Thiopental (Numbing Euthanasic)

Legacy Busse

SCORE: 473 | 169 COMMENTS | 51274 VIEWS | IN 191 FOLDERS


Venzakid says... #1

Is this deck modern legal?

October 2, 2015 3:57 p.m.

Busse says... #2

If you switch Hymn to Tourach for Wrench Mind, yes.

October 2, 2015 4:33 p.m.

Fried_Mana says... #3

Love this deck--How do I make a bullet list under the accordion? As well as the green upvote button?

October 4, 2015 12:21 p.m.

ActionHeroDwag says... #4

I want to build it with playset of Dark Ritual, opinions ?

October 5, 2015 7:37 a.m.

Busse says... #5

Maybe this could work:
-1x Blackmail
-1x Sign in Blood
-1x Sewer Nemesis
-1x Victim of Night
+4x Dark Ritual

October 5, 2015 8:27 a.m.

zyphermage says... #6

The rack as a 4 of is really more important than shrieking affliction. It can kill planeswalkers. The question really is though, are you trying to be legacy or modern? If legacy why not drop the creatures and painful quandry? If you want to be budget modern swap out the hymn to tourachs to wrench mind. Also I think you are devalueing smallpox way too much, it is a non target kill spell with discard built in. There really is no drawback to it. When I played legacy rack a few months back, your 2 mana spells is what you wanted to draw most. The main 2 being smallpox and hymn to tourach.

October 5, 2015 5:18 p.m. Edited.

imzeripper says... #7

+1 for the rack ;) In all seriousness though, I do think that running creatures and Painful Quandary does just slow your game down (hurts a lot in legacy imo). It seems to me like running 2-4 creatures (cards) is all you need in this type of deck. Something like Pack Rat works well in modern, I don't know if there's a better alternative for legacy. I would take out the creatures and add Smallpox , this way it would hurt them more than it would hurt you. The Rack is better than Shrieking Affliction because it does give you choice of damaging the Lilis and Jaces. At the point where there are no creatures (or just less) I would suggest running Innocent Blood. I may be biased because I'm just used to building it that way :P

October 6, 2015 12:11 p.m.

titanreaver says... #8

Ravens crime is really only good in a B/G version using life from the loam, and in that version you have abrupt decay to deal with other threats. Over the last twenty years I have played many iterations of black control decks and I like where you are going with it but I think you are vulnerable to opponents who play spells to redraw their hands or pointed counter affects. I would look at things to hate on land bases like wasteland and cards to keep them from drawing like Chains of Mephistopheles I will be honest that I am a bit biased as that is the deck I am trying to build at the moment. Check it out if you get the chance Mono Black Chains.

October 13, 2015 4:01 p.m.

Serra_Sentinel says... #9

Mono Black Chains
Link for the lazy

October 13, 2015 6:05 p.m.

Busse says... #10

  • zyphermage: Hi there. I'm indeed considering the addition of Smallpox to the deck, and also Dark Ritual for ridiculous acceleration. Painful Quandary is here for a lockdown effect on the mid-late game (and believe me, it's mighty fun to see the face of your opponent when there is also Shrieking Affliction on the board), along with the creatures (for pressure). Indeed: Smallpox would be useful for crippling the opponent even further, and the land destruction on my side could be countered with the use of Dark Ritual. I'll have to get the cards to assemble the tests... so it may be a while. If you could tell me more about your experience with Smallpox, I'd be happy!
    See you around.
  • imzeripper: Innocent Blood is interesting but I think I'd choose Smallpox over it... don't know for sure yet. I think I've got to focus on a couple of spells now. My meta is not full of planeswalkers, so choosing The Rack is not mandatory, and the combination with Shrieking Affliction 1x or 2x is very, very efficient at taking down opponents. Maybe you are right and I should cut some creatures, but Pack Rat doesn't cut it here. I can't afford the luxury of discarding cards.
  • titanreaver: I am indeed vulnerable against creatures that are already on the battlefield, so again, Smallpox can prove to be a suitable solution. On the other hand, Raven's Crime is pretty useful here, but just at 3x count, otherwise it is just redundant. Thanks for the suggestions man :)
  • Serra_Sentinel: Thanks for the services man hahah courtesy links are always welcome! Cheers
October 14, 2015 10:26 p.m.

zyphermage says... #11

Well you really only run Raven's Crime if you add green for Life from the Loam. Life from the loam and crime are both insane synergies with Liliana of the Veil. Also if you add green you get one of the most broken removal spells ever printed with Abrupt Decay. I also suggest dropping creatures because you could run Ensnaring Bridge and shutdown 90% of decks win conditions. You should decide what format you want to be because I am still not clear. Your deck has legacy cards like Hymn to Tourach but the deck itself is nowhere near competitive enough for it. I can't remember the best use of smallpox ive had. it almost always gives me a 3 for 1 at a minimum if include the land. The other legacy 2 bb drop I ran that I did not mention earlier was Sinkhole. That card, Smallpox and Wasteland, with a life from the loam engine plus bridge to prevent attacking just stops people cold. The problem historically with this strategy is even though you stop them from winning, the hard part becomes winning yourself. That's where my man lands came in like Mishra's Factory or Mutavault, Cursed Scrolls and shrieking affliction and the racks.

My old list, deck No hands nightmare I have since removed the diamonds for dark ritual.

Something else you could consider is dropping all the creatures for Nether Spirit, which is a near invincible unit on its own. Entomb can make this card come out of the graveyard on your 2nd turn to swing on the third.

October 15, 2015 2:16 a.m. Edited.

Trexzilla says... #12

Would pack rat be decent in this?

October 25, 2015 10:36 p.m.

