you should add sword of feast and famine to help the infinite combo

I would suggest Skyshroud Claim as a potential alternative to tempt with discovery

My take is to cheat creatures in with Quicksilver Amulet or Dragon Arch while removing Whip of Erebos or O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami

I'll second MadDogLai's recommendation of Quicksilver Amulet and Dragon Arch...may I suggest that you use both! Dragons at instant speed are great fun and these two artifacts add an extra dimension to the deck.

MadDogLai and Rabid_Wombat. Hey guys, yeah I have been thinking of putting at least one of those cards in this deck. Maybe Belbe's Portal and Dragon Arch instead of Quicksilver Amulet but might all of them. Dragons at instant speed that can't be countered is not a bad deal. However, another deal I have found that I think I am going to have to do, especially since it helps with getting a good hand at just about anytime and with all the fetches, it has a lot of shuffle affects. Scroll Rack is a card that I am really considering of putting in this deck. Send away early game dragons that aren't needed and look for lands/ramp as to not miss land drops or lose on fixing. Plus, it can stack for Lurking Predators. With the amount of cards that can be drawn, it can very well be worth it to dig for answers that could save us in that instant. It can also prevent deck outs, so this seems very advantageous and I am thinking of getting one here really soon.

I have Dragon Arch and Sight of the Scalelords in my commander.

So... I just built this deck for my best friend, and I have a lot of knowledge if you are willing to listen.

The first thing I want to say, don't play The Ur-Dragon as your commander. I get why you did but less on your dragons isn't worth, having to pay 9 CMC for your commander. With Sion as your commander you get to play it turn 5, and put the Ur-Dragon on the table the next turn for , then you just reanimate it with Teneb, the Harvester or any reanimation tool.

Cards To Add Or Look At:

• Worldgorger Dragon
• Animate Dead
• Living Death
• Bloom Tender
• Hellkite Overlord
• Kilnmouth Dragon
• Elixir of Immortality
• Frontier Siege
• Descendants' Path
• Warstorm Surge
• Debtors' Knell
• Heartless Summoning
• Hunting Grounds

Cards to take out:

• Ramos, Dragon Engine: When you play dragons you are under constant bombardment of Wraths because your creatures hit hard and do so much. Ramos will never make it to 5 +1/+1 counters which means he's just a flying body. He needs to be in a deck based around him or using +1/+1 counters.

• Dragonlord's Servant: I get why it's in here, but again you can cheat dragons out with reanimation and this isn't good enough. Plus Heartless Summoning is harder to deal with because enchantment, and then it gives off so...

• O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami: the card is WAY too situational, it assumes that you are playing against a deck that wants to attack you and not by other means. My play group is Omnath, Daretti, Mizzix, and Superfriends none of which this card works to help defeat.

• Dragon Tempest: So you already have Temur Ascendancy which is better than the haste on this card, and Warstorm Surge does more damage per dragon. Ultimately this card relies on you keeping a huge board state which just isn't a reality when you sit down at the table with this deck.

• Herald’s Horn: Descendants' Path is just better.

If you want some good ideas for the deck just come look at the deck I built for my friend. Its super competitive and honestly has been a threat to our play group.

'Dance Dragon, Dance!'

Commander / EDH* DrkNinja

SCORE: 1 | 8 COMMENTS | 413 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS

DrkNinja with respect the deck is not called "The Scion Initiative" lol - you did not build "this deck" for a friend. You built a Scion deck...of which there are already plenty of lists on tappedout.

Of course the Scion build you came up with is "super competitive".... they all are. And nearly all of the recommendations you made simply turn this list into another Scion deck, although I agree that Kilnmouth Dragon and Reanimate Dead are both worthy of consideration.

The challenge with The Ur-Dragon lists is the combination of ramp, card draw, removal and beatdown that is required to win. Okay, I admit it takes a lot of effort (and luck!) to win with the Big D as your Commander but when you do succeed with the deck even the most jaded edh veterans in the pod sit up and take notice.

@DrkNinja: Good evening my friend. I thank you for your suggestions and leaving your opinion on making a Scion of the Ur-Dragon over The Ur-Dragon but I will have to decline I am afraid. As Rabid_Wombat has said, this deck is designed to be a competitive The Ur-Dragon deck because The Ur-Dragon is exactly what I want. He is a proper tribal commander that plays for swarms of dragons. Is it tough to make something like this super competitive, yeah it is, but I wouldn't say impossible. I am learning and trying to make a deck that is competitive.

