You absolutely can cast instants during upkeep.

thanks squire, now that the question was answered about that. What then is better, Desperate Ravings, or faithless looting?

This seems so borderline close to me. So I am torn between the two cards, and don't know which to run lol.

Ok sorry then I was wrong. :/

Its ok mistory. but going back to the comment where I described the pro's and cons of both Desperate Ravings And Faithless Looting, which is better, best for this deck?

I still think Faithless Looting is better. The reason I like it is b/c of Noxious Revival . It lets you discard a miracle card and then redraw it next turn. Also, Desperate Ravings only lets you go two cards deep, and therefore is only better if you miracle card is 2nd from the top of your library.

Actually both cards go 2 cards deep. And you don't want the miracle card 2 cards from the top with both draw cards, because that would make the miracle card, the 2nd card drawn, not the first card drawn, like how it needs to be the first card drawn.

After thinking about it some more, I could try to split 4 red card draw cards, into 2 Faithless Looting, and 2 Desperate Ravings.

I coulod do that, by turning 1 Faithless looting, and 1 image, into 2 Desperate Ravings

What do you all think of that?

Well yes, but that's not what I meant. I think Faithless Looting is better because Desperate Ravings doesn't do anything for your miracle cards: like you said, the miracle card has to be the top card which you would draw anyway on your draw step. Even if you cast it on your opponent's turn, it will only help if the miracle card is 2nd from the top, because the top card you would draw anyway on your draw step. Whereas Faithless Looting helps, if you have a Noxious Revival , when a miracle card is anywhere in your hand or on the top 2 cards of your library.

I have been playtesting this deck, and I found it hard to cast increasing vengeance. So I think maybe take them out for some instant-speed draw, ex. Think Twice. Also, for SB, whipflare over the other damage card

Actually, think twice isn't doing anything. I took away an Island for a Mountain and now the base is fine. -1 increasing +1 delver. Normally, I flip 2 delver's with a Thunderous Wrath, swinging for game the next turn. Also, rule check. If I have no cards in hand and I use Merfolk Looter on opponent's turn and reveal Thunderous Wrath, can I play it?

That's a good rules question, I would like to know that to.

Also are there blue red combo lands, that are like Copperline Gorge, and Darkslick Shores, and Sulfur Falls, or is Sulfur Falls, the only blue red land?

If there are, I think those would help.

As far as taking any increasing Vengeace out. I usually don't have any problems casting them out when I draw them.

Getting, or having, and or casting a increased vengeance at the same time as cast a miracle card, can be hard.

But that's why if that doesn't happen, can flash cast it for 2, instead of 7, if use snapcaster to do that.

Also can use increasing vengeance on all the other MANY instants, sorceries, besides the miracle cards.

Also increasing Vengeance is better as a 3 of. If only run it as a 2 of, it won't come out enough to copy enough to be worth the slots.

I think maybe turning 1 blue land, into 1 more mountain might help.

Remember increasing vengeance + Thunderous Wrath, or Mastery, is a alternate semi win con. And Increasing venegance + Thunderous Wrath + Noxious revival OR Ponder OR + ANY card draw card is almost a primary win con, and definately a alternate win con.

that's why Increasing Vengeance should be in, and why there should be 3 of them.

Erm, yeah, this article totally makes me eat my words. You definitely can cast miracle cards in your opponent's turn. Sorry for the confusion lol

http://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2012/apr/10/mafteechrs-classroom-miracle/

Hey Tea, its ok. We are all still learning the rules on interactions with the miracle mechanic, and still learning, figuring out how to abuse the hell out of miracle cards, like Thunderous, and Mastery.

All I can say is thank god they had the idea to exile Temporal Mastery after it resolves. Imagine the shennanigans if that wasn't the case?

Well I hope a card doesn't come out that lets you get back a exiled card.

There's already Runic Repetition, but that's exiled cards with Flashback. Trust me lol it's the first thing I checked xD

Well since they made a card like that, then based on what they have done so far, it's not a stretch, that they might make a card like that, but without the flashback limitation

Remember we haven't seen the whole set yet, so they could come out with a card like that without the flashback limitation, and really break standard.

I noticed thru play testing that 2 faithless lootings is not enough, because it doesn't come out enough when have a miracle card in opening hand. And that caused the miracle card to be in opening hand too long.

Also Desperate Raving's 2 cmc ate into my mana pool and made it so that didn't have enough mana to do whatever needed to be done.

Also 3 ponders are not enough.

