hey did you ever get a chance to test Toxic Deluge, and if so what were your thoughts?

skeletonkey8: Incredible card in general. Haven't gotten to test here yet.

Another question, you mention Chains of Mephistopheles a bit, but isn't this card bad here (well not bad but just not optimal) because your Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons + Yawgmoth, Thran Physician would be worse. With it out, your now paying 1 life, sacing 1 creature and discarding, for draw 1, put a -1/-1 counter and get a snake. Now doing that 20 times, which is really pay 20 and discard 20, to draw 20, rather than just pay 20 to draw 20.

So in my play group we dont care about proxies if they are nice proxies and we try not to play stuff that is clearly busted. This card doesnt seem busted, just strong. So im questioning its use. Im essentially trying to make a version for your deck that is as powerful as it can be without feeling like full on stax, as i dont find killing all my stuff fun(just everyone elses) or taxing all my stuff just so others are taxed too.

That all said i do see the synergy with your recursion spells.

I hope me asking you all these questions about higher power cards here is ok? i can ask my questions elsewhere though and just focus on new cards here if you would prefer?

skeletonkey8: Honestly, when I'm trying to go off with Yawgmoth, I just need to dig for one or two specific cards (something that drains life, mostly, but also protection). If I have Chains on the field, I'm happy to loot until I find them as long as I start with a couple cards in hand.

But that's the heart of playing stax pieces -- I don't care if they hurt me, as long as they hurt my opponents far MORE. And Chains doesn't STOP me from drawing entirely, which would be a problem.

And nah, I don't mind, as long as it doesn't drown out other comments :)

Additions to this deck from Ikoria/C20: Fiend Artisan, Deadly Trick, Species Specialist, and Nesting Grounds. Potentially Netherborn Altar and Extinction Event?

ok deal =) thx for the answer =)

awesome additions to the deck man keep the brilliant idea's going

Daedalus19876 from the cards you mention from ikoria/c20, here are my thoughts:

I will also try to include in my build fiend artisan, deadly trick and nesting grounds.

I'm not sure about species specialist, as it has a high cmc and also feels slow as it won't draw cards on its own or upon etb. In my mind, I'm comparing it to generous patron, which will usually draws you 2 cards when etb and also has a triggered draw ability.

I think netherborn altar would have to replace a protection card (safekeeper, veil, intervention or greaves) as it somehow serves the same purpose. I think I'll stick to protection still.

Extinction evict sounds good, but look meta dependent? Maybe some testing will say.

kev41: I feel like Species Specialist is a powerful option, though obviously one that needs testing -- we kill our own snakes a lot, and if an opponent wipes the board, we'll draw a bunch of cards rather than being entirely sucker-punched. Regarding Netherborn Altar, I see it more as a ramp piece, as well as recursion -- plus, it works really well with Nesting Grounds. Extinction Event is definitely weakest of the potential additions, but I noticed that almost everything relevant in this deck is at an even CMC, so I was considering it as a 1-sided board wipe.

What are our thoughts on Golgari Charm? Is it better than Species Specialist? Or Moldervine Reclamation?

I would like to know what the benefits are to use Species Specialist over Moldervine Reclamation?

To me it seems that Moldervine Reclamation is only 1 more mana, with both colours, but will trigger for every creature that dies for you and will net a card + 1 life.

I suspect that one will name snakes with Species Specialist, in that case Moldervine Reclamation seems more worth it to me.

But what are your thoughts and reason?

Best Regards WUBRG97

skeletonkey8: It's just very different? I don't think it's a comparable set of cards -- Golgari Charm is a (so-so) protection piece, while the other two are draw sources.

WUBRG97: In addition to being 1 mana less (the difference between 4 mana and 5 is significant), the critical distinction is that Species Specialist is a "may" ability. When I'm going off with Yawgmoth, the cards left in my library is often a major limiter to my combo.

Daedalus19876: Oh i see, that is a very significant distinction between the two. Thanks.

WUBRG97: For what it's worth, if Moldervine Reclamation were a creature, it would be less of a problem -- then I could just sacrifice it to Yawgmoth when going off. But as-is, I have to find enchantment removal for my own thing to avoid decking myself, and that's a problem.

Ahhh that makes sense, my idea about charm steamed from the idea of protecting the board instead of proactively using specialist. Ivalso didn't relize that it is a may trigger that does seem powerful

Thank you =)

So i have to ask what would you take out to put in Living Plane? Seems crazy to kill everyone's lands as a win con.

skeletonkey8: I have no idea, slots are just so tight these days. Possibly Bane of Progress? But I haven't even found cuts for all the new Ikoria cards yet...

I took out compost for species specialist, seemed more direct. I also cut carpet off flowers for netherborn alter and null rod for deadly rolick. But ill be honest i didn't really carpet or and null rod so they were quick cuts, may i say though you definitely want deadly rolick, it's been a great having zero mana removal for creature and artifacts and enchantment. Keeps them guessing. I can't wait to seem what you choose =)

skeletonkey8: Deadly Rollick is most certainly going in. Fiend Artisan already has a slot, and I think I'll find a way to squeeze Netherborn Altar in? Those are my highest priorities (apart from land).

Ok so here is an off topic question which deck have you been enjoying more recently your Hapatra deck or your Yawgmoth deck? The fans need to know!

skeletonkey8: Between those two... Probably Hapatra, slightly? But I haven't gotten to play EITHER of them much recently, given quarantine.

Of course, my favorite deck at the moment is this one, without a question!

Endless Forms Most Beautiful: Vadrok EDH

Commander / EDH Daedalus19876

SCORE: 33 | 38 COMMENTS | 2612 VIEWS | IN 6 FOLDERS

So with the new land you have a new win con and im excited and wanted to share the combo with you. Maybe you already figured this out?

Nesting Grounds + Devoted Druid + Nest of Scarabs + Earthcraft + Obelisk Spider

In this combo you are using nesting grounds to move the counters off of devoted, the act of placing and then moving the counter nets you 2 creatures. Earthcraft then allows you to untap nesting. you can ether move the counters onto a random land or onto a snake or bug for infite death triggers too.

skeletonkey8: I feel bad for pointing this out, but Earthcraft only untaps basic lands.

NOOOOOO! =( sad!

Well at least squirrel craft + devoted denison + Fiend Artisan + Species Specialist still can mimic Hapatra and Yawgmoth combo

But really what can't you get done with infinite mana an creatures lol