I agree with some of your suggestions like O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami and Ramos, Dragon Engine is not worth running upon my tests today. Ramos is strong but will probably shine much better in his own deck. Works well with the bolster mechanic from Dromoka, the Eternal but that is one other card to combo with it. I am also half tempted to remove Herald’s Horn for maybe an actual rock but these are all things I am thinking about. You are also very right about Dragonlord's Servant and possibly even Dragonspeaker Shaman. Probably will go for some mana dorks to run instead of those so that there is more speed for this deck and mana that is use able for other spells other than just dragons.

I will tell you that you are not ignored and if I ever consider making a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, then I will gladly consider many of these cards, but for now and for as long as I can try, this deck will one for The Ur-Dragon. I will also mention that some of the cards that you have mentioned are now some that I am considering for this deck. Debtors' Knell looks awesome and is amazing recursion for any deck.

Thank you for all your time and I hope you did at least enjoy the deck that I made for The Ur-Dragon. Please have a great day and I wish you the best of luck in all your future magic endeavors.

Super +1 for the deck!! Two things:1. The way you're adding cards (e.g. Scroll Rack) it seems you're moving towards a combo deck, but correct me if Im wrong (just an assumption)2. Why no Sarkhan Unbroken

I run a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, but I like your build with the The Ur-Dragon as a commander. To start, I agree with Crav96, Sarkhan Unbroken is a good call for your deck, particularly because he ramps and fixes. I run him in I also agree with Pickachu202 that Skyshroud Claim is also better ramp than tempt with discovery; you'd need all three opponents in a multi-player game to take the bait or you actually end up down a net land. Skyshroud Claim gives you two untapped forests - or green shocklands.

Regarding my own suggestions, I like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker better than Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh. God-Pharoah gives you either seven damage or random effects, the original either blows up permanents or steals their commander the turn he comes into play.

I don't love Thought Vessel because the ramp it provides is colorless. You might be better off with a Weathered Wayfarer. Wayfarer doesn't ramp, but it does let you dig out whatever land you need, including utility lands.

Speaking of utlity lands, I like to run a Ghost Quarter or a Strip Mine to deal with cards like Maze of Ith. Otherwise, Vindicate is the only way you have to get rid of a problematic land. Krosan Verge is also a land that ramps and can let you fix colors. Bojuka Bog gets rid of an opponent's reanimator strategy.

Since your commander doesn't tutor, have you thought about Worldly Tutor to get the dragon you need, when you need it? Also, since you're trying to ramp as large as possible, Tooth and Nail may also be a good fit.

Best of luck with the deck!

I guess if you are challenging yourself to build a Dargon deck with The Ur-Dargon then ok. Ultimately though, Scion is the more efficient and competitive of the decks; I'd go as far as to say that I would ALWAYS beat an Ur-Dargon deck with Scion because it's faster. I get my Ur-Dargon on turn 5 or 6 you get your Ur-Dargon at turn 7 or 8; likely turn 8.

My best friend, has been behind in their competitiveness, so when this deck came out I went in and made a deck that could actually compete. Apologies if I offended.

@Pickachu202: Yeah I agree, Ultimately, I vastly prefer Skyshroud Claim and was just playing with Tempt with Discovery. I have made the adjustment and put skyshroud back in the deck.

@Crav96: I am glad you enjoy the deck. I want it to be noted that I will be making a few adjustments to it really soon. I will be adding the mentioned Scroll Rack and the mighty Sword of Feast and Famine to help with getting Aggravated Assault infinite combat kills.

The removal of Dragonlord's Servant and Dragonspeaker Shaman might be happening as well to put in other dorks that will accelerate other spells instead of just being dragon reduction. Can leave that to the Urza's Incubator as that is its job. Anyway, on to a topic you asked about. Your curiosity towards Scroll Rack and why no Sarkhan Unbroken. The Scroll Rack is not going to be pushing a combo eccentric build. The idea is still the same, smash people in the face really really hard with dragons. There are other ways like scourge and dragon tempest but swinging is the standard procedure.

The Scroll Racks design is for fixing bad hands or sending cards away that aren't needed at that point. Especially since the deck uses quite a few shuffle affects like all the fetches, we can easily trade our hand in for something new and possible hunt for specific cards. One can also imagine the scenario of a starting hand with 1 land, Sol Ring, Scroll Rack, and then the rest dragons or other spells with high costs. This would normally be a very bad hand to start with but the Scroll Rack can open this to be a great start with dropping the land, ring, and rack turn 1. then send everything back to the deck, hit another land, or even better a fetch land, then create what plays you can with the new hand. Now I am not saying this is still a good hand to keep, but it is possible to fix that kind of scenario. It also has the possibility of fetching the other half of your deck if one ends up drawing a lot of cards, which the deck can do. The rack will also put dragons from your hand, back onto the deck so that Lurking Predators can trigger them out. It helps with fixing dead hands so that the deck can continue strong.

