Still not sure how this allows us to cast spells, though. (Same applies for Mirror+Night of Souls, and the Archetype/Spotlight).
Boseiju, Who Shelters All? Wait, does't Teferi make it impossible to cast any spells because we are on your end step? (Ah, nevermind, we can kill him with Engineered Plague).
I think Knowledge Pool allows a better lock than erayo, because it doesn't counter spells.
December 6, 2016 1:02 a.m.
aholder7 The assumptions are as follows:
All cards listed above are on the battlefield. If your method requires me to have additional cards on the field, exiled, in hand, in my library, or in the graveyard, I will; otherwise, I have no other cards. You are correct in saying that this board presence requires all the pieces in place with no intervention from you, but in return, I'm not interfering with anything you're doing. If I had to play everything individually it wouldn't be much of a challenge, would it? ;)
You can have any cards you want on the field, in your hand, or in any other zone, within Vintage limits. You may arrange your deck however you see fit. The cards I listed that can beat the lock, and any others, may be currently present on the field; you can assume you have casted them previously.
This is a theoretical exercise, not a situation I realistically expect to come up in a game. I'm subjecting everyone to the whims of my own entertainment.
December 6, 2016 1:03 a.m.
Engineered Plague works, I missed that one. Nice work, Bovine073.
December 6, 2016 1:07 a.m.
you can cast a Council's Judgment and copy that with Nivix Guildmage any number of times. council, does not target, and nivix could theoretically be replaced with any other repeatable copy effect as it gets around Rule of Law. this only requires nivix be on the field and to have an arbitrarily high amount of mana. (you could also do this with finite mana and get rid of a few problematic cards as well, but i assume you are looking for full on breach here).
December 6, 2016 1:16 a.m.
Nice thought, aholder7, but Nivix Guildmage is shut down by Mycosynth Lattice + Stony Silence .
And yes, the more you can blow this thing up, the better.
December 6, 2016 1:25 a.m.
Bovine073, can you find a way to take advantage of the fact that Erayo's Essence counters? Boseiju, Who Shelters All is interesting, but it's another activated ability negated by Mycosynth Lattice + Stony Silence . Also, Angel of Jubilation prevents the life payment.
December 6, 2016 1:32 a.m.
aholder7, Will of the Council does create exploitable openings that can be followed up on. It works.
Two breaks in half an hour. I need to work on my in-depth, high-quality research...
December 6, 2016 1:47 a.m.
How does Will of the Council make a break when you can't cast spells or tap lands?
December 6, 2016 1:50 a.m.
I'm listing Will of the Council under the Mirari catalyst card. Mirari uses a triggered ability to copy it without casting the copy.
I should also add that the my implication for "any board state you want" may also include floating mana. As I type this, I realize that Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir prevents instant-speed casting, so you need to have a mana floater like Kruphix, God of Horizons or Omnath, Locus of Mana.
December 6, 2016 1:57 a.m.
Alas, PhotogenicParasympathetic, but unless you have something more to add, Gaddock Teeg rejects your proposal.
December 6, 2016 2:42 a.m.
Will of the Council should be Council's Judgment above. If you ever read this, Feywald, your deck just got some free advertising.
December 6, 2016 3:35 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #15
Archetype of Endurance, so your creatures have hexproof too. A card like Cyclonic Rift still hits you tho. But I think you can't go arround it.
December 6, 2016 3:52 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #16
I think Cyclonic Rift is the only card that still gets through, excvept with a Chalice on 2. (the cmc is always 2, even when it's overloaded. So Gadock doesn't work)
December 6, 2016 7:46 a.m.
zephramtripp says... #17
Another enabler is Djinn Illuminatus because the copies are not cast from replicate.
December 6, 2016 8:47 a.m.
zephramtripp says... #18
Also, does anything stop the cycling of Decree of Pain to kill all the two toughness creatures?
December 6, 2016 9:18 a.m.
Well given enough mana you can un-morph Bane of the Living removing all the creatures after which you can deal with the other lock pieces on their own.
December 6, 2016 10:09 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #20
So every card that doesnt use the stack is still a problem.
December 6, 2016 10:10 a.m.
zephramtripp says... #21
Another set of possibilities arise from a Starfield of Nyx in play with a well stocked graveyard, mainly Darksteel Mutation. Also, Teferi's Realm can mess with your stuff.
December 6, 2016 11:35 a.m.
Sphinx of the Final Word is a great enabler for things like Cyclonic Rift.
December 6, 2016 11:47 a.m.
chaosumbreon87 says... #23
OK i think these work but i'm making some assumptions.
I have Upwelling that resolved before and floated mana from boseiju. Have fun with an uncounterable spell of cmc 3 or less. sphinx of the final ward helps too.
assault suit+abyssal persecutor- game goes to time technically breaking the lock. Same way if I can donate you an abyssal persecutor. sigarda's aid can attach it if I can flicker the suit
unblockable Hellkite Tyrant
flip thing in the ice
for reference knowledge pool is sometimes better than erayo's essence since not many cards get over teferi+knowledge pool or rule of law+knowledge pool. Uncounterable spells get over the essence.
December 6, 2016 11:52 a.m.
With any board state, I can have a resolved Humility. Your lock doesn't work then. I can even get it out post-lock, but I have to have already cast Enduring Ideal because every other version would be a copy not an actual spell so it dodges your auto-counter. From there its really easy to overwhelm you with Enchantments (which Theros gods count as). Also a Karn Liberated Ult would mess you up pretty badly. If I have a blank boardstate then sure this works phenomenally.
December 6, 2016 12:56 p.m.
Okay, let's see how many of these I can address.
EpicFreddi I believe that if multiple people control an Archetype of Endurance, they each negate the other's hexproofing. Also, my creatures have hexproof from Leonin Abunas + Mycosynth Lattice . Cyclonic Rift is listed under Mirari as a card that can get through.
zephramtripp: Djinn Illuminatus does work as an enabler. I'm not sure what the ruling on Decree of Pain would be, since it's still an activated ability, but Mycosynth Lattice doesn't turn cards in hand into artifacts. I'm going to tentatively say that this works. I believe that Darksteel Mutation + Starfield of Nyx does not work, since even though you're not casting the enchantments, they still need to target. As for Teferi's Realm, if you choose artifacts or creatures, it creates numerous openings. It's going in the list.
Rothon: Good call on Bane of the Living, but it's one I had already noted.
Iehovah: Sphinx of the Final Word does get through Erayo's Essence. A couple of people have suggested adding Knowledge Pool alongside Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, which would protect against this. Deck update in the very near future.
chaosumbreon87: As just mentioned, I'm going to officially switch Erayo's Essence for Knowledge Pool. Boseiju, Who Shelters All + Upwelling will act as a catalyst without it. With Abyssal Persecutor + Assault Suit , I didn't make any provisions for time, but the ultimate result is that it's not a loss for me. I like the thinking, though. How are you going to get the Hellkite Tyrant around Blazing Archon? Thing in the Ice Flip works at the moment, but I'll give you credit when I add Xenograft.
I wasn't expecting this many responses this quickly. Looks like everyone likes a chance to poke holes in stuff :) Keep the ideas coming!
aholder7 says... #1
so theres some questions i have in regards to this. are we assuming that you have the lock set up already? if so what can we have on the field at the time of lock? because everything you listed as a way to beat your deck requires it come down before the lock is in place. so what are the limits? i mean we could Mirrorpool copy any spell that exiles all permanents.
December 6, 2016 12:45 a.m.