two in between rounds. I also was able to get two Rootbound Crag s so I may be able to drop the Borderland Ranger s for something more aggressive. Any good suggestions? I hope to play my deck the next time I go to a tournament so my feedback will have to wait until then.
October 24, 2012 12:48 a.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #22
Lightning Mauler does work.
Fervent Cathar has been a new interest of mine. Although probably not as reliable. Getting past that Desecration Demon or Thragtusk is good in theory though.
As always, Thatcher Revolt is very cute. I have no loss of love for that card in a human deck.
You may consider other humans like Elite Inquisitor or Precinct Captain with the first strike, or, a better solution to pack more of a punch every turn would be Rancor . I really think Rancor should be in every aggro deck, and this deck is no exception.
If you're confident with your mana base, take out the Borderland Ranger s and throw in some Rancor s if you havnt already. Because who cares if your creature does to Supreme Verdict or Terminus (not dying, but whatever) or Pillar of Flame . Rancor will always come back once you play it.
October 24, 2012 9:04 a.m.
I think I will use your advice on Rancor . It would be a really simple card to play as well as giving an early boost to Champion of Lambholt to help her allow me to swing early. I will probably sideboard Pillar of Flame because I am sure it would not hurt to have some burn spells to work in. After playing last night I feel this deck will be an interesting play. I have a feeling Champion of Lambholt will be killed quickly after hitting the board or even unsummoned once she has been pumped up. I am thinking my other cards should hopefully keep me in it if that were to happen.
October 24, 2012 9:13 a.m.
Vos_Is_Boss says... #24
If people still run Unsummon its because they cannot move on from the delver deck, which died. However... an enemy killing Champion of Lambholt is almost expected. Because, if they don't kill it, its going to kill them, and quickly. This is why i run other threats like Mayor of Avabruck Flip , Silverblade Paladin , Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , and Champion of the Parish . If all are left unchecked, they do the job, and they do it well.
Throw a Rancor on any of them and they are that much more deadly.
People underestimate how much damage a 3/1 or a 4/2 can do each turn if left unchecked ;)
October 24, 2012 9:25 a.m.
I built my girlfriend a UR Delver, and I have to say that it definitely isn't dead.
hickit says... #1
I would go Selesnya (I Run it) and take out the lambholt if you go Selesnya or not, 2 greenis bad and it is just not a good card.Also, take out the rootbound crag, sunpetal grove, and clifftop retreat if you are only running 1 forest, mountian, and plains.
October 16, 2012 4:09 p.m.