@seibertross, thanks, I was thinking ths ame thing.

@metaphysical, ok, I see now what you are going for. Then I still have to argue for at least -1 sword of body and mind... and I would also suggest getting rid of the Armored Ascension , due to it's higher mana cost. Instead, if you put in +3 accorder paladin, you would have more focus on boosting those white weenies at a cheaper cost.

Honestly, the more I look at the swords, the less I like them in this deck. Now if you have play tested this a lot, and those cards seem to be the game changer, then I totally understand. I just feel that with what you just stated, you could put cheaper equipments that help stand against your weaknesses, or cheaper spells that give your creatures protection from whatever you want. You already have creatures with inherent protection from colors, and 4 instants (which rebound) that will give you protection. The boons granted from the swords (aside from untapping all your lands) seem to be minimal for this particular deck. On the other hand, I think Basilisk collar is great, and it fits the "weenie" aspect of the deck really well.

Plus, i saw mimic vat mentioned earlier. That is almost the same overall cost as the swords, but you could be stealing anything killed with DoJ or putting another exemplar on the field whenever you feel like. I think it would be a bigger game changer than the swords.

Sorry for rambling on =P I probably just need to play standard more.

@seibertross,

Ah that's my bad on that one, good call man. I had forgotten the damage clause, I was too focused on trying to prove its indiscriminateness as a targeting card. While it certainly does hit creatures in the same way Day of Judgment impartially does and gets around the targeting issue, the damage dealt is still prevented. I guess I was thinking too much in terms of shroud :(.

As for the Lightmine Field , I feel that it's a bit slow for this deck. Since I've slashed the land count to 22, I usually end up with only 4-5 lands to work with. Adding another 4cmc card makes me nervous, but it does seem pretty invaluable, even in the absence of protection like Brave the Elements or Emerge Unscathed . With the Honor of the Pure and Knight Exemplar counters/indestructibility it seems like it could work - one buffed creature attacking can afford the single hit. Plus, I literally never attack with an exemplar anyways (although a large attack under one's damage protection could backfire if the exemplar gets bolted). For -3 body/mind swords, i'll try out 2 of the fields... Should I add a Sword of War and Peace in the last slot? Or maybe add one more land?

The main purpose of the swords was for the color protection and easy +2/+2. It was very useful against blue / green / black decks that constantly try to unsummon / beatdown / or kill the creatures. The damage-to-player effects were just bonuses, and in their own rights an alternate win-con (esp. with Mirran Crusader ).

@tappedout29,

sac lands are in the deck to help thin it out quicker. I could take them out, but every bit that allows me to slim down the deck AND give it a shuffle to help draw variety has been good to me. While they are just dreamed and idealized cards in my RL deck, they are in here to help facilitate its speed. What reason(s) specifically do you think they don't belong in here for?

@infectorus,

With all the protection I have in this deck, I think Armored Ascension has finally found its place (albeit in a limited amount). It has proven invaluable countless times through the added flying and massive strength bonuses. I can wait with it in my hand until the moment is right, then play it on a creature (likely one with prot from black), toss down a Brave the Elements if need be, and watch the game end. It will only ever be played on a creature that cannot forseeably be sacced/countered as a result (primarily because it will have the relevant colour protection). I do agree with the swords, however - they have been moved in and out of this deck more than any other card. The player-damage bonus of the body/mind ones doesn't justify their keep, but the protection has, alternatively, in past games (see responses above). This is why i'm so torn on them :/. I like the Accorder Paladin idea, but his 1 toughness kills me. He often dies to the most ridiculous, weak things (i.e. Contagion Clasp , Necropede , etc). and costs me a turn of 2 mana. He's almost a little TOO weenie for this deck. I have considered adding 2-3 Silence , since those pretty much guarantee you a turn under your control, and that's an asset for my deck as it needs time to set up. I like the mimic vat idea too, and some cool combinations could definitely come with it, but we'll have to see on that one. A token Knight Exemplar each turn does have potential.

Keep the comments coming! By removing the 3 Sword of Body and Mind that opens up 3 slots, and right now I've sort of settled on 2 Lightmine Field s and maybe a Sword of War and Peace to go with it (Sword of Feast and Famine is too invaluable in this deck for the green player-damage bonus). Does that sound good?

What do you think of a 2x card:Norn's Annex alternative to 2x Lightmine Field ?

The norn's annex is a good idea too. The reason I didn't like it is because they can pay life, which means if they have enough aggro they may not care. Light mine field, on the other hand, guarantees death to almost all infect critters. I honestly don't know which one is better for his deck..

