I like the way you build this deck. Perheps I will build a similar Lazav deck. Thanks for the inspiration.

Foil would probably be a decent replacment of Force of Will if you are still looking for a free counter. Nyxathid could also be a nice addition to this deck.

Thanks for the suggestions!

The problem with Foil is that it rips two cards from your hand. In a deck that doesn't have many ways to produce "clean" card advantage (apart from Phyrexian Arena and Rhystic Study), this can be a remarkable drawback. I still think that Misdirection and Pact of Negation are more preferable, but I do see its potential.

As for Nyxathid, I included it in my initial build of the deck. Being a 7/7 is very important because it represents a 3-turn clock, but apart from that there aren't many other reasons to want it in the deck. It doesn't have evasion nor trample and it costs three mana to copy, which makes Phyrexian Dreadnought, Hunted Horror and Eater of Days strictly better. I can see it as your "plan D", but I don't think you need it that bad. You can consistently get the three aforementioned creatures whenever you like, so I would not include any other.

Have you considered running Monastery Siege instead of Search for Azcanta?

I honestly think it's even better for when you have a card in hand that you want to discard, but you don't have a discard outlet available. when you're in this situation it essentially draws you 2 card, and lets you discard something you either don't need, or something you want in your graveyard.

Monastery Siege is a card that I was considering when I was building the deck from scratch. I do agree with you that drawing and then discarding is significantly better than the surveil 1 of Search for Azcanta  ^Flip.

There is, however, a big issue that kept me from including the Siege in the deck. The Khans ability is mandatory, it's not a may. With the enchantment on the table, you will have to loot every turn. This won't be a problem in the early game, when you will have plenty of cards to discard. In the mid to late game, however, when you will have fewer and fewer cards in hand (this deck doesn't generate too much card advantage, since we are mainly looting) and your creatures will already be in the graveyard, choosing a card to dump will be painful. Imagine a situation where you have two counterspells, a removal spell and a land in hand. Generally speaking you want as much mana as possible to activate Lazav more than once each turn, so the land won't be an easy discard. This means that you will have to get rid of a spell, and that's a real pity because they are very useful. On top of that, this unpleasant situation will happen again every subsequent turn that you have the Siege on the field. Overall, I think that the enchantment will end up doing more harm than good.

Search for Azcanta  ^Flip is less explosive, but much more efficient in the long term. We can sculpt the top of our deck for our first turns of the game, and once the enchantment flips we have an extra land that can help us dig some extra cards to find the answers we need.

A cool suggestion indeed. The only problem is that it will be very hard to catch an opponent off guard with it since it will be in plain sight in your graveyard. If they see you have a Phyrexian Obliterator in the bin, they simply won't attack into you. If you want to use it offensively, they won't block. For this reason, it can be seen as ": give Lazav unblockable". This is a little too expensive, especially if we compare that to our other evasion tools (Invisible Stalker, Dimir Infiltrator, Looter il-Kor, Key to the City). If you want an element of surprise, you need an instant-speed way of putting the Obliterator into the graveyard (Entomb, Key to the City), and this seems a little too clunky in terms of mana management for a one-time blow-out. My deck tries to be as mana-efficient as possible, but I can see the Obliterator included in other lists that have a bigger focus on cool combat tricks.

Pardon my English. Congratulations on the deck. I wonder if you have played with it and what your performance against competitive decks. Thank you very much.

Hi and thanks for appreciating!

It depends on what you mean by "competitive decks". If you refer specifically to the cEDH meta (decks like Food Chain Tazri, Jeleva Storm, Zur Doomsday, Thrasios & Tymna, Breakfast Hulk or Blood Pod) then the answer is no, my friends and I are not interested in this variation of the Commander format. If, however, you mean strong, optimised decks with powerful cards in them, then the answer is definitely yes. My personal metagame is all 75% decks: cards like Force of Will , Mana Crypt and Mana Drain are all over the place. I usually play against explosive/control decks such as The Locust God , grindy decks like Muldrotha, the Gravetide , aggressive ones like Edgar Markov and even fast combo decks like Food Chain Prossh, Skyraider of Kher and Teysa, Orzhov Scion . In addition to that, my friends have started including lots of "sideboard" cards in their maindecks to deal with decks such as mine. As a result, I also have to face multiple Rest in Peace s and Nihil Spellbomb s in every game.