Next is Sarkhan Unbroken. I don't run him right now because I do love Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon as my two main planeswalkers and I do not run anymore than the two because of space. Though Sarkhan Unbroken is a great planeswalker, he will more than likely not survive a round at the table to let you ramp into your other spells. He might, but while he is on the field, the target that does get painted on him is incredibly large. I also don't own one, so there is that.

@jeffbriem: Glad you enjoy the deck, and yeah I agree with some of the previous posts so I have made the change to Skyshroud Claim. As for the bolas. I really like the god-pharaoh, but I also really like his standard planeswalker as well. I want to run both of them, but I will not remove Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for him and I really don't see the space for a third walker.

Thought Vessel, while it is a colorless mana ramp card, it is mainly in the deck for the hand size bonus, as the deck can draw a lot of cards and my recursion abilities are small. I would just rather keep cards in my hand than discard them, and since it is on a rock, it does help pay for other spells that aren't dragons.

I also don't own a Strip Mine, otherwise I would be running it and I also forgot about it until I saw it last night being played at my local playgroup. So I am looking at getting that in the deck somehow and possibly the Bojuka Bog. Was killed by a Karador, Ghost Chieftain last night that went infinite because the Yidris player decided it was a good idea to mill the table.

I won't lie, I am thinking about the Tooth and Nail because it is just a strong tutor card. I think I would run it over Worldly Tutor.

I also want to mention, but with the spoilers of Iconic Masters, I am probably going to want and will be trying to get a Ancestral Vision, maybe Mana Drain for the deck. I am also looking for any kind of draw card spells that might fit into this deck so if anyone has suggestions, I am all ears. Thought about Rishkar's Expertise and it was in here and one point, but the amount of mana needed to spend and if it gets countered. Doesn't seem good at that point.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but hey, thanks for all the valuable input. I wish you all the best and thank you for checking out the deck. Have a great day everyone. :D

Totally don't blame you for removing Dragonlord's Servant. I removed it a while ago and didn't look back. I agree that I'd prefer another ramp card in that slot.

Also don't blame you for cutting O-Kagachi. He just didn't perform for me either. I wonder about Sunscorch Regent as a replacement though. Personally I would add Dragon Broodmother from your maybelist. She is a bomb with cards like Kindred Discovery, Scourge of Valkas, Dragon Tempest, and any of the "whenever a dragon attacks" cards.

Herald's Horn I cut but part of me wants to bring it back and replace dragonspeaker shaman with it. Of course the shaman's cost reduction is better but he is more vulnerable as a creature and has double red in his casting cost. If you could choose to keep one, which would you have kept?

I like reading about your changes. Keep it up :)

I was working really hard on building my own Ur Dragon deck because ever since I was a child I was always into dragons! I built my first dragons deck around Intet, the Dreamer which that deck is by far one of the best decks I have built for commander! that deck is "The Dragon's Nest" if you would like to take a look! My own Ur-Dragon deck is The Dragon's Nest: Ancestry(which really needs some help). I really enjoyed looking at your deck and will definitely use your deck as a reference! May the hunt live on!

@MegaMatt13: Hey there Matt. Glad you enjoy reading my dissertations. I am also glad that you agree with the servants removal. I just think for what he does, it just seems lackluster and having a dork that can make mana for any spell is much more relevant. Selvala's Stampede is game winning when played on turn 3. Also yes, I played Selvala's Stampede on turn 3 in a game. It got me my Deathrite Shaman, Hellkite Tyrant(who proceeded to steal my opponents Chromatic Lantern), and a Savage Ventmaw. The ramp that game was so good. Nobody caught up and my dragons just ate everything.

One reason why I didn't add Dragon Broodmother is because I don't own her and the fact that she costs 3 red and 1 green as a requirement scares me a little, but I understand why one puts her in. She is good, however, another card I have considered was Skyline Despot. Become the monarch and make tokens if you keep the monarch, seem pretty decent.

I have also consider Phyrexian Arena, which when combined with Sunscorch Regent, basically kills off the negative side effect of the arena. I also really want to add back in Herald’s Horn. The discount and potential card draw is nice, have there been times it has whiffed, yes it has, but it still does its job well. No clue where to put it right now. I personally like Herald’s Horn over Dragonspeaker Shaman but I can understand the dispute that is coming from this. I really think I prefer cost reduction spells to be in form of enchantments and artifacts instead of creatures.

