Toxic Relationship: Hapatra EDH [PRIMER]

Commander / EDH Daedalus19876

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Daedalus19876 says... #1

Profet93: It turns out that, due to a quirk in the rules, "Tap Cradle for zero" is still a mana ability. Contamination overwrites the zero amount with a one. Neat corner case.

Spidersilk Armor ended up being awesome so far. Very happy with the addition.

Manglehorn is generally outclassed by Collector Ouphe here. If I want more artifact hate, Null Rod and Karn, the Great Creator would be my next choices.

I am really not a fan of Song of the Dryads. I don't like how slow it is. I'm also not convinced there's too many commanders that get hit hard by it in our meta (apart from my own, obviously).

Krosan Grip is too much mana. I'm not TOO worried about my removal getting countered currently, or at least not worried enough to slide in K Grip.

I've considered Static Orb and friends before. I've just never really wanted to make this into a primarily-stax deck.

February 8, 2020 1:15 a.m.

Profet93 says... #2

All of those points are fair. That being said, your deck is not at all staxy. You're only real stax piece is collector ouphe and maybe a few others at most (but I would clarify them as control).

How has noxious revival been as a source of recursion for you? The phyrexian mana makes it very easy to cast, and you can mess up an opposing draw (or even be political with it should you wish). How impactful has it been for you?

February 8, 2020 1:39 a.m.

Profet93 says... #3

Also I looked up the ruling regarding contamination and came across this ruling....

106.12b A replacement effect that applies if a permanent “is tapped for mana” or tapped for mana of a specific type and/or amount modifies the mana production event while such an ability is resolving and producing mana or the specified type and/or amount of mana.

Meaning, the resolution of Gaea's Cradle with 0 creatures is not "producing mana" and therefore will not interact with contamination since there is nothing to replace

February 8, 2020 1:53 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #4

Profet93: Instant speed and zero mana. Works pretty great for me, honestly, especially in response to a GY wipe. And sometimes I get to mess up other people's reanimation spells.

February 8, 2020 1:53 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #5

Profet93: Gaea's Cradle being tapped with zero creatures is still a mana ability resolving -- even though it produces zero green. Zero is a number the magic rules can handle, and that zero is replaced with one.

Feel free to check this one on the judge group formally -- I'm wrong occasionally, and it's not a corner case I've ever had to investigate in depth.

February 8, 2020 1:55 a.m.

FunkiestBunch says... #7

I've found that Driven // Despair has won me a couple of games, but that's usually after I cast Triumph of the Hordes.

February 8, 2020 4:26 p.m.

ItsADeadThomas says... #8

I feel like this version and mine are very similar with the addition to the excludes minus blowfly, its too good with a single aristocrat out and a token generator like hapatra, nest, or flourishing defense. Blowfly is usually my second card I tutor for when I have yawgdaddy on the field on in hand.

February 29, 2020 3:13 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #9

ItsADeadThomas: I used to run Blowfly Infestation here. But it's screwed me over too many times -- since it's not an optional ability, it's forced me to kill my board before. It's also not tutorable with most of my tutors, and I cut it when I realized I had better options. Moreover, it's a 3-piece combo (since it needs something to profit off the death triggers), so it's not any more efficient than my other combos here.

March 1, 2020 1:53 p.m.

Inever had to destroy my own board before with blowfly yet, I can understand how it can but I've yet to make it happen.

March 1, 2020 2:56 p.m.

IzmAYAYA says... #11

Hey man, I do have a question regarding Yawgmoth. Let's say you cast him and I decide to use an instant to either deal 4 damage to him, make you sacrifice him or destroy him.

Can you still use his abilities to combo with Hapatra (whether it's once and then my instant resolves, or you do it an "infinite" amount of time before stopping)?

March 11, 2020 6:21 p.m.

cleandeceit says... #12

I noticed you took out Mikaeus. Was he not working for you?

March 11, 2020 11:28 p.m.

cleandeceit says... #13

Have you considered running Grismold, the Dreadsower? You could replace Soul Snuffers with him.

Consider this, two mana Hapata, 3 mana Grismold, 4 mana Yawgmoth. Grismold would balance the cost of the -1 counter placement with each token you sacrifice to Yawgmoth. This allows you to dig as deep into the deck as you need to immediately. Yawgmoth and Hapatra alone give you the lock on creatures, but if the field is clear and you haven't drawn enough cards to find the win, passing the turn gives too much time to your enemies to kill Yawgmoth. If you can get something on the table before you drop Yawgmoth to help you go deep straight away, you remove that window from your opponents. Spidersilk Armor does the same thing for you. It's important that the card you select for this purpose cost less mana than Yawgmoth so that you can get it on the table first.

My argument against Soul Snuffers is that in the best case scenario, it nets you some 1/1s while knocking out some enemy 1/1s. Even if it kills 4 mana dorks and brings you an army of 10 snakes, it doesn't really bring you any closer to winning the game. AND its 4 cmc. Better to have a 3 drop that can work into a combo loop.