It would be nice to able to draw a miracle card, and play it during my upkeep phase, and then draw another card during my draw step, and then draw cards during my main phase. But I don't think Desperate Ravings, will allow me to do that effectively without messing up the deck.

But perhaps I will find something better that would make it so that I could do all that, without messing up the deck.

You mean Merfolk Looter? I like him 'cause if you have no cards in hand and a miracle card on top, you can use it on your upkeep to draw, not discard, then draw for the turn.

Typed up a DECK BREAKDOWN, in the DECK DESCRIPTION area

I think since your hand is almostty late game from all the "draw then discard", Mystic Retrieval could help win by getting back Noxious Revival

Is there anything like Mystic Retrieval, but either 3 cmc, with a penalty, or return a card and draw a card for 4 cmc, and a penalty?

Everything about that card is great, except for the 4 cmc.

Also another problem is that in order to run 2 or 3 of them, I would have to take out 1 ponder, and 1 Noxious Revival, and 1 Image, to run 2 or 3 of them, and if I did that, I might not be able to draw into ponder, and Revival, if there is 3 of them, instead of 4 of each of them.

So there might not be enough room.

looks like it's time to scour, look thru every red,green,blue card in standard.

I don't think 3 increasings are necissary, and neither are the faithless lootings. Maybe take those out for 2 retrievals?

Thereason why you need 3 vengeances, is if you have 2 of them, your only going to get 1 every 3 out of 5 games. Drawing can increasethat to somewhere between about 1 every 2 out of 3 games, to 1 every 3 out of 4 games.

That means that if only run 2 of them, then I will either get none out, or if I do, I probably won't be able to use it, because when I finally do get 1, it will probably be way before, or way after I cast a miracle card.

If I want to be copying miracle cards, and other useful spells(and I do), I must have a minimum of 3 to be able to semi consistently do so.

copying my stuff, and opponents stuff, semi consistently helps wins games, and wins games.

If I only run 2 faithless lootings, then I will not be able to discard miracle cards from hand, when accidently draw them to my hand.

I tried only running 2 faithless lootings, when did the 2 faithless lootings, and 2 desperate ravings thing. When I did that, sometimes the miracle cards, stayed in my hand to long.

The only way to fit in 2 or 3 mystic retrievals in, is to cut 1 ponder, and 1 Revival, and 1 Image.

Either way, any way you slice it, dice it, your gona have to water, thin the deck down, make it less consistent, to make the change, put in the Retrievals

Also if I only run 2 Vengeances, I might as well not run any of them.

The only problem with running 3 Vengeances, is the mana base. Get that done right, and 3 Vengeances, are great, awesome.

think of it this way. here is a example to make a point.

You copy something important. Now Veangence is in graveyard. Then you cast wrath, and copy it for 10 damage. Then vengeance is exiled.

No more Vengeance Copying. That's with 2 of them.

Now with 3 of them: You cast Mastery, copy it with Vengeance. mastery is exiled. Then you get vengeance back. Then you cast Wrath and copy it for 10 damage. Then you either draw another vengeance, or get back the 1 you casted. Then you cast a wrath and copy it for 10 more damage. Then you cast mastery and copy mastery. Then you cast and copy wrath for another 10 damage.

And you can do that because Revival and Retrieval are getting wrath and vengeance back, and you are drawing 1.5 vengeances out of 3, instead of just 1 out of 2.

3 vengeances, and Revival, and Retrieval, wins games, while 2 vengeances, usually doesn't.

That's why 3 vengeances is better then 2.

In playing Merfolk Looter I actually did not like it. It managed to do ok on my opponent's turn, but the idea that you can draw and then cast a miracle before discarding is actually not quite right. Yes you can cast the miracle card when it is drawn, but merfolk looter's ability hasn't finished resolving yet and must finish before you try using the stack again. This requires you to discard a card. Also why something like Faithless Looting is a tricky card to play because you must finish resolving it and so if you had no cards in your hand when you played it then they just go straight to the graveyard.

Also I'm not convinced on Cryptoplasm. It doesn't seem to work well here. Phantasmal Image or Phyrexian Metamorph are far better. Even Cackling Counterpart would work here.

I'd probably go with Think Twice over Merfolk Looter for instant draw speed. Definitely 4x Increasing Vengeance. The new vex devil would be a welcome addition as well.

It definitely has potential, but not quite broken. Right now its a little gimmicky with noxious revival to activate miracle.

Though if you're gonna do that then Forbidden Alchemy could be effective or something like it.