I know when this combo first was identified with Bloodchief Ascension and Mindcrank I was using the ascension already so I thought "why not lets try it?" in the end I found Mindcrank very unsatisfying because it's a completely useless card on its own. Im working on an artifact heavy version of this that uses Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas as both a catalyst and a distraction. A 5/5 mindcrank creature all of a sudden isn't so useless.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was a great card worth running as a 4-of, but rather some form of damage/life loss combo is good insurance for a deck that's hard to win with consistently. Some kind of infinite mana/Ambassador Laquatus combo would work just as well, but you still have to worry about the Eldrazi gods. Either way, I want to see a good modern mill deck happen. I'm glad that there can be some constructive conversation on the topic.

A question to Formortiis:

What are you trying to prove then? It's something that's been nagging at me. You clearly don't see Mill as even being close to good enough to do anything, so why do you continue to come back here and talk. Wouldn't it just be easier to set it so you can ignore us?

That first comment you posted after I left, you said I was intelligently spamming like a child. I'll take a page out of your book here, if you'll go back and look at the comments, you'll see that I wasn't the one who said that. Are you saying you don't know how to read?

You say that you're middle of the road in how you play at your playgroup? That doesn't even begin to touch on the comment you were "responding" to. He said everybody hated you, not that you were the only one that was competitive. There's a very large difference. Mostly in the fact that you can be competitive and still maintain respect for others. Mostly by encouraging people and suggesting, not calling out "bad" cards and calling them stupid for having them.

The last damn comment you posted? It started out just like every other comment I've seen you post, with you insulting somebody because they had a different opinion than yours. I knew a guy like that. The last time I talked to him, he was being a douche (for the billionth time [clear exaggeration, don't want you calling me out on a technicality here]) and all the rest of my friends got sick of it and told him to get lost. Oh, and before you tell me I'm an ass for "abandoning my friend," he wasn't my friend. He was a leech that stuck to the side of a group that clearly didn't like him and often told him to either stop crossing the line (constant racial slurs to one of us and interrupting debates being chief among them) or we'd tell him to get lost. So guess which happened. In case you're unsure (maybe you have your head too far up your ass from kissing it so much) he was actually so much of a douche he made a very nice young lady cry and leave the room we were in because of the way he was acting.

So guess what, I'm done. I don't like you and I'm sure you don't like me, so I'm done. Sorry, kraken47 and Bandicoot, I shall be unsubscribing from this conversation just as soon as he responds again. As much as I enjoyed it to begin with, it's clear to me that he really can't see that we don't actually want him here.

By the way, let it be known, I play this game for the fun and distractions, not to win. Winning is nice and I have a decent ratio (between my two playgroups and my various decks, it's about half the time), but it isn't everything. When I build a $400 deck on here, it's to share that so someone else can see it and use it for themselves, not because I'm bragging that I was able to buy my victories. Because that's no fun. Not even if I have Final Fantasy music blaring in my thick (yeah, I'll admit it's thick) skull.

ItchiUchiha117 You sir, are a refined gentleman.

ItchiUchiha117 Don't let him run you out, this thread is actually starting to get on topic.

Yeah, I've noticed. And it's certainly gotten a lot more publicity.

ItchiUchiha117 Ya it's gotten a few hundred views since last night.

A lot of those are actually probably me, to be honest. I keep coming back to look at it. I'm being honest here, it's a very nice deck.

ItchiUchiha117 Thanks I'm really trying to make this deck plausible in tournament play.

Oop, now the douche is gonna pick at that and tell you it never will be.

But yeah, I can tell. If Mind Funeral wasn't better, I'd suggest Mind Grind . The Grind is still better than Increasing Confusion , though, at least with the Base effect. Lots more mill for only a little more.

ItchiUchiha117 I'm dropping Increasing Confusion and Curse of the Bloody Tome when my new cards get delivered, hopefully it will be money well spent.

