VaalVanir You can use Dualcaster Mage in order to to copy any spell multiple times if you have an instant flicker effect such as Cloudshift . First just cast whatever card you want to copy, hold priority and then cast Cloudshift targeting Dualcaster Mage . Once the flicker effect resolves then Dualcaster Mage will hit the field, and his ability will trigger on the stack, target the spell you cast at the very start and it will copy that spell. Both that spell and Cloudshift will be sent back to your hand in order to do the same thing next turn. This works extremely well if you have a bunch of guys on the field and you target Zada, Hedron Grinder with a draw spell you want to coppy like Expedite , that way you will hit every single unit on your field with 2 draw triggers. Getting you 8-16 cards.

ChibiNature But Zada, Hedron Grinder requires you to "cast" the spell onto him. So the copied Expedite targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder will not result in copied again for each target-able creature.

VaalVanir oh yeah good catch lol. You can still combo it with a lot of stuff. Doubling your Wheel of Fortune effects when you have Smothering Tithe will basically win you the game right then and there. Or doubling your tutors like Gamble is extremely powerful. Dualcaster Mage being a recurable spell cloner has been very nice so far.

I put together a list for feather pretty quick when I saw her, kind of surprised you had some of the same ideas I did when building by the looks of it! Makes me feel like I might actually be on the right track

Besides the fact I didn't realise Flashback worked here at the time, your list seems a lot more refined than mine being a quick brew, and I have no idea how to be building R/W to be honest, it'd be nice to hear your thoughts https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/feather-hot-take-1/?cb=1556822390

Generally for this list, I guess I just wonder how cute playing stuff like Guttersnipe actually is, I haven't played it yet so I'm uncertain if it's actually helping to win or if Aetherflux Reservoir is just enough on it's own.

Other than that my main difference of take I think is I'm thinking of taking her more in the Staxx-y direction, mostly because I wonder if playing R/W we simply have to lean toward slowing the game down enough that we can actually compete with the better colours, but I might just be underestimating Feather and selling short the Storm ability. Which reminds me; Grapeshot seems like a perfect fit in the storm-y version, since you can target Feather with the first instance to get it back and do some dumb stuff probably.

Shitney Glad you've been playing Feather as well ( ^-^) ill check out your list in a second here.

And in regards to Guttersnipe and similar cards, I am actually leaning away from them as of late. They are cute cards, and they've been winning me games here and their. But I'm willing to bet I'd be better off without them, and opted for more Stax pieces. Or more card draw. I am currently running through some final tests with the deck, and trying out a few cards like Skullclamp and Faithless Looting . But I'm willing to say that it is a safe bet that the Guttersnipe type of cards will not make the next wave of changes.

And you are totally correct about needing to lean towards stax. We are not as fast as other top tier decks, that's the bottom line. Red gives a cEDH deck very little, so we are forced to pull some of the better stax pieces out of our white color pool to bring others down to our levels. You'll be surprised how many turns you can slow down the opponent with a little 2 mana thorn in their side.

Grapeshot I did not really like, it's a funny card but on average we are only casting 2-3 spells a turn until we are able to combo off all at once. And once we get that far than we dont need Grapeshot at all. That 2 mana for grapeshot can be a very precious resource when it can draw you two more cards with some of our cantrips.

ChibiNature I feel Panic and Heal may not be the best fit in this deck.

I understand that you are looking for spells to cast to up the life gain from Aetherflux Reservoir but Panic requires a combat phase, and Heal only gives you a draw on the next turn.

May I suggest switching out Panic for another 2 cast cost instant that draws you a card, I can't recall the names right now. And switching out Heal for, maybe, Niveous Wisps or, again, another 2 cast cost instant that draws you a card.

This is just how I feel about Panic and Heal .

ChibiNature Question: Do you find yourself wanting Zada?

I find myself wishing that I had Zada on the field for many of the draw spells, and even Soul's Fire .

I'm considering on adding Goblin Matron to the deck.

