PenitentKnight says... #2
Skullclamp perhaps? Detritivore and Inkwell Leviathan might work.
April 14, 2013 7:28 p.m.
BearCounters says... #3
Academy Ruins , for either Ghitu Encampment (that might be bad flavor karma though) or Faerie Conclave could work out well. Recurring o-stone and disk can be back breaking.
Sneak Attack is a bit more iffy, as I only count a debatable 11 creatures that are worth cheating in, but I think you might have enough wheel effects to find something most of the time you cast it. Also sneaking in kederek leviathan right before someone's about to attack you is hilarious.
I know you mentioned it on your list, but I think Pact of Negation is worth playing, albeit for different reasons. The utility of a 0 cost counter is kinda hard to scoff, at first and foremost (and you only run three counters total), but it can also be fetched with Tolaria West , so the card turns into a cancel late game.
April 14, 2013 11:42 p.m.
WOOOOOOOT I JUST SCORED MYSELF A CRYPTIC COMMAND!!!!!!!!!!!! WANTED 1 4 AGES BUT THEY'RE SO DAM EXPENSIVE
April 15, 2013 7:05 p.m.
Here is the updated list of suggestions
This deck is part of an ongoing chalange which can be found on the forums.
If you know a card I should play and I end up running it, I will send u a copy of the card in the mail. Below will be a list of suggestions and who said them first and why I am or am not playing it. There can be more than one winner, but the same card cannot win twice.
Keep in mind the deck is competative in nature, and must be able to win in one on one and in 4 way multiplayer.
Here are some ground rules,
Dont name cards that are in the list already. DUH!
Every win con has to win by itself post landwrath, and keep them from coming back into the game
Every wrath has to get all the lands and creatures
Every other spell has to facilitate the goal of Jhoira Suspending things, or just be that good that it has to be played
My decision is final, it is after all my deck. But feel free to discuss in the comments.
SUGGESTIONS
Temporal Manipulation / Capture of Jingzhou - MTG_Player - These cards were cut from the list after I did some testing with them. the clogged up a lot of hands that couldnt cast them till turn five. In the end they made the deck slower not stronger
Time Stretch - MTG_Player - Does not win by itself, you need to have another fatty in hand
Mystic Remora - MTG_Player - Does draw a few cards (maybe) but is mana intensive and makes the deck play more like control then I want
Burning Wish - MTG_Player - Used to be in the deck, but got cut because of how much worse it made Cunning Wish , plus there were not a ton of sorcerys I wanted
Basalt Monolith - MTG_Player - comes down too late and does not net any mana the turn it comes down. remember the goal is not to ramp to fatties
Swiftfoot Boots - MTG_Player - the fatties have haste, and jhoira does not need it, it seems win-more to give your fatty hexproof why not run counterpell instead like i am
Reins of Power - MTG_Player - doesnt win the game most of the time, and plays like a control deck, also mana intensive, Gilded Drake is strictly better
Cyclonic Rift - MTG_Player - still thinking about it
Mox Diamond - MTG_Player - you wouldnt know without playing the deck but I considered it and I just dont have enough lands, most hands have three lands or less after mulligans, so it would be hard on my mana often times, this is a good suggestion though
Mox Opal - MTG_Player - Just not enough artifacts
Ixidron - maiden77 - doesnt win the game post landwrath
Wipe Away - maiden77 - I already have this effect in the deck. the fact that it is at split second speed doesnt have enough of an effect
Trickbind - maiden77 - makes the deck play like a control deck too much
Laboratory Maniac - PenitentKnight - Enter the Infinite already wins, it doesnt need to take up two slots
Thought Reflection - PenitentKnight - costs too much and doesnt win the game on its own
Arc Blade - PenitentKnight - Not strong enough. It takes turns to do anything significant
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage - PenitentKnight - Not strong enough, plays too much like a control deck
Omniscience - PenitentKnight - this card does not win on its own. it requires another fatty to be in hand.
Time Stop - PenitentKnight - just doesnt do enough, and it costs way too much to be affective
Hive Mind / Pact of Negation / Pact of the Titan - PenitentKnight - You are right that I want a combo in the list, but i decided to run Reset Reiterate Lightning Bolt instead, they are a instant kill and are all fetch-able with Firemind's Foresight . Plus they are each good on their own except reset
Urabrask the Hidden - StevTheRenegade - he is too small a body, and he doesnt win the game when he comes down, in the event of enter the infinite already going off, you should win with the cards already in the deck.