The argument about fetch lands will rage on.. I still don't know if they really do that much to thin, and i guess if you don't care about life loss then it's no big deal. I see, the armored ascension is a nice card. I just stopped being a big fan of expensive auras because if the creature dies, you just lost two cards for one. Plus, if you are facing another white deck, you could not give him pro white or you would lose the enchantment. If it has helped you win games though, keep it in.

I really like the silence idea. Another card (I know he is a bit expensive, but just an idea) that would be good is ol Gideon Jura . There is also that fun combination of him and lightmine field, but that is far too expensive... actually I was thinking we would make a good replacement for light mine, because you could make all other creatures attack him and you swing for the win. Just an idea.

Wow dude, you're straying here! Armored Ascension is NOT the way to go, especially since you removed Hero of Bladehold !! what's all that about?!?

If they have removal for your bladehold, so be it, it means they have less for your exemplar. The funny thing is, if they have it for your hero, they have it for the creature you plan on enchanting the ascension with! Removal is an integral part of the game that you cannot escape, except with some protection spells like Emerge Unscathed and counterspells, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't play creatures.

I demand you put back the hero! at least as a 2-of, but as it's supposed to be a western way of war deck i'd say go for 3.

Also, there's been enough research now to say that fetch-lands don't do anything in a mono coloured deck, so it's unwise to throw in 8 as the lifeloss may matter, the thinning will not.

Lightmine Field is a cool idea, but it's not really effective until you run the Knight Exemplar twice on the board, which is not a very common scenario. I'd still consider Day of Judgment over it as you have more control over it.

-2 Armored Ascension

-2 Lightmine Field

-4 Arid Mesa

-4 Marsh Flats

+3 Hero of Bladehold

+1 Day of Judgment

+4 Plains

+4 Tectonic Edge

As for the sideboard, any W/X deck runs 4x Kor Firewalker , mono-white should run 8. Also a bit more protection against caw-go is nice, and instant-speed artifact removal is a good way to go about it, also Tumble Magnet s help postpone them as well as valakut. I was wondering what your sun titans were for and i couldn't think of anything, so i scratched them :P If you have a good reason to keep them, i'd take out more Celestial Purge s.

-2 Refraction Trap

-2 Celestial Purge

-3 Sun Titan

-1 Revoke Existence

+4 Kor Firewalker

+2 Divine Offering

+2 Tumble Magnet

Seriously! :D

hope it helps.

P.S.: Mirran Crusader + Sword of War and Peace = immune to every kind of removal, except for Into the Roil , which doesn't really count to begin with. Replace Sword of Body and Mind with it, as you don't need pro-blue, and i think you won't win with milling much.

@jessetaverne I agree with almost all of what you are saying, but I have a problem with DoJ. The thing is, you just said that having the exemplar on the field is an issue for lightmine, so wouldn't that pose the same problem for DoJ? He is running a white weenie deck, so shouldn't he be able to produce creatures fast enough to deal with aggro so that DoJ shouldn't be required?

I still would like to pose the idea of Gideon. It fits his theme, The Western Way of War, and it costs one more than DoJ. I see him as a potential finisher to the deck with his fog/provoke, a way to deal additional damage as a soldier (which he could cast Emerge Unscathed on and 6 damage is nothing to sneeze at), or a way to get rid of whatever big creature decides to attack him. DoJ will only be useful sometimes, whereas Gideon will always be useful. Just two of them would be necessary.

I really like the Mirran Crusader and the war of peace, that should totally go in. Tumble magnet/artifact removal sounds great too, especially against Caw Blade....

Thank you for the comments! Some changes have been made.

@jessetaverne,

Hey man! Long time no commments/crticism - see what happens? :P The significance of the Armored Ascension was because of the ridiculous amount of protection I had going on. I could keep it in my hand until the time was right, and when it was cast it would be game. If someone targeted the creature it was about to be applied to, you can cast a prot spell. And since 8 of the creatures had protection from black built in, and the main removal I would face is black, it would usually always work out.

The biggest problem ive found is that this deck cant deal with air. I want to fit Cloud Crusader in if I can... His base power/toughess are weak, but he is a flyer that comes with first strike. The more first strike I can fit in here to deal with infect the better... and unfortunately Bladed Pinions has not been able to accomplish this in the past (unless, maybe, with Puresteel Paladin ). The lightmine sort of seemed an option, but by t4 it is a bit too slow. What I need is a way to deal with infect flyers like Plague Stinger or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon , ESPECIALLY when they get buffed with a card:Vampire's Bite or Piston Sledge

And infectorus,

I really like the Gideon idea. I like it a lot actually, but what would I take out to put two in?