VaalVanir Panic work just fine for the deck because while it does require a combat phase, it can be used on ANYBODY'S combat phase. So it doesn't really matter. As long as it can be cast every turn it does its job. And if I was going to switch out Heal for anything than it would be Niveous Wisps , needing to tap your own creatures is kind of annoying tho. I believe it would be more likely for me to have BOTH of those cards in the future. but so far between the two, I've found them not all that different from eachother in usefullness. So I wouldn't fault anybody for using either. Unfortunately tho, switching it for a 2 mana draw spell is not worth it. The instant draw effect is nice, but it then also costs twice as much. So we can think about it as "Would you rather draw a card now, or draw 2 cards next turn. I personally would almost always go for two cards next turn. Especially when we are playing these draw spells on the enemy's turn more often than not, so it doesn't really matter when we draw the cards since there is a high chance we wouldn't be able to play the cards until our turn anyway.

And yes, having a more reliable way to get Zada, Hedron Grinder on the field would be nice, but adding a card that finds ONLY him is a bit much. Cards like Goblin Matron would be a lot more solid of a consideration if we had more goblin cards, like the Goblin Welder I am currently testing. But adding a card that works with only 1 of the 99 is doomed to fail, unless we can very easily find the other card (for example Magnetic Theft and Sunforger ) So if you so end up trying out Goblin Matron I suggest you go a little harder into the artifact support cards and add things like Goblin Welder as well, at the very least.

ChibiNature I would love to watch a video of you running this deck. Maybe I will get to see new routes to take.

VaalVanir I was going to go into a LOT more detailed with card choices and a primer once I got some freetime on my hands in the future, and a lot more practice with Feather, the Redeemed . I could try and add a video to that as well :D

Glad you're interested :)

ChibiNature Thoughts on Thalia's Lancers ?

Can tutor for Zada, Hedron Grinder , Paradox Engine , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , and Inventors' Fair (Can't believe Mox Diamond is not a Legendary).

And you can Cloudshift , Otherworldly Journey the Lancers for repeat value.

VaalVanir Thalia's Lancers definitely isn't something I considered before, honestly I had read it as "Legendary Creature" and completely ignored it lol. It looks promising, I'll give it a try :). Although I do not run the flicker cards so I wont be able to get repeated value outside of Eerie Interlude . I might cute something like Memory Jar for the lancers but I am not fully certain yet.

Precursor Golem ? Or is that irrelevant without enough flicker

I feel like removing Phalanx Leader takes away some synergy from Dreadhorde Arcanist and Runaway Steam-Kin . I know it’s not a combat based deck, but are you fine not pushing those two?

abrutalpanda yes Precursor Golem is indeed fairly irrelevant without enough flicker effects. Also our most common flicker/protection effect is Eerie Interlude which kills all of the golem's tokens every cast. And the loss of synergy when removing Phalanx Leader has been totally fine. The vast majority of the spells that Dreadhorde Arcanist hit are 1 CMC, and when you ever need to hit something bigger then Sunforger is a usually ready available buff for it. And Runaway Steam-Kin is also fine since a lot of what we cast is 1 cmc red spells, and he'll generate 3 red mana so it pays for itself when doing that. It doesn't always play out that nicely but he does more than enough in order to get the ball rolling without Phalanx Leader

Makes sense, part of this deck is to really avoid CMC instants over 1

I know you gave your reasons for Oblation , but I feel like it’s such a great card, especially if you have tokens.

Also, bear with me here, how do you feel about Stuffy Doll &/or Silverclad Ferocidons ? Sun Titan is our pricey card, but these guys give you a fun target to pin instead of Feather or whatever

Also, thoughts on sacrifice in general?: Silverclad Ferocidons , Crack the Earth , Misguided Rage

Also, beating a dead horse with Phalanx Leader , Anax and Cymede , and similar pumps... we have the ability to really pump tokens with Young Pyromancer , Launch the Fleet , Monastery Mentor , Akroan Crusader , and Vanguard of Brimaz

Is pumping these cards too far away from the main point? Would they combo well with Zada and Mirrorwing?

