You're going to have to find something better than Progenitor Mimic , or have some 'extremely' convicting points against mimic for me to 'even' consider replacing him. He is one of those cards that, in my eyes, is 100% awesome, perfect for this deck and will be in there without question.

Karn Liberated costs one extra, no colored mana(helps keep things more consistent), and also exiles lands(or anything else). On top of that, he will totally wreck your opponent. If he comes out when they have nothing to defend themselves. He also can't be controlled easily and doesn't rely on having anything else in play.

Birds is really good, and I agree with your points. With the addition of rain of tears, I believe him to now be the superior card.

hmmm, I like Karn Liberated . I remember tron decks using him a lot...(couldn't use it against me har har)

I like him, my only negative point on him is that I can't search for him. I have also considered Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for similar reasons, karn is better though for my purposes, but I can't search for it. Are their plainswalker 'and' creature search cards like Primal Command (except plainswalker as well as creature?)

Yeah, that's the only big negative I see. Maybe try adding Primeval Titan ?

(in case your wondering, I'm literally sitting here play testing all day until I have class in several hours)

What are your thoughts on Woodfall Primus ? I can get him out turn 5, with the help of Arbor Elf , and get Progenitor Mimic on him. He has a lot of goodies, persist, destroy land, 6/6 trampler...I am deciding on a replacement for Numot, the Devastator . If I use Woodfall Primus , than I'll add an elf or two...

Does a creature coming back from something like persist or exile get haste? I feel like they do...

hmm, Primeval Titan looks good, but... I don't know. He clears my deck of lands...increases quality draw rate, mana ramp...thinkin

Seeing this deck reminds me of my favorite mono green card:
Plow Under
For five mana, they lose all of their lands, and they lose their next two draws to something useless because the lands are just going to get destroyed. Does this deck function on only 19 lands? It seems a bit too little for a deck that wants to be casting Wurmcoil Engine .

Well, miracleHat, this deck is a freak of nature...

It gets its big guns out around turn 6 average...because of the mana ramp. Somehow it operates with so few lands, but also take to account that there are 9 mana ramps. So as long as I get 1 green land, I can access 9 mana ramps which is quick access of 28 mana. At the least it is equivalent to having 28 lands...

But even if I don't get the mana quantity I need cast my big stuff later, what's the enemy looking like:

1, possibly 2, mana

little or no critters that were 1 drops for their later combos that will never get out...

I can wait 'till turn 10 or 16 if need be. I just have to keep hitting lands and they stay in their crippled state, which ain't hard. (it really never takes more than 10 turns to get my tanks out to finish them off, plus the turns fly by quickly because they aren't doing anything.)

I have been considering Plow Under . It has been suggested to me before and I have been thinking about. I am leaning on the side of using it, but what would I replace... not Acidic Slime , he is to essential...

I honestly don't see the point in Batterskull . Your life total doesn't matter especially when they aren't able to cast anything. otherwise, i dunno...

Don't use plow under, if they have only one land, then you have to put one of your lands on top of your library.

I gave my opinion, Tiktacy gave his, you choose nickiru.

Miracle, batterskull one of the strongest 5 drops in the game. He is almost completely uncontrollable, gives you life, and blocks to give you more life. He is an unstoppable juggernaut of a card. Their is a reason he is used so much in sideboards.

well, I at first didn't like Batterskull . Especially if I am against red/aggro or buff decks, I need some life gain to protect me from the nibbles of small, 1 cost critters and burns. My health is fragile because of my heavy dependance on shock and fetch lands. Also, Batterskull can be make use of my Birds of Paradise if the little critter it was attached to dies. Then I got a flying, 4/5, vigilance, lifelink, creature swinging.

Also, I can protect Batterskull . There is a lot of anti-creature that people use, so it is nice for being an artifact. When the enemy trys to destroy the artifact, I can call it to my hand for 3 mana at instant speed. Then toss it back out again later.

I like it...

wish i could search for it...but it still nice

With Plow Under ... well it would be nice in this case:

Occasionally they get a second land out because I ran out of lando or something, or they went first; though I sometimes get two lands destroyed in one turn. If I were to draw a Plow Under a little later, then those two lands are put back on their library, giving me, basically, another turn. I am not sure. I guess I'll play test it and see how it works...

what about Woodfall Primus ?

8 is too much IMO, try to find something at 6 or 7.

not really, I get him out turn 6-8 while enemy is crippled. Arbor Elf helps a lot with it... 9 mana, is definitely too much, 8 is just at my maximum.I get Progenitor Mimic on him consistently which makes an unstoppable combo of generating persists and land destruction every turn. (also he is a 6/6 trample)... I like it a lot, in place of numot at least but...

May I have you do a favor? My friend kylothian is trying to make a nasty control deck and would like your expert opinions...

Sylvan Primordial is probably better, as it costs 1 less, and also ramps you to rub it in their face. I also think Terastodon is better than woodfall, as it allows you to clear out their lands, and once you're done get 1 or 2 3/3 dudes yourself. (I still think the cost is a bit much), and you still have to take into account people who will remove your birds, or use Tectonic Edge on a sprawled land.

Yah, i know about Tectonic Edge . It hits me occasionally, but it replaces my land for a land so I am only at a 1 mana loss if it were enchanted... I have play tested against many who had it and it really isn't too damaging.

I considered all those other big guys... The reason I took Woodfall Primus is because he has persist. I don't need mana ramp or 'massive' lando like that all at once; just one land upon entry is enough. I just need a tank that 'will' survive a destroy target creature thingy. Plus, it's a win when I get Progenitor Mimic on him, continual lando, and persist! Progenitor gets persist (SWEET).

The expense ain't an issue really. With my mana ramp and Arbor Elf s, 8 costs aren't that bad. Any more though and then it isn't worth it, 8 is my max.

ok so replace Utopia Sprawl with Abundant Growth

never mind lol

AHH, yah, no, hah lol, no... yah... you know why... (fail)

I think this deck has reached its peak... we seem to have run out of ideas for ways to improving it...

( sill wide open for ideas, please poor them out if you have any.)

Is there anyone else you may know who can criticize my deck? A fresh mind, a different personality can reveal different improvements and concepts...