Busse says... #13

No. You don't have enough draw power to discard and generate copies. This might even go creatureless in future reviews. I'm considering Mutilate and Black Sun's Zenith, as the real damage comes from the enchanments and The Rack.

October 25, 2015 11:27 p.m.

Trexzilla says... #14

alright thanks

October 26, 2015 12:35 p.m.

RKPalmer says... #15

I've been keeping and eye on this deck for a while its been looking great, and i can agree with the possibility to creatureless application could be interesting, have you considered 'Waste Not' ?

Plus 1 to long ago would again after the rework.

October 28, 2015 12:27 a.m.

Busse says... #16

Hey! Thanks for that! Much appreciated.
The deck is right now undergoing the experimental phase of the latest build. I still have to get Dark Rituals to test it, but we are getting there.
The next step is testing the Rituals, after that replacing Nyxathid with the good old Hypnotic Specter and then without creatures at all.
It is true that Waste Not goes very smoothly here, BUT only if you get the mana acceleration. Otherwise you may get it too late, when the opponent starts top-decking, and by that point it would be useless.

Stay tuned and feel free to comment whenever you see fit!

PS: Other tweaks I have in mind, as I said previously, is the addition of Black Sun's Zenith or Mutilate.

October 28, 2015 12:44 p.m.

daronmcswag says... #17

Another onion destroyed.

November 13, 2015 11:33 a.m.

Busse says... #18

daronmcswag thanks! Check Sodium Hypochlorite (Allies+BFZ)'s last comment to see the latest onion sacrificed!

November 13, 2015 12:19 p.m.

Boaner says... #19

Why not use Shimian Specter as well?

November 23, 2015 9:41 a.m.

Busse says... #20

Boaner: I used to run Guul Draz Specter in the early builds, along with Hypnotic Specter, but the former proved to be too slow and his P/T too fluctuant.
Instead of him, I started using Nyxathid but right now I'm running a test phase without it and with Hypnotic Specter. It can be put into the battlefield on turn 1 with Dark Ritual, wich I find REALLY appealing :D

Eventually, I'll try this without any creatures at all, running Smallpox and or Mutilate/Black Sun's Zenith.

Hope that answers your question :D Cheers!

November 23, 2015 12:25 p.m.

How good this deck is in Legacy ? Is there any hard counter to this deck ? I feel like its kinda hard to play 8-rack it in Modern cuss of Leyline of SanctityBtw I like the changes with Dark Ritual and Hypnotic Specter but i think its weird to play Sign in Blood in legacy, what about 2 or 3 Phyrexian Arena.

November 24, 2015 3:58 p.m.

zyphermage says... #22

One of the biggest draws to playing mono black racks is being creature-less and blanking all the creature removal cards in their deck. This particular build isn't that strong in legacy imho, it is a modern build with dark rituals. Pox, the gift that keeps giving. would probably be a better example. It has powerful cards that most people do not want to pay for. Even still it has a tough time against brainstorm decks in terms of consistency and faster clocks. That is why chains is so good against brainstorm.

BTW this is my friends list and he has since this week bought his second Chains of Mephistopheles, the effect stacks.

November 24, 2015 4:39 p.m. Edited.

zyphermage says... #23

That wasn't a response to the OP/deck builder here exactly. If you have had fun playing this deck as it is then more power to you. I am just speaking to the deck archetype as to its usefulness in legacy.

November 24, 2015 4:44 p.m. Edited.

Busse says... #24

Hey people! For starters, let me clarify an issue (that I should put in the description heheh ). This is indeed a Modern deck, with the unfortunate addition of Dark Ritual, which makes it a LOOOT faster/aggressive-r. My meta is plagued with budget and not-so-much-budget Modern, Legacy and some Vintage decks, and we play against each other without distinction; so for the sake of precision for the site, I re-classified this into Legacy. This is so heavily discard-oriented, that it can win (not always, but enough times) against those pesky Legacy decks. That makes me happy in the end, but I'm still working to improve and turn this into an all-around deck. Come hell or high water kind of build.

  • ActionHeroDwag: The counterS to this deck are: -counterspell, -draw decks, and fast /-creature decks. This deck hoses slow and midrange combo decks, some RDW decks and anything that requires you to hold on to some cards in your hand.
    I like your suggestion of 3x Phyrexian Arena. Now with the Dark Rituals I added, the Arena turns into a very real engine instead of the Sign in Blood. More draws mean more The Rack and more Shrieking Afflictions... and I laugh just by the thought of it.
    I still have to evaluate the Hypnotic Specter, which may or may not make the cut. I'm very tempted to go creatureless. What's your opinion in that matter?

  • zyphermage Hi man! As I said, and I agree, this is not the best deck to play in a full-Legacy environment, this is intended for a more casual events. And... how you dare compare a 130 buck deck with a $3400 deck!!! Shame on you.
    What's your opinion regarding the Phyrexian Arena and creatureless build? I like the fact that it negates every kill spell the opponent might have. On the other hand, a Turn 1 Hypnotic Specter is also a threat...
    And yes... I've had fun playing with this deck... and man, when I played against it, I fuckin' hated it! Hahahah

Thanks for the support and advise people! Much appreciated

PS: Someone has had experience with Chainer's Edict, Smallpox or Geth's Verdict ?

November 24, 2015 6:28 p.m. Edited.

I would add 1 Dakmor Salvage cuss of Raven's Crime, i also think that Hypnotic Specter is kinda weak cuss prety much anything red can kill it, also Swords to Plowshares... i would like you to keep at least 2 creatures :)Btw thank you for considering everything i suggested, i appreciate :)And btw i havent any experience in legacy, so im a noob there.

November 25, 2015 9:26 a.m.

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