Also, add Goblinslide to that list

Any thoughts on the scry benefits from Tenth District Legionnaire or Burning Prophet . Tenth probably not because it needs direct.

(Mostly bothering you because you’re actively play testing and making changes)

TwinStags aka 'abrutalpanda': It is starting to look like you're trying to do too much with Feather, the Redeemed Focus on 1 or 2 of your playstyles, or else you won't be able to fit all the cards necessary to make any of the play styles work properly. ChibiNature actually chose the strongest playstyle for Feather, the Redeemed which is spell casting and utilizes the synergy pretty well, even if it does take 4 to 5 cards to go off

Valid VaalVanir, I’m mostly asking because it’s a new deck/concept based around a card that just got released. What’s your opinion on each of these cards?

TwinStags You are correct in saying that Oblation is a really good card, I wouldn't fault anybody for keeping it in the deck. And it will most likely always be in the "maybe" section of the deck at the very least. It might float in and out of the list as more testing gets done going forward.

Stuffy Doll I do not like for a couple of reasons. One is he locks himself to a single opponent, which to me just makes himself a worse version of Guttersnipe since in EDH there is 4 players. And secondly is that we really dont run a whole lot of damage outlets outside of Aetherflux Reservoir . There is a few cards here and there, but hardly enough to warrant the inclusion of a support card for it. Silverclad Ferocidons is bad for a similar reason, in that we just dont have the damage pinging support for it, but also he is LUDICROUSLY expensive. At 7 mana we should honestly be looking to combo into a victory, not play with fun cards. Cards like Sun Titan work well at such a high mana cost because he is best friends with the most powerful card in our deck Sunforger , but outside of that you should be looking to close out the game once you get to the higher mana costs. Not play goodstuff.

In regards to pumping strategies. It just isn't good enough. Our deck already runs about .5-1 turns slower than the other cutthroat decks thanks to the lack of card support for Boros. And combat/pump strategies are even further behind that. Imagine it as giving the opponents a free Time Walk or Time Stretch every time you play. It really sets you off on the the wrong foot. Matches that I actually managed to pull off any pump combos in order to win were almost always due to luck. Like I'd either get the perfect stax piece on the board early, or they enemies invested too many resources to shutdown another player in order to handle me. But it just isn't consistent enough to warrant running. And as a side not since you asked. cards with "heroic" like Akroan Crusader do NOT combo with Zada, Hedron Grinder or Mirrorwing Dragon . You can only target 1 with the initial spell, so in the end, all heroic cards are anti synergy with some of our more powerful combo pieces.

Scrying is nice, but not really good enough. We really only care about card draw when it comes to getting card advantage. Any sort of scry effects we get are just tacked on to already good cards like Gods Willing . Any card that scrys for us I'd rather just replace with something that draws us a card.

Hope this helps :)

TwinStags Here are the cards you want opinions: Oblation Stuffy Doll Silverclad Ferocidons Crack the Earth Misguided Rage ( Phalanx Leader Anax and Cymede tokens with Young Pyromancer Launch the Fleet Monastery Mentor Akroan Crusader Vanguard of Brimaz ) Goblinslide Tenth District Legionnaire Burning Prophet and I'll give you my opinions.

Oblation : This is a great card! For 2 and a White you exile a token and get TWO LANDS!! VALUE!! Until you run out of basic lands to fetch. Then you're getting rid of 1 creature threat at a cost of giving two lands to only ONE of your opponents. ChibiNature's explanation for getting rid of Oblation is higher up on this thread. But Oblation only does so much for 3 CMC. Compare to other spells that is in this deck, that is also 3 CMC, Oblation is a clear choice to cut. BUT, if you are going the TOKEN route for your EDH deck then this is good. Not great, only good.

Stuffy Doll Silverclad Ferocidons : These two are basically the same effect, hurt them and they hurt our opponent. So the question becomes 'How many 'Direct Damage' spells are we going to run? The answer: Not enough. These two cards do not justify the amount of direct damage spells we need to run to kill our opponents.