So, how does my deck perform in this scenario? Quite well. Of course I'm not winning every single game, because as I have said the other decks at the table are all very powerful. One thing I have noticed in these months of playtesting is that no matter how fast my opponents can be, I am always faster. If I want to kill an opponent before he or she can combo-off (therefore, by turn 4 or 5), nothing can stop me from doing so. The way I have built the deck, it is very easy for me to have one of our lethal combos ( Phyrexian Dreadnought + Vector Asp , Ornithopter + Crackdown Construct or even Wall of Blood ) available very early in the game with some cheap counterspell like Force of Will , Misdirection or Mental Misstep to save me from removal. Very few decks have the tools to deal with such nonsense. This is, however, not your ideal gameplan in a 4-player game. You would waste too many resources while at the same time leave yourself vulnerable to disruption from the two opponents left. Oftentimes, then, you just want to play the slow game until you have more mana and resources available in the late game. As a result, I generally don't even play Lazav until turn 5 or 6 (unless I have a Cavern Harpy in my graveyard to save him from removal). I tend to leave mana open in the early game for some counterspells, and then start committing more stuff to the board once I'm sure I can protect myself. In the meantime, hopefully my opponents have started damaging each other. Do keep in mind that this is a deck that shines in 1v1, sometimes 1v2. You have very few chances if three opponents gang up against you. Having a 12/12 on the board on turn 2 will likely put a target on your head, so that's why you generally want to wait until one or even two opponents are already out of the game to expose yourself. This strategy has given me a lot of success so far, so that's the one I recommend to you.

Hey, I've tested your Lazav deck against my Lazav deck Kill and Run (Lazav) in a mirror match. What I liked was there are many good ways to set your commander online with acitvating his ability. There are different cards in both decks, like you are really going deep into the draw/discard theme while my deck has more cards to get a safe board state or that I'm using the Surveil-mechanic more often.

But they have many things in common like some fatties to pump up Lazav ( Phyrexian Dreadnought ). The control theme does work very smoothly in your deck, there are enough counter spells and destroy effects in it. With your average CMC you may be able to cut some lands. Strenghwise both decks are nearly at the same power level, in my opinion around 8 of 10. We know that Mana Crypt , Lion's Eye Diamond or any of those high end cards would rise the strengh of this deck, nevertheless for playing casual (and not competitive) this is an awesome deck. Congratulations.

My suggestions are well minded and are the following:

1. High Market : Another way to get creature cards from the battlefield into your graveyard
2. Pact of Negation : Also in commander a staple card, far better than Negate or Arcane Denial (both cards are also playable, for sure)
3. Mesmeric Orb gets you value in your graveyard
4. Hibernation Sliver is interesting to put it in instead of Cavern Harpy , because the sliver has no triggered bounce ability printed.

Those are just my thoughts, but anyway this is yet a nice deck. Well done

Hi thom-le and thanks for your kind words!

I've also had a look at your deck and compared it to mine, and they are indeed very similar. I particularly like your inclusion of Enhanced Surveillance , so much so that I'm considering adding it to my deck. The extra surveil on Lazav, combined with the ability to protect our graveyard at instant speed and for free, makes for a really handy tool. Your suggestion of cutting some lands is also something to be considered, although I like to have as much mana as possible with this deck to transform Lazav multiple times.

As far as your specific suggestions are concerned, they are all appropriate. However, with all the draw/discard I have included in the deck, I never find myself casting my creatures. They hit the graveyard by just being discarded, without ever hitting the battlefield. As a result, High Market isn't that necessary and Hibernation Sliver would be slightly worse than Cavern Harpy . If I could afford an extra colourless source, however, the Market would be an easy include due to its great utility (e.g., saving your commander from a Control Magic -type of effect). Mesmeric Orb is something I'm a little hesitant about, due to the random nature of self-milling. You could end up discarding something you need. Pact of Negation is a counterspell I really like, so I will be testing it for sure.

I have a couple of questions regarding some of your card choices, but I will be asking them on your own thread. Thanks again and let me know about any significant changes in your list, because I'm really interested in your ideas. Cheers!

Love this thing.

Working on my own build, using your list as heavy inspiration. I love it, and can't wait to kick ass with it. Do you have any budget options for some of the higher priced cards? If you'd be so kind to check my deck out, I'd appreciate it. It's Dirty Shapeshifting Tactics.

What are your thoughts on Archmage's Charm could be handy as a utility counter spell. What about Dimir Charm , which can be used to get rid of pesky, small creatures, take care of a sorcery, or manipulate either your or your opponents top deck. And Force of Negation seems like a perfect card to have in the deck.

Hi!

As far as budget alternatives, here are my suggestions:

• Mana Crypt : you can either go with a Thran Dynamo or the upcoming Arcane Signet . You do lose the option to kill a player on turn 3/4, but those rocks will serve you well in the mid to late game.

• Ancient Tomb and Minamo, School at Water's Edge can be easily swapped with basic lands.

• Rhystic Study can be replaced by Mystic Remora , but it is a little suboptimal. You could consider Necropotence , but the cost is quite hard to achieve.

• Training Grounds has a weaker, but less expensive alternative in Heartstone .

• As for the more expensive tutors, like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor , you can go with their cheaper counterparts like Diabolic Tutor , Beseech the Queen , Dark Petition and Final Parting .