Yeah, I wanna see this do well, too. I actually like the Curse. Even if it doesn't win the game on its own, it can make a deck stall out if you end up milling out their lands. Which is generally what mine end up doing. I still think Sadistic Sacrament is good for sideboarding. Targeted mill is fantastic, even if it's on a 3 for 3 basis, manawise.

You clearly don't see Mill as even being close to good enough to do anything, so why do you continue to come back here and talk.

Simple. Even if I believe mill is bad and unplayable, I accept that there are still people who want to play it. All I do is try to help them make mill the most it can be so that there's a chance they'll actually win using something they love as that's what I see this game being about: Winning using what you love.

That first comment you posted after I left, you said I was intelligently spamming like a child.

No, that applied to the OP and Bandicoot. As far as I can remember right now, you were smart enough to realize that spamming nonsense accomplishes nothing and I commend you for that.

Mostly in the fact that you can be competitive and still maintain respect for others. Mostly by encouraging people and suggesting, not calling out "bad" cards and calling them stupid for having them.

In real life it's easier to be nicer because of the speed of communication and "ease" them into realizing a card is bad. On the internet, there can be hours between comments, so you have to make the most of what you have to say. In real life, I actually am one of the people who will look at someone's deck after I beat them and give them pointers. Most other people wouldn't care which is why they're not here and I am.

He was a leech that stuck to the side of a group that clearly didn't like him and often told him to either stop crossing the line (constant racial slurs to one of us and interrupting debates being chief among them)

We actually have someone like that at our LGS. He's one of the most well liked and respected players there because everyone there has thick enough skin to take a joke (but that is neither here nor there). I'm sure if he were interested in this site, he wouldn't even bother to be constructive the way I have.

The Grind is still better than Increasing Confusion , though, at least with the Base effect. Lots more mill for only a little more.

And do you know what's better than Mind Grind? Traumatize .

Of course Traumatize better. Especially 5th turn. But on turn 10? When most of the deck is already gone? Mind Grind wins.

Now, I shall fulfill my promise. Goodbye.

Oh, and if you think thick skin is the answer to someone constantly slurring an entire race of people and say his is better, you need your fucking head checked.

That's cute. You actually think you'll be alive by the 10th turn to use the Mind Grind.

Formortiis As I said before I've tried Traumatize and it only seems effective against huge decks. By turn 5 when I can play it more than half of the opponent's library should be gone, assuming they don't have an enormous deck.

So? It'll mill more cards than Mind Grind more often than not.

Also by turn 5 your deck is lucky if it can get 20 cards in the opponent's graveyard. I know. I tested it.

Formortiis I'd be lucky to mill 20 cards by turn 5? You tested what? Honestly, have you ever played with or against a mill deck? You don't seem to understand how it works.

Yes I have. I played with yours in fact. Out of 5 games the most your deck was able to mill was 17 cards. If you think this is wrong, then you're welcome to meet me on Cockatrice and see for yourself. My username is Medeus.

Formortiis 17 cards? Cockatrice? You are retards. Please become an hero as quickly as possible.

I can provide video evidence if that's what you desire. Believe me when I say that is the truth.

Formortiis Your sims mean nothing to me. I actually play with this deck. It has become abundantly clear that you have never seen a mill deck in action irl.I'm getting tired of your shit, it's no longer funny. Either contribute or fuck off.

I'm trying to, but you're blatantly ignoring reality. As soon as I can figure out why Camstudio is acting screwy, I will show you a video of your precious deck in action to show you once and for all that much of this stuff you claim it does in "real life" is lies.

Formortiis I don't care about your sims. How can I make it clearer? If you think 17 cards by turn 5 is the most I can get then you don't understand mill. Again fuck off, no one cares about what you have to say on this subject.

I understand plenty. I've seen it myself countless times how slow mill can be. 17 cards in 5 turns isn't unrealistic by any means. You need to stop living in this little fantasy world where you're the only one who knows how to play mill properly because I'm telling you right now you're not.