Also, to deal with the removal problem, I have been considering putting Mimic Vat in the deck to help with recycling key units, especially the exemplar. Being able to put out it for a turn, lay down indestructibility, cast a Day of Judgment and then attack seems awesome.

PLUS, I want to put Puresteel Paladin in the deck, maybe with Nim Deathmantle for the phenomenal, free recovery ability that combo has (I can always un-attach it from the knight once its returned). Thoughts? Plz?

+1 from me, as your deck introduced me to the archetype, and helped me construct the skeleton of my deck.

if you wouldn't mind checking out my deck and giving advice, I'd much appreciate it!

hey thanks for the comment vigilant! I am glad you like it, this deck has been through the ringer in playesting and criticism. And I would be happy to check out your deck as well :)

Please keep the comments coming! I still need help on how to deal with flyer decks, like infect flyers in standard or Vampire Nocturnus decks in extended. Should I up the Day of Judgment s to 4? Help!

People may scoff at me for suggesting this, but Safe Passage may be a viable option... and it could work wonders for your creatures if you don't have an exemplar out. You could also put in the squadron hawks, they would be an excellent way of dealing with flyers, and they still get buffed from honor of the pure. I am just not a big fan of DoJ in your deck, but if it works then up it to four I guess.

Oh, and if you are playing extended, let me know cause there are lots of changes you could make to the deck.. =P

I like the Safe Passage idea, its kind of like a better Brave the Elements , although more pricey because it can be used to secure unvulnerability while a Day of Judgment goes off, although 7cmc is a little heavy on the lands.

And if wizards wrecks knights as a tribal in the 2012 set I will move it to extended. I also plan to use Elspeth, Knight-Errant if the time comes.

[Cloud crusader] is a not really that bad, its not really that good without exemplar out, he has way to low toughness to defend against infect flyers on turn 4(which most likely have pump cards ready to overrun crusaders P/T)unless he gets the +1's from exemplar.

though i cant find anything to replace it with, i suggest you use some of those fog effects like Safe Passage . just sideboard 2x [armored ascension] if u really hate flyer decks. but otherwise, your deck has come a long way ;)

at least you finally chose the titan over baneslayer haha.

As far as what you need help on...

Puresteel Paladin is a nice little knight with a fun ability that mildly helps with your deck. It does speed up your equip costs and I do think he's worthy of a spot here, but not over any of the other knights you have. Leonin Skyhunter has built-in evasion and I think he would be the only replaceable one, unless you drop down to 3 Leonin Skyhunter s and 3 Mirran Crusader s to fit in 2 Puresteel Paladin s.

How has the Basilisk Collar been working for you? I'm not convinced its the best here. Whispersilk Cloak gives you the shroud to protect Knight Exemplar from removal (except board wipes). Darksteel Plate does that better. If you have problems keeping your life up keep the Basilisk Collar , if not remove it for something more beneficial. Nim Deathmantle is helpful for the pseudo-unblockable and pump but Puresteel Paladin only helps with the equip cost, not the 4-mana ability to keep creatures on the field.

Hope this helps.

Puresteel Paladin doesn't belong with this little equipment, and if you want the deck to be knight-dedicated and western way of war etc, i don't really see it fitting in very often. Its metalcraft ability is alright, but you are not very likely to get there in the first place, and as Wah6313 mentioned, it doesn't work with Nim Deathmantle s secondary ability. Forget about him i say.

Mimic Vat is no good here. The scenario you described in which it would be awesome (put exemplar from vat on the field, DoJ and attack), is not only very unlikely to happen, it also costs 7 mana.

I was wondering, you keep changing the deck a lot, every day it seems a bit different. I had the same with a deck of mine, it was a deck i have never played until this day. Have you ever played with the deck?

Safe Passage doesn't prevent your creatures from dying due to a Day of Judgment , as they don't receive damage, they just get destroyed.

For protection from flyers, i agree with infectorus in that Squadron Hawk s would help. If not with Honor of the Pure , at least to hold them off for 4 turns, as you get as much as 4 of them in 1 card. I'd probably opt for 3 of those, as not to flood your hand with unnecessary creatures and still retain the card advantage they give you.

So

-2 Mimic Vat

-1 Basilisk Collar (still not sure what that card is doing here)

+3 Squadron Hawk

enjoy changing it up again ;)

Sorry I should have specified, I was thinking safe passage to prevent damage from fliers, I know it doesn't save the creatures from DoJ. I was also thinking about how it kinda fits the theme and it almost acts as a one turn exemplar if it isn't on the field yet.

I have to agree about the squadron hawk, I would hate to suggest moving away from the knights but they just work too well against other fliers and their ability is excellent. Yet I have to ask then, what about DoJ? Does it still belong here?