March 12, 2020 11:22 a.m.

OptimalGreen says... #14

I don't know about replacing anymore -1/-1 counter cards. If you don't draw Yawgmoth or a tutor to find Yawgmoth and you can't get your snake production going you're just going to sit their twiddling your thumbs. You say you might get 10 1/1s but also they're 1/1s with deathtouch and most opponents wont attack into you giving you time.

March 12, 2020 11:50 a.m.

cleandeceit says... #15

@OptimalGreen, One death touch snake from an early Hapatra swing works well enough for detouring attacks. What deck is bringing a group of attackers against this combo heavy deck? More likely the enemy of this deck is also trying to combo, so ten blockers is not what you need. Besides, what's the point of "buying time" really? It just means you didn't get to your win fast enough. Grismold could bring you that win faster thus eliminating the need for more time. Also, Grismold makes two bodies the turn you play him, so he works fine for buying time in the early turns with the added benefit of not killing your own utility creatures the way Soul Snuffers does.

March 12, 2020 9:07 p.m.

OptimalGreen says... #16

I dunno. It's not my decklist and mine does vary a small bit but taking out more and more of the cards that actually go along with the strategy to make the entire deck focus around one card in the 99 just doesn't seem like a very good idea cause what'ya do if Yawgmoth gets exiled when you're in G/B and can't do anything about it? Just scoop? Veil of Summer won't protect you from Swords or Path which are very real threats if anyone is playing white.

March 13, 2020 2:26 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #17

IzmAYAYA: If you cast a removal spell on Yawgmoth, yes, I can still try to combo with him in response. I've won in response to removal before. However, it means I have to win without sorcery speed cards, which is possible but harder (usually involving some janky combination of Vampiric Tutor, Chord of Calling, Noxious Revival, Crop Rotation, etc). Once I have something like Ivy Lane Denizen on battlefield, though, my Yawgmoth combos become almost impervious to removal (since I can just start a second iteration of the combo in response to your removal). I hope that answers your question! (Also, I can dig and try to find Veil of Summer and/or Heroic Intervention to counteract your removal.)

cleandeceit: Mikaeus wasn't doing enough. He got a lot less good when I removed Defense of the Heart. I am not a fan of Grismold here at all, sorry. He makes it impossible for Hapatra to connect, gives opponents things to sacrifice, et cetera. This isn't 100% a Yawgmoth combo deck; I do still use aggro as my backup plan, or to win with things like Craterhoof Behemoth. Moreover, the many snakes from Soul Snuffers increases the power of Gaea's Cradle, Ohran Frostfang, Skullclamp, Earthcraft, et cetera. Grismold does this job much less effectively, and generally fits my gameplan less well: I'd prefer the one huge "burst" of creatures. OptimalGreen is completely correct -- if I orient my whole deck towards Yawgmoth, I'm dead in the water if he gets exiled, etc.

March 13, 2020 1:25 p.m. Edited.

IzmAYAYA says... #18

@Daedelus: Yes you answered my question, thanks for that. I'm building my own version of your deck, could I have your thoughts about it once it's done please?

March 13, 2020 3:53 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #19

IzmAYAYA: Sure, tag me on your deckpage when it's done :)

March 13, 2020 5:26 p.m.

OptimalGreen says... #20

Oh yeah I was thinking. If we end up getting the enemy bond lands this year do you think Woodland Cemetery is the dual land to replace? I've got a Bayou and I already got rid of Blooming Marsh so I think Cemetery is the next weakest link since it has a chance to enter the field tapped unlike Twilight Mire and Llanowar Wastes.

March 13, 2020 10:32 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #21

OptimalGreen: Either that or a basic, we'd have to playtest.

March 13, 2020 11:07 p.m.

Jfreyes says... #22

I’m so happy to see this! Thanks. I love Hapatra; my first deck was built around her -Jund with Scorpion God in Standard- and I’ve been searching for ideas to build her as a commander.

March 18, 2020 3:19 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #23

Jfreyes: She's a lot of fun! Glad to hear you're a fan of this list, let me know if you have any questions ;)

March 18, 2020 3:33 a.m.

WUBRG97 says... #24

Hi Daedalus19876

I see that this list has evolved into a very optimized/competitive list, with the inclusions of mana dorks, moxes and various other inclusions.

Do you have or do you consider making a list that is more casual gameplay wise (Not budget) with inclusions like Parallel Lives and Blowfly Infestation rather than fast combos like Earthcraft.

March 18, 2020 11:05 a.m.

skeletonkey8 says... #25

Could i actually ask the opposite question, is there more competitive cards you would like in this list? i love this deck and have been watching it grow from the beginning and remember the time you changed the list for your friend to use at a tournament

March 19, 2020 6:20 p.m.

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