Crack the Earth Misguided Rage : These cards have no synergy with Feather, the Redeemed , there is no value because we can't replay these cards unless we do graveyard recursion which is a host of other cards that is NOT in Boros colors.

Phalanx Leader Anax and Cymede tokens with Young Pyromancer Launch the Fleet Monastery Mentor Akroan Crusader Vanguard of Brimaz ) Goblinslide : This is actually a good idea, make a bunch of tokens and just spew all over our opponents faces. This is probably the 2nd best way to play Feather, the Redeemed . It does need a lot of setup and luck in drawing your creatures and spells. I can see an aggro deck that snowballs very fast. You'll be enemy #1 very fast. But can you bounce back after a boardwipe? How many turns will it take for you to rebuild your army of tokens? What about the balance of number of creatures to number of pump spells? How are you going to protect your tokens from being wiped?

Tenth District Legionnaire Burning Prophet : Scrying is nice. Drawing is better. For example you cast a spell onto Tenth District Legionnaire and you scry and decide to keep that card on the top. What happens to the next spell you cast onto Tenth District Legionnaire . If it is a pump spell, then it's better to cast it onto Zada, Hedron Grinder and pump ALL your tokens instead of only Tenth District Legionnaire . The same argument goes for Burning Prophet as well. My opinion is that Burning Prophet is better than Tenth District Legionnaire

You are missing two other ways to play Feather, the Redeemed . Have you looked into Flicker playstyle using Cloudshift and Otherworldly Journey ? Have you seen Zealous Conscripts and Stonehorn Dignitary ? Imagine casting Cloudshift onto Stoneforge Mystic ! ProTip: Use Zealous Conscripts to grab an enemy creature, then cast Cloudshift onto the creature you stole... that creature is now yours until it dies, not until end of turn!

TwinStags There are 4 ways to play Feather, the Redeemed as your commander. 1. Spellslinger 2. Tokens 3. Flicker 4. Heroic creatures. (These are in order of best to worst, in my opinion).

Take your pick of two of these and you will have a "fun/casual" EDH deck.

Stick with only one of these for your deck to be more competitive.

Stick to Spellslinger if you want a EDH deck that requires you to understand the deck to tutor the cards you need at the moment all the while trying to get enough Mana Rocks + Paradox Engine + Aetherflux Reservoir + Sunforger on the board in the fastest time possible so you take out each opponent in the next round. (This is actually pretty stressful if you ask me, everytime I play this deck my heart pounds like I'm walking a tightrope). Just look at how many routes I can take to get those things on the board! The tutor section should show you the different things that this deck can pull from the library, let alone Sunforger can pull like 50% of the deck!

It seems like you're still deciding on how to build a Feather deck. All the guides online are saying things like "Look at this combo, and look at that combo" but the combo's are probably different playstyles from each other.

Find out which playstyle you like playing the most, that will give you the edge over other players.

Dank, thanks for all the info VaalVanir/ChibiNature

Im confused by what you mean by Oblation and two lands. It’s just draw two cards?

In my head I totally thought we had more direct damage cards for Stuffy Doll & such. Even if we did, it’d be really relying on getting him out. Or adding Boros Reckoner and Spitemare . Even then it’d be a whole side route of watering the deck down

I just realized the sac cards don’t work with Feather and Akroan Crusader / Vanguard of Brimaz don’t bounce with Zada/Mirrorwing. Do you think either of those are worth keeping in... or is heroic mostly a waste when you have Zada/mirrorwing at your disposal?

I’ve seen play styles of all the types at this point but agree the Spell slinger and token are the strongest.

TwinStags I would be more than willing to say that Heroic cards are not worth keeping in. They'd need to have a REALLY good heroic effect in order to warrant a slot in the deck. The only cards that are similar to heroic that deserve a spot are Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor because they dont need to get targeted, which let's us be a lot more flexible with how we can combo out.