Flying hate is possible via Corrosive Gale especially since your talking about a situation where you won't give a hoot about life. Essentially you can kill those pesky Plague Stinger s for 1 mana. Skittles is a beast of course, but hopefully you can win before he can really go off.

card:Apostle's Blessing could be a devastating sideboard against Piston Sledge since it can't attach or stay attached with protection from artifacts. Which should lead to awful board situations for them. As well as help your guys out in certain situations

Wow, thank you again Tapped community for the many responses.

It looks like a few issues have been brought up, especially regarding Squadron Hawk , the artifacts in the deck, and Day of Judgment . I will attempt to make a case for my choices, so please point out in flaws or inconsistencies in my argument when you respond.

First, the hawks. I 100% agree with putting them in. And I think I would go all-in with 4 of them as well, because I can maximize my AA presence that way. And with 24 lands, flyers with a 2cmc are affordable. The question is, what to take out for them? I can see Sun Titan as the first dude on the chopping block, but I'm torn for what to remove after.

Next, I do stand by Basilisk Collar , ESPECIALLY with the hawks included. Deathtouch alone, especially with first strike, provides a huge deterrence from attacking (or blocking). Couple that with a bunch of cheap, expendable hawk flyers and you have a formiddable defensive setup.

Mimic Vat kind of came coupled with Sun Titan . With the vat, I can use it quite strategically in this setup: if I lose an exemplar, I can recycle it, say, when my opponent declares attackers and make my blockers turn from chunps to champs (possibly forcing them to use up a removal on the token exemplar. I can recycle Hero of Bladehold to great effect every turn for cheaper than it's mana cost. And most importantly, I can bring back Sun Titan who will bring back an additional 2 permanents per recycle. This keeps me in the game at all times with what I need. And with 24 land, casting isn't really an issue. Late games where I get 7 plains out can even result in the vatted exemplar/Day of Judgment combo. Now do you see?

So since Puresteel Paladin is out and Squadron Hawk is in, what should I take out? :(

Damn I really like that Corrosive Gale idea, should I do maybe -4 Leonin Skyhunter and +1 Hero of Bladehold , +3 Corrosive Gale ? Or maybe should I just sideboard it?

And I love the card:Apostle's Blessing suggestion, that's very intuitive thinking! But the question is, what can I sub out for it?

Depends on your meta. When I'm playing red Kor Firewalker is a nightmare all by himself so i don't really think you need the leyline's or the purges.

However if your facing alot of vampires w/ Dark Tutelage or Kiln Fiend & Pyromancer Ascension I'd leave the purges.

But if you drop both and goto 3 tumble magnets (more than that is usually overkill) you have 6 slots...I think i'd go 2 corrosive gale & 4 blessings, but again it really depends on what you're facing down most.

But hey all this protection talk wants me to just say "the hell with equipping" Add Accorder Paladin with this much protection for full out classic tribal rush.

I would sideboard the corrosive gale... I can't believe I didn't see that! I thought I found all the phyrexian symbol spells.. nice work seibertross!

Don't remove the skyhunter, a 2/2 flyer for 2, plus the fact that it's a night, makes it too good for your deck. The corrosive gale is an excellent sideboard, and if you are facing too many fliers, then sideboard the hunter and put in the gale. Apostle's blessing could replace brave the elements or emerge unscathed, I think it really depends on what you think is best and what you are playing against on a regular basis.

I would drop the vat and/or the titans. I love them both, but this is a knight/white weenie deck. They don't fit the theme very well, and I think they are over costed... Plus, with Emeria, The Sky Ruin you will have the sun titans ability... I guess it comes down to you play testing all the different options, and seeing what fits best.. I think the deck is looking pretty solid at this point.

Alright guys, you win. There are now 3 Squadron Hawk s jn the MB, and the SB has been adjusted to fit Corrosive Gale and card:Apostle's Blessing. anyone have any-counter suggestions, or do you think it looks fine/durable enough as it is at this point? My only personal thought is to squeeze in 1 more Day of Judgment , but that's just me.

Yeah on second thought, I could definitely use some SB help. If I have 2x Leyline of Sanctity , do I really need the Kor Firewalker s? And do I still need the Divine Offering s when I have Tumble Magnet in? I would also like to keep the purges, because I face A LOT of black in my meta. So, since I need to clear 6 slots, my thoughts are:

-4 Kor Firewalker -1 card:Apostle's Blessing-3 Divine Offering

+1 Corrosive Gale (to secure air control, since the knights can handle almost anything on the ground)+1 Tumble Magnet (for versatility)

Thoughts?