Shivan Sand-Mage / Paradox Haze / Clockspinning were all cut because they were low impact, only changing the clock by a turn or two. I know it is contriversal but I tried running them for about 6 months and was really just let down. I think they were replaced by Muddle the Mixture , and more fatties.
I think you mean Gilded Drake - StevTheRenegade - another card that I have toyed around with. without tutors it is super low impact, and when you need it you dont have it, and when you have it you dont need it. also it makes you want to play like a control deck. but since I added Muddle the Mixture I have been thinking about it more and more.
Blatant Thievery - StevTheRenegade - cannot be played because it doesnt always win especially post land wrath
zandl - i dont get it when you dont like people playing competitive decks against each other. you dont have to play if you dont want to but we are following all the rules.
Caged Sun - vampirelazarus - this is a great ramp spell, but it costs too much to impact the game a ton.
Aeon Chronicler - vampirelazarus - this card is up on my mental list, i was thinking about cutting Kederekt Leviathan for it
Psychosis Crawler - KHAOSANGEL - Enter the Infinite already wins, why change the list to make it win harder
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Exzist - I have put a lot of thought into jace, and this is what I decided, he is an alternate win con, but he plays out like control. for example, my deck is not trying to lock them out of the game by controlling the top card of their lib, and it doesnt particularly need to bounce creatures, it plays giant land wraths for that. really I would just use it for brainstorming, so I added a Brainstorm instead. it costs a lot less and is instant speed
Gamble - Exzist - I played this card for a while too. but in the end i realized that it screwed you over more then it helped. often it got rid of your land you needed, or the card you searched for. and when you use it late game you are often looking at 25-50% odds you won't get the card you want
Desertion - coolman4202 - again this is a good card, but it is very situational. I dont want to play like a control deck and hold this up, and I dont want to suspend it. Really I want my counters to protect my fatties coming off suspend
Cakebatter im not going to address Omniscience again
Skullclamp - PenitentKnight what are you planning on sticking it on?
Detritivore - PenitentKnight it is a good suggestion and I used to run it. but it is not as effective as it looks. and it has to take out your own lands if they dont have any non basics
Inkwell Leviathan - PenitentKnight this used to be in the deck as well. but it just didnt win the game. hitting someone for 7 a turn just isnt good enough.
Academy Ruins - BearCounters this is a good suggestion but it does loose a colored source. which has a bigger impact than you think. plus the man lands are important for killing planeswalkers as well as protecting my own.
Sneak Attack - BearCounters I thought about this one as well. I dont think that hitting someone with a fatty once is enough to win. or warrant a card slot.
Pact of Negation - BearCounters Tolaria West does get pact, but not at instant speed. so it is not a de facto Cancel . also I dont always actually have 5 mana. especially when I am trying to protect a land wrath coming off suspend. and I dont really want to play that much like a control deck
Cryptic Command - KingSorin I think you are being a little overzealous and forgetting that I pick who wins. cryptic will not be in my deck because it is a 4 mana counter I would have to hold up. that is not what i am trying to / or able to do.
Spinerock Knoll - KingSorin this was cut from my list a while ago. usually it just screwed me because I needed an untapped multicolored source. even when it went off it was just win-more
Ill get to the rest soon. Thanks for all the entries
April 16, 2013 10:42 p.m.
MTG_Player says... #6
For winning the game post-wrath I would also offer up: Emrakul, the Aeons Torn <-- far and above the best Jhoira play, (sans Omniscience ).
Spawnsire of Ulamog <-- more sideboard fun.
Windfall as a pseduo-Timetwister
Desolate Lighthouse why not?
Acquire for everyone's favorite colossus
April 16, 2013 11:04 p.m.
PenitentKnight says... #7
Save the trouble and say Emrakul is banned and Omniscience has been suggested to death. On a side note, Manabarbs , seeing as you only need two mana per card and eventually land wrath will run its course.
April 16, 2013 11:07 p.m.
PenitentKnight says... #10
Also, Darksteel Citadel , for the extra leg up post-landwrath.
April 17, 2013 12:38 p.m.
coolman4202 says... #11
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, he can make all of your huge creates again! He also combos with many other cards such as zealous conscripts or deceiver exarch.
Dominus of fealty, he lets you steal the best creatures on the board!
Melek, Izzet Paragon. I know he isn't out yet, but he lets you look at your library and copy all your spells!