@DrkNinja: Please nothing has been offended. You made suggestions and it is okay. Yeah do I want to run The Ur-Dragon, but I still won't deny the power that the Scion of the Ur-Dragon brings. Thing is though, I have everything I really need to convert the deck over to scion when I want to. I might not have Reanimate, but that can easily be fixed. Thing to remember is that while yes a commander game is still reliant on the commander, this deck can still basically function without ever casting The Ur-Dragon where scion is needed to be cast. Yeah it is a lot of fun cast The ur-dragon but he isn't needed for every situation. I also agree that using scion to dump the ur-dragon into the graveyard just to recur him multiple times is great, but I have gotten The Ur-Dragon out on turn 5 before. Is it hard, sure, but still not impossible. This deck has competed with some of the other power house decks in my group. I have a friend who has a decked out Yidris storm deck, another with a not as decked out Yidris storm deck, another with multiple infinite combos in a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed deck. This deck has competed fine against them. Gotten mana screwed a few times, but that is all a part of the building process. Hence why I am thinking of a paradox engine build with more mana rocks, signets, and draw power. All things to think about. So please nobody was offended, would I prefer to see comments on The Ur-Dragon, yeah, but tis life and I knew it wasn't going to happen all the time. So if you have other suggestions for The Ur-Dragon, or maybe even suggestions for a scion deck, I am listening. I might decide to pick up a second dragons precon just to build the scion deck. A shitty land base will more than likely be in that scion deck but I could still build it.

@CinnaToastKrunch: Hey there Krunch. I am glad you enjoyed the deck. It has been a work in progress and I love the concept of what it does. Intet, the Dreamer is a great card and was something I was considering building a deck for, ultimately I did not, but he is still a great commander. I will have a look at your decks when I get some time for them, maybe leave a comment and see what I can do to help. Please check back often for updates here, I am still moving things around and deciding what direction I want to go with it. Maybe more ramp, unsure right now. Anyway, please compare all you want and have a great day.

I'm on mobile so sorry for lack of formatting.

But animate dead and worldgorger dragon goes for infinite mana.

It's explained in detail in the link below:http://tappedout.net/mtg-combos/animate-dead+worldgorger-dragon/

Derpsofdoom I like you opinion on O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, and am thinking of removing him as well, when it comes to my deck when you get the time I need help on obviously card suggestions but as to what cards to cut and what to replace. I am looking forward to seeing this deck evolve!

Derpsofdoom totally agree with you on the need for Mana Rocks - I've added Lion's Eye Diamond, a Mox Diamond and Mana Crypt to my list and actually won against Kaalia due to the extra acceleration! Okay...the guy playing Group Hug continuously adding +1/+1 counters onto Ramos helped too ;)

Just as an fyi, if you want the deck to be competitive the cmc shouldn't really be over 3 and also know that combat isn't really a viable way to win in cEDH and that it will only stay in t3 if you keep it combat based.

I dig the deck, +1.

Thoughts on Sarkhan's Triumph? Seems like an decent inclusion in any dragon tribal deck running .

The deck is a good start, I would suggest taking out Dragonlord Kolaghan since the only thing you have with it is a 5/6 with flying and haste. It is nice that it gives haste, but that last effect is useless. I would suggest Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund it is a lot better. It has the first 3 effects of Kolaghan, but steals dragons from other players. Also Deathrite Shaman is out of place here, I would suggest throwing Dragonspeaker Shaman back in.

Hey Derpsofdoom,

Very nice decklist! I've also been trying to create a moderately competitive ur-dragon shell after opening the C17 precon because I've found him to be such a fun commander.

A few questions:

1. In your testing, how effective has Rhystic Study been? I've been running Phyrexian Arena as card advantage in its place and have been debating between the two options.

2. Is there any particular reason you decided to drop Broodmate Dragon? He's actually one of my favorite dragons to play since it counts as a double etb trigger for cards like Temur Ascendancy, Kindred Discovery , Dragon Tempest etc.

It's always nice to find others to bounce ideas off of. Happy deck building!

BrettonTheKid, I've personally found Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund to be more trouble than he's worth. Depending on your playgroup, a lot of popular EDH spells targeting Karrthus can steal a winning board away from you. I'm talking about common EDH staples such as Rite of Replication, Bribery, various reanimate effects, and clone effects (which don't target).

Homeward path should fix stealing. I'd say, check out my deck. It's dragon tribal control.