• Cyclonic Rift : you can go with an Evacuation .

• Damnation and Toxic Deluge : these are hard to replace because we don't have too many options that do what they do for the same mana cost. You could consider something like AEtherize or Whelming Wave .

• Mana Drain : you don't really need it, as you can safely go with Countersquall .

• Force of Will , on the other hand, is very hard to replace. Whatever you choose to include instead of it won't be the same. You want Will because you can tap out and still have a response, therefore something like Arcane Denial would be suboptimal. At the same time, another "free" counterspell like Foil won't be ideal because it rips two cards from your hand instead of one. The only decent option, I think, would be Pact of Negation , even though it's more useful as a protection for game-winning combos instead of player-OTKs.

• Intuition is another card that is incredibly hard to replace, as it's one of the 2/3 best cards in the deck. You could go with a Corpse Connoisseur , but I recommend you to get a copy as soon as possible if you enjoy the deck as it is one of the best upgrades you can make.

• Phyrexian Dreadnought , unfortunately, cannot be replaced. It's the key card of the deck. No other creature is that powerful for such a low CMC. Nyxathid and Eater of Days are a few options, but they pale in comparison with the Dreadnought.

As for your suggestions, I kind of like Archmage's Charm for the utility of its second mode. The only problem I have with it is its mana cost which can sometimes be awkward, making the spell not always consistent. I don't really like Dimir Charm . It's first mode is rarely useful as oftentimes we want to counter removal spells directed to Lazav during our turn, and those are almost always instants. The second and third modes are okayish, but other spells do the same things better. I do get that this is a versatile spell, giving you the option to do three different things, but I believe that dedicated spells will serve you better. If the first mode gave you the option to counter an instant spell I would consider it, but as is it's not ideal. Also, I'm not a huge fan of Force of Negation in this deck. The moment you want to be able to counter spells is often during your turn, when you are trying to kill a player and that player is trying to disrupt you. In that case, Force will be useless as it won't be free. On the other hand, it's also true that if you manage to kill an opponent, chances are you are forced to tap out. This leaves you vulnerable to disruption during the other players turns, and in this case Force will come in handy. I don't know. I'm not fully convinced, but I could change my mind.

I will be checking your own deck and give you some feedback!

What do you make of the new Hypnotic Sprite , if not optimal, as a budget option. Works well as a counter spell with evasion attached once it's in the yard.

Have you seen anything else spoiled that got you excited in Eldraine previews?

Hypnotic Sprite is too cumbersome for what it does. If you use the the adventure part, the creature goes into exile instead of into the graveyard. From that point, you have to cast it and then have it die for Lazav to copy it. This is too much work for a card that just gives Lazav flying for , as we have better options that cost less mana. Even the counter ability of the adventure mode is suboptimal, as it costs three mana and only targets three-or-less CMC spells. I think a handy, cheap creature with evasion or one of the more classic counterspells will serve you better, even if you are on a budget.

As for the other spoilers from Throne of Eldraine, I haven't seen anything particularly good so far. Clackbridge Troll got me a little excited because it has both trample and haste stapled on a single card, but five mana is a little too much for us and our opponents can just tap him with little to no effort. Let's hope WOTC prints something playable, but we won't get another Phyrexian Dreadnought . The deck works well as is, therefore we would need something really incredible to be even considered.

Good points. Completely forgot that it goes into exile after sending it on an adventure.

Also one of the downsides of Necropotence other than casting cost here is it makes all your discard outlets worthless.

Hey man hope you see this. I like the deck, I did the commanders quarters budget deck and was impressed. Now I want to make big upgrades, but some cards listed are out of my budget + I do not want that infinite combo of crackdown + ornithopter. If you see this, some feedback would be appreciated! https://archidekt.com/decks/292662

You could go more all in on stax as a way to stop interaction. Since after you've got your commander on board and the ability to throw stuff in your yard, you don't really cast spells too much apart from protection.

Damping Sphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Defense Grid, Mana Web type spells make you much harder to interact with while you punch face.

Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone and Crawlspace don't affect you at all, but can stop people sending retaliation hits your way after you kill an opponent.

Generic stax like Null Rod, Grafdigger's Cage and Torpor Orb have the potential to absolutely hose your opponents and do almost nothing to you.

As far as non-stax pieces go, Karn, the Great Creator can get back any of your ARTIFACT combo pieces that have been exiled. Nothing better than winning with your Dreadnought after someone has exiled your graveyard. Mystic Sanctuary is an island that can get you a counterspell/tutor back after you use it.

I'm tempted to build a deck similar to this, but with a couple sneaky Lab Man wincons just incase.

Hi _Putrefax and thanks for your suggestions!

I see where you are going with your stax pieces, but it is not necessarily the direction that I want to take. Damping Sphere does not have that much of an impact in Commander, apart from hurting storm strategies. Thorn of Amethyst has a similar effect, but it hoses me even worse. I have very limited mana resources, and every single mana is extremely important for me. I like Defense Grid a little bit more because, as you said, it makes me much harder to interact with. However, I am not a huge fan of these symmetrical effects. I have many instants in this deck, and the grid neuters my ability to interact with my opponents.

I really like, however, Mana Web. It either slows my opponents' gameplans or limits their interaction. Most importantly, it's effect is asymmetrical. I don't get hurt by it, and I like it a lot. I will be considering the Web for sure.

I have never had a great experience with either Meekstone and Crawlspace. Every time I have played those cards, they have never had that much of an impact on the game in my favour. I have never thought about Ensnaring Bridge, but I guess it makes sense. I can control Lazav's power at will and I don't have too many cards in hand, so it's worth the try.

Null Rod is actually unplayable for us. With it on the board, if Lazav ever becomes an artifact creature (and he will, considering our wincon creatures are artifacts), we won't be able to activate his ability again as long as the Rod stays on the board.

Karn, the Great Creator's effect is, once again, asymmetrical and can be taken into consideration. I particularly like his -2 ability, which is probably our only way of getting back any of our win conditions if they ever get exiled. I don't have too many available slots, but I hope I can squeeze it in somewhere.

As for Mystic Sanctuary, I admit I had underestimated it. One of my friends actually won a few games thanks to it, although with a completely different deck (Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow), where it makes even more sense. Still, I can't get around lands that have the chance to come into play tapped, and lands that must be considered more like a spell. To give you an example, I hate Bojuka Bog so much so that I don't play it in any of my decks. If I want graveyard hate stapled on a land I go for Scavenger Grounds, despite it being symmetrical. This is because Bojuka Bog, like Mystic Sanctuary, is more of a spell than a land. In the early game, I simply can't play them because it would be a waste. This means that, if in my first few turns of the game I have three lands in hand and one of them is a Bog or Sanctuary, then I have virtually just two lands. And if I am forced to play them immediately, it's a huge tempo loss since they come into play tapped. These kind of cards need to be drawn at the right time, otherwise they will be stuck in hand for an indefinite amount of time. Scavenger Grounds, on the contrary, can be played immediately with no downside and can be activated whenever we need. Of course I am not playing Scavenger Grounds in a Lazav deck, but this is just to explain you my line of thought. For these reasons, I would rather play Snapcaster Mage or Mission Briefing over Mystic Sanctuary.

I am really curious to see what Laboratory Maniac wincons you will be throwing in, because I kind of need an "I-Win-The-Game" emergency plan. Can you please link your build once it's ready?

Thanks again for your suggestions. Cheers!

The difficulty in using Lab Man in this deck is that almost all the quick combos just exile cards, so you're kinda neutered if it goes wrong. But you could pretty easily throw in Lab Man, any cheap creature that has an ability to draw a card somehow, and Demonic Consultation and Tainted Pact.

I probably wouldn't go for that win unless the traditional wins have been shut down somehow, but if they are the combo would be as follows;

• Lazav as a copy of a creature that somehow draws a card, be it activated ability or triggered somehow doesn't really matter.

• In response to the draw ability, cast Pact or Consultation to mill your whole deck.

• In response to the draw trigger again, activate Lazav to become a copy of Lab Man. Make sure to hold up your protection for this spot here so you don't kill yourself

Any thoughts on using fetch lands to thin the deck out?

Yes, absolutely. Never been a huge fan of fetchlands in 1-2 colour EDH decks due to their price and their marginal impact, but it would definitely be an upgrade. Not a one I would necessarily make, but if I had some I would include them for sure.

Thank you for the reply, I'm absolutely in love with this deck. I think I'm going to try it in my play group eventually, and we allow proxies. Are there any other changes you would want to make to upgrade the deck if money wasn't an issue?

I've been playing Lazav, attmpeting to make a highly optimized anti-competitive lost, and have got this, let me know what you think

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lazavs-assassination-contract/

That's a good question. The deck is already pretty high-tuned, as you can't find any better alternatives to the likes of Mana Crypt and Force of Will, which are already included. Maybe you could go deeper on mana acceleration to make your turn 2-3 kills more consistent, but I wouldn't go for that route as the deck would become more all-in than it already is. I'm talking about the cEDH staples Mox Diamond and Lion's Eye Diamond. These cards will allow you to knock one player out by turn 2 with a godlike hand, but at a very high cost: your entire hand. After that, you would be defenseless against your other two opponents.

Some upgrades I would definitely make are Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor, which are the two best tutors apart from Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor. I would also like to experiment with a good old Yawgmoth's Will, as a way to get more value out of the draw spells we already cast.