Riptide laboratory: Save Jhoira from kill spells, so she doesn't go up in casting cost! You can also use it to save magus of the moon, or take back trinket mage to repeatedly fetch the cards you want.
April 19, 2013 12:52 p.m.
Perhaps a Chromatic Lantern so despite the land wipes you can keep your colors even if you draw a nonbasic that gets hit by Blood Moon could help really bad situations where a game state reset isn't as beneficial as you hoped.
April 22, 2013 3:25 p.m.
I am currently playtesting with proxies of these cards, so if you suggested them get excited (April 24) Timebender for Reiterate , Boseiju, Who Shelters All for Seething Song , Akroma, Angel of Fury for Chain of Vapor , Shivan Sand-Mage again for Firemind's Foresight , Counterspell for Reset , Cyclonic Rift for Lightning Bolt , Acquire for Kederekt Leviathan
April 24, 2013 6:37 p.m.
coolman4202 says... #14
Tidespout Tyrant: Easily comboes with many cards
Palinchron: Comboes with any mana doubler for infinite mana
Warstorm surge: Works ridiculously well with dropping fatties for getting in that damage
Stalking Vengeance: Same as Warstorm surge as well as being a body
April 24, 2013 9:19 p.m.
You need a Paradox Haze , it'll cut your suspend time in half!
April 29, 2013 5:21 p.m.
coolman4202 says... #16
Temple of the false god = Lots of ramp
Dragon Mage = Get cards and a big fatty!
Tidings = It is a solid draw spell and has a pretty textless version!
April 29, 2013 6:28 p.m.
I am currently thinking about playtesting Omniscience , I know I had a hard line against it earlier, but I think it might be ok, especially since most of my wraths dont hit enchantments and I play enough fatties that it is likely i draw one before long.
May 1, 2013 10:22 p.m.
PenitentKnight says... #18
It's fairly suspendable. A very good thing to draw into once you have Jhoira down. Glad I recommended it.
May 1, 2013 10:43 p.m.
The spot it is filling would be Acquire , and im sure it would be pretty good, but im not sure it would be the best. I really want another sorcery "Fatty" printed. They are so so so good. Enter the Infinite and Eternal Dominion are the best fatties in the deck.
May 2, 2013 8:10 a.m.
Ancestral Vision ,, Wheel of Fate ,, Lotus Bloom ,, Memory Jar ,, Planeswalkers remain after a lot of board wipes. I can't believe you replaced Jace, the Mind Sculptor with Brainstorm , LoL. That's like replacing an M249 SAW with a 9mm pistol.
May 2, 2013 5:16 p.m.
Time Reversal ,, Temporal Cascade ,, . . . Show and Tell ,,
May 2, 2013 5:25 p.m.
You cannot hide an M249 SAW under your shirt like you can with a 9mm pistol, and you cant cast a jace on one mana like a brainstorm.
May 2, 2013 11:42 p.m.
Shayne2112 says... #24
I don't mean to be an a$$, or maybe I do, but I read through most of the comments here about your deck before even bothering to look at it, and as far as Jhoira is concerned I do not believe you are doing here justice.
Not only that, I don't see anything post-DM and if you mean to tell me that Ral Zarek isn't worth the stuff you have absolutely no business in this color combination.
May 6, 2013 9:18 p.m.
@Shayne2112 I am going to take a second to address a few key points about your post.
1.) spelling it a$$ doesnt make any sense. are you offended by the word? do you think others are? if so, does spelling it with dollar signs make it have any different effect. or are you afraid of a moderator and couldn't think of any words with more than for letters. here are a few you could have used: idiot, imbecile, simpleton, or cretin.
2.) you are about to make a comment about my poor choices in deck construction, but you shoot down any arguments you are about to make by saying that you have not looked at the decklist. How are you supposed to know that Ral Zarek would not be very good in the deck if you have not looked at it? is he good in every deck in those colors???
3.) "doing here justice" enough said
4.) a deck without a Dragon Maze card in it is not bad by default. I am sure there are a few sets not represented in this 110 card set. I did not see a card in DM that was worth cutting anything for
5.) There is nothing special about these colors. Red is the last color I want to be in. if you looked at the deck you would see that 70% of the cards are blue. I am playing the deck for Jhoira's ability.
In short get lost unless you have something you would like to add to the conversation
Cakebatter says... #1
How about Omniscience ?
April 14, 2013